BBC1 COUNTRYFILE

[Reece]

Hutchie why don't keepers put these new surveillance cameras up to monitor their feed rides & release pens ? that should shed some light on a lot of things ! & tell me I some times can see that things need to be controlled but what right did keepers have to drive a some of our bird species to near extinction years ago ? having trained & flown 2 buzzards years ago I know they can take young rabbits because I have caught them with buzzards . If keepers want to make a point about buzzards & red kites taking poults lets see it on film like the film of the buzz taking an Osprey chick ? . Come on get the cameras out chaps & I cant wait to see the footage on here .

 

Please no comments from internet Trolls when they get home from the pub tonight !

 

I believe monitoring is a large part of the process of licensed buzzard control. They have to prove somehow that damage is being done, but I'm no expert.

While victorian gamekeepers certainly played a major role in the declines of some species, I should point out that raptors were being persecuted for livestock protection before gamekeepers came along.

[Pole Star]

ARE YOU ANTI ,AND NO I DONT THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA VIDEOING ANYTHING AROUND THE PEN

Me an anti !!! no I'm Bill Oddie :lol: ask a stupid question get a silly answer ! what on earth is wrong with some film footage of the real thing ? did you read my post a day or so ago buzzard take osprey chick ? a keeper I know of caught Mr Bill Oddie mooching around his release pen in Norfolk ! if only that was on film & boy would I love to see that on here so we could all have a good laugh ! .

Some cameras monitoring feed rides up & down the country would show the truth a buzzard can not take a full grown pheasant as some n"" heads claim but I am sure some will take pouts so come put it on for all to see then that settles the argument on Red Kites have much smaller feet than a buzz so it would be a eye opener to them take a 6 or 8 wk old poult .

[Reece]

Me an anti !!! no I'm Bill Oddie :lol: ask a stupid question get a silly answer ! what on earth is wrong with some film footage of the real thing ? did you read my post a day or so ago buzzard take osprey chick ? a keeper I know of caught Mr Bill Oddie mooching around his release pen in Norfolk ! if only that was on film & boy would I love to see that on here so we could all have a good laugh ! .

Some cameras monitoring feed rides up & down the country would show the truth a buzzard can not take a full grown pheasant as some n"" heads claim but I am sure some will take pouts so come put it on for all to see then that settles the argument on Red Kites have much smaller feet than a buzz so it would be a eye opener to them take a 6 or 8 wk old poult .

 

As far as I know, buzzards can take adult pheasants, though poults are probably more at risk. They can take rabbits, and pheasant's aren't much bigger. Plus a local farmer has seen them with what look like adult pheasants on one or two occasions. Could be wrong though.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Reece

[sitsinhedges]

Kites and buzzards are as common as crows around here now. The Kites were a real treat a few years back but now they're just like rats after being mass bred by the FC a few miles up the road

[Pole Star]

me an anti ! no I'm Bill Oddie :lol: ask a silly question get a silly answer ! What on earth would be wrong with some real life film footage to settle the argument ? come on chaps get your cameras up on the feed rides up & down the country & see what you might find out or learn will be great to see on PW & just think Country file might even want to put it on !. Did you not see my post Buzzard takes Osprey chick I put up a day or two ago ? a keeper in Norfolk caught Bill Oddie mooching around his release pen so who knows you might even catch him on it & boy would I love to see that on PW . There are some n"" heads who claim buzzards & red kites can take full grown pheasants but that is bull !!!

ARE YOU ANTI ,AND NO I DONT THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA VIDEOING ANYTHING AROUND THE PEN

[Pole Star]

As far as I know, buzzards can take adult pheasants, though poults are probably more at risk. They can take rabbits, and pheasant's aren't much bigger. Plus a local farmer has seen them with what look like adult pheasants on one or two occasions. Could be wrong though.

Who Who ever told you that porky pie ! a trained hawk can take bigger prey than a wild hawk as it has the falconer to make in & help in the preys capture I think the local farmer probably saw a goshawk wich will take a full grown pheasant or buzz or a kite feeding on a dead pheasant . Edited August 19, 2012 by Pole Star

[pigeonblasterian]

A few red kite around me.They have been in East Yorkshire for the last ten years as far as i know of.One pair nests on the same farm every year and i regulary see them along the main road.I have not seen a massive increase in kite numbers but buzzards are all over the place.Peregrine falcons are also more established as well.

[hutchie the white hunter]

Is it just a north of the border thing to get so hysterical about something that MIGHT happen? Between you and Polestar you're giving the antis all the ammunition they'll ever need.

Dont know what you are on about giving the antis all ammo ?because i would never film anything i do be it shooting or fishing ect because that would give them something more to moan about even though i am committing no offence they still would say it is barbaric to keep birds in a pen ect and try to turn things as they always do ( so Thats what i mean about filming) anyway totaly off the original subject !!

[hutchie the white hunter]

me an anti ! no I'm Bill Oddie :lol: ask a silly question get a silly answer ! What on earth would be wrong with some real life film footage to settle the argument ? come on chaps get your cameras up on the feed rides up & down the country & see what you might find out or learn will be great to see on PW & just think Country file might even want to put it on !. Did you not see my post Buzzard takes Osprey chick I put up a day or two ago ? a keeper in Norfolk caught Bill Oddie mooching around his release pen so who knows you might even catch him on it & boy would I love to see that on PW . There are some n"" heads who claim buzzards & red kites can take full grown pheasants but that is bull !!!

ok i know your not an anti ,It was just the way you were talking (WHAT RIGHT DID THE KEEPERS HAVE)

Edited August 20, 2012 by hutchie the white hunter

[m3vert]

Hutchie I think your arguement is wrong m8

 

For now lets stay with your argument that they will take your poults from the release pens and will become a nuisance, if that happens its tough I am afraid! You are running a sporting business and it has been agreed by the powers that be the Red Kite will be reintroduced! It is a native species and just because shooters/keepers/whoever decided to kill them all many years ago does not mean that you now have more rights than the Red Kite! Protect your pens from them if they are an issue, once released your birds will be too big for any Red Kite and thats pretty much fact m8

 

Ok now let me say that I think the above is rubbish and you are likely to lose very little if any Poults to the Red Kites! What you might lose is the odd dead bird! I am pretty sure that in the "olden days" of raptor persecution that keepers etc would shoot and kill any known raptors and they didnt really give a toss if it was having an impact or not on their business! They shot regardless which is why we lost so many birds and some like the Red Kite were eliminated!!

 

Pop up to Gleneagles and watch the numbers of Red Kites in the area, I think you will find a rather expensive game shoot in this area that seems to manage perfectly fine despite the large numbers of this bird being in place!

 

I agree that you are entitled to your opinion but I must ask just how much information you have gleened studying these magnificent birds in the field and how much have you picked up by reading on the internet?? I know where my knowledge comes from Im interested to know which area in Scotland you are from? There is already a very healthy population of these birds in Central Scotland All the best

[poontang]

,because THEY KILL GAME BIRDS !!!!

 

So do men with guns.

[sako751sg]

Have a word with Polestar fella,and I'm sure he can sort you oot with a few trigger happy Italians to keep the numbers down. Everyone will be happy then,the Italians get some shooting,Polestar gets to post complaints about them shooting kites and you get less kites.

[gixer1]

W I wouldn't say we are overrun with kites up here - buzzards, yes ...but kites - not yet...

 

Just my opinion, and I have to say I personally have never seen a lite take a poult , again a buzzard, yes (anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves) but if I have never seen a kite take a poult up here then it can't be that regular an occourance...

 

I can't commont on the rest of the uk, only the area I am in...

 

Regards,

Gixer

[Reece]

Who Who ever told you that porky pie ! a trained hawk can take bigger prey than a wild hawk as it has the falconer to make in & help in the preys capture I think the local farmer probably saw a goshawk wich will take a full grown pheasant or buzz or a kite feeding on a dead pheasant .

 

If buzzards can't take adult pheasants then it must have been a fairly well grown poult and not an adult pheasant. I always go up there to check squirrel traps and I have seen and heard a buzzard on several occasions, and so has the farmer. No sign of anything else yet, except a few kestrels.

[Robin128]

Wonder where all the garden birds are going?

[GRamsay]

Wonder where all the garden birds are going?

I,m Sure cats will be taking there share of garden birds

[al4x]

Its an interesting one and when you are in an area with plenty then the impact they have on other wildlife is pretty pronounced, watch a kite or buzzard on stubble and everything else heads for cover, where I think they do damage on our ground is to grey partridges and leverets particularly the buzzards. Seeing a few is indeed nice but when you look round on a sunny day and can count 20 working the thermals about you do realise there are a few about. Drive down the M40 from Oxford to the M25 and you will be staggered how many you see, as for Polestar trail cams round release pens there is one failing in your logic, they get tripped all the time by the pheasants which are about. We can't even check for foxes about unless we like wading through thousands of pictures of poults

[Pole Star]

I believe monitoring is a large part of the process of licensed buzzard control. They have to prove somehow that damage is being done, but I'm no expert.

While victorian gamekeepers certainly played a major role in the declines of some species, I should point out that raptors were being persecuted for livestock protection before gamekeepers came along.

From where I sit at my computer & write this I see on most days a pair of hen harriers & short eared owls working my fields & as I have hens with chicks running about I always keep a close eye on then when they come close to my cottage & so far I have not seen either the Hen Harriers or the Short Eared try to have ago & these predators come very close to my house & just the other day as I was in my car out side my house I had a Merlin sat on chimney how good is that ? even better still early this year I had a merlin snatch a meadow pipit so close to where I sit now I I heard the whack when it snatched poor old Pip ! clean out of the air !.

 

If Buzzards need control get the proof on film so even Bill Oddie can chew the carpet with rage ! if you cant get it on film Buzzard control is a lost cause !.

No sign of Bill Oddie in my fields yet but If I catch him he will get the boot right to roam or not :lol: :lol: .

Edited August 20, 2012 by Pole Star

[Pole Star]

Its an interesting one and when you are in an area with plenty then the impact they have on other wildlife is pretty pronounced, watch a kite or buzzard on stubble and everything else heads for cover, where I think they do damage on our ground is to grey partridges and leverets particularly the buzzards. Seeing a few is indeed nice but when you look round on a sunny day and can count 20 working the thermals about you do realise there are a few about. Drive down the M40 from Oxford to the M25 and you will be staggered how many you see, as for Polestar trail cams round release pens there is one failing in your logic, they get tripped all the time by the pheasants which are about. We can't even check for foxes about unless we like wading through thousands of pictures of poults

Under stand your point al4x but I am sure there is a way to get good worth while film footage up & down the country to prove a point .

ATB . Pole Star

PS your must have seen the large numbers of Red Kites circling over Stokenchurch ? I under stand from mates that lived there that some one is feeding them via their back garden

Edited August 20, 2012 by Pole Star

[Fisherman Mike]

Ive stayed out of this until now but I thought it was a very good programme.

 

I hope that one day the native aboriginal species such as Red Kite, Buzzard, Osprey and Sea Eagle will outnumber the Introduced species like the Pheasant, Red Legged Partridge, Chukar, and Canada Goose.

 

Bloody pheasants introduced from Asia and now the damn things are everywhere

 

Red Kites and Buzzards are predominantly carrion feeders but will take young mammals and chicks. But then again so will almost every native BOP, Owl and some corvidae in the UK.

 

Us bird watchers owe a great debt to the rearers of these invasive non residents which provide a food source for our native fauna....well done superb effort.

 

Red Kites infact were extremely common birds in Medievel times as common as crows, pigeons and seagulls are now. Although they were persecuted by Game breeders to protect the Introduced non native species...Their decline was actually more due to the invention of proper sanitation and waste disposal.

 

Oh and by the way Black Grouse, and Capercaille have been successfully reintroduced in to parts of Northern Britian absent in decline presumably because you shot them all.

 

Game breeders will have to change with the times and redevelop the release strategy and ways of Poult protection because there is no way that the 95% of the British bird loving public will ever allow native birds to be shot or destroyed in favour of a bird bred specifically to be Killed ( and in the main not eaten).

 

From my experience some rearers release the poults too early, presumably so that they are as wild and as free flying as possible and offer the most challenging shots to paying guns.

 

A Red kite or Buzzard on stubble is usually looking for Earthworms or Voles...unless theres any late nesting Pheasants or partridges of course.

[Dunkield]

Drive down the M40 from Oxford to the M25 and you will be staggered how many you see

Slap bang in the middle of about the most densely populated partridge and pheasant shooting areas of southern England.

Kites live very well off road kill, if there isn't enough to feed on they move further afield, which is exactly what are doing now.

[Scully]

No Red Kites around here(Eden Valley Pennines)but loads further north when you get to Dumfries and Galloway where they are a major tourist attraction.We do have a lot of Buzzards,but I couldn't really say whether they're taking our birds or not;(although I did see one attacking a fully grown Curlew the other week)but I've never witnessed it.

As I've said before,the only experience I've had with Buzzards was most disappointing from a hunting point of view;the American red-tailed Kite and especially the Harris' Hawks were devastating on rabbits,but the Buzzard would just circle for a while,land in a tree and wait for the rabbit to die of old age.

What annoys me about the entire issue regarding Buzzards and game birds,is that there was a golden opportunity to settle the issue once and for all;meaning the study proposed by DEFRA recently,which the RSPB and other anti organisations put the mockers on.If,like the RSPB claims,Buzzards do not predate gamebirds,what had they to lose by allowing the study to go ahead?No birds or eggs were going to be destroyed during the study,so what objection could they possibly have?They could have once and for all stuck two fingers up at the gamekeepers and shooting organisations when they(the RSPB) were proved right.So why did they create such a sensational media campaign to have the study stopped?

[Pole Star]

Ive stayed out of this until now but I thought it was a very good programme.

 

I hope that one day the native aboriginal species such as Red Kite, Buzzard, Osprey and Sea Eagle will outnumber the Introduced species like the Pheasant, Red Legged Partridge, Chukar, and Canada Goose.

 

Bloody pheasants introduced from Asia and now the damn things are everywhere

 

Red Kites and Buzzards are predominantly carrion feeders but will take young mammals and chicks. But then again so will almost every native BOP, Owl and some corvidae in the UK.

 

Us bird watchers owe a great debt to the rearers of these invasive non residents which provide a food source for our native fauna....well done superb effort.

 

Red Kites infact were extremely common birds in Medievel times as common as crows, pigeons and seagulls are now. Although they were persecuted by Game breeders to protect the Introduced non native species...Their decline was actually more due to the invention of proper sanitation and waste disposal.

 

Oh and by the way Black Grouse, and Capercaille have been successfully reintroduced in to parts of Northern Britian absent in decline presumably because you shot them all.

 

Game breeders will have to change with the times and redevelop the release strategy and ways of Poult protection because there is no way that the 95% of the British bird loving public will ever allow native birds to be shot or destroyed in favour of a bird bred specifically to be Killed ( and in the main not eaten).

 

From my experience some rearers release the poults too early, presumably so that they are as wild and as free flying as possible and offer the most challenging shots to paying guns.

 

A Red kite or Buzzard on stubble is usually looking for Earthworms or Voles...unless theres any late nesting Pheasants or partridges of course.

Quick Mike ! HELMET ! FLACK JACKET ! & TAKE COVER ! SALVO'S ON THE WAY ! GOOD LUCK ! :lol:

[Reece]

Ive stayed out of this until now but I thought it was a very good programme.

 

I hope that one day the native aboriginal species such as Red Kite, Buzzard, Osprey and Sea Eagle will outnumber the Introduced species like the Pheasant, Red Legged Partridge, Chukar, and Canada Goose.

 

Bloody pheasants introduced from Asia and now the damn things are everywhere

 

Red Kites and Buzzards are predominantly carrion feeders but will take young mammals and chicks. But then again so will almost every native BOP, Owl and some corvidae in the UK.

 

Us bird watchers owe a great debt to the rearers of these invasive non residents which provide a food source for our native fauna....well done superb effort.

 

Red Kites infact were extremely common birds in Medievel times as common as crows, pigeons and seagulls are now. Although they were persecuted by Game breeders to protect the Introduced non native species...Their decline was actually more due to the invention of proper sanitation and waste disposal.

 

Oh and by the way Black Grouse, and Capercaille have been successfully reintroduced in to parts of Northern Britian absent in decline presumably because you shot them all.

 

Game breeders will have to change with the times and redevelop the release strategy and ways of Poult protection because there is no way that the 95% of the British bird loving public will ever allow native birds to be shot or destroyed in favour of a bird bred specifically to be Killed ( and in the main not eaten).

 

From my experience some rearers release the poults too early, presumably so that they are as wild and as free flying as possible and offer the most challenging shots to paying guns.

 

A Red kite or Buzzard on stubble is usually looking for Earthworms or Voles...unless theres any late nesting Pheasants or partridges of course.

 

How are pheasants an "invasive" species? Not all non native species are invasive.

 

Black grouse and capercaille declined mostly because of habitat loss, not because of shooting. Most of the remaining black grouse are on shooting estates.

 

How exactly are game birds "in the main not eaten"? Virtually all shot birds are eaten later.

 

The public don't seem to care much about killing stoats and foxes to protect game, at least not to the same extent they do for raptors. No one cares about killing cormorants to protect fish stocks.

 

Buzzards will eat whatever they find, whether it's a vole, a rabbit or a pheasant.

 

No Red Kites around here(Eden Valley Pennines)but loads further north when you get to Dumfries and Galloway where they are a major tourist attraction.We do have a lot of Buzzards,but I couldn't really say whether they're taking our birds or not;(although I did see one attacking a fully grown Curlew the other week)but I've never witnessed it.

As I've said before,the only experience I've had with Buzzards was most disappointing from a hunting point of view;the American red-tailed Kite and especially the Harris' Hawks were devastating on rabbits,but the Buzzard would just circle for a while,land in a tree and wait for the rabbit to die of old age.

What annoys me about the entire issue regarding Buzzards and game birds,is that there was a golden opportunity to settle the issue once and for all;meaning the study proposed by DEFRA recently,which the RSPB and other anti organisations put the mockers on.If,like the RSPB claims,Buzzards do not predate gamebirds,what had they to lose by allowing the study to go ahead?No birds or eggs were going to be destroyed during the study,so what objection could they possibly have?They could have once and for all stuck two fingers up at the gamekeepers and shooting organisations when they(the RSPB) were proved right.So why did they create such a sensational media campaign to have the study stopped?

 

They used the opportunity to get some publicity and money, and the antis used it as a topical hook to attack shooting yet again, even though lethal control had not even been mentioned.

[hutchie the white hunter]

Hutchie I think your arguement is wrong m8

 

For now lets stay with your argument that they will take your poults from the release pens and will become a nuisance, if that happens its tough I am afraid! You are running a sporting business and it has been agreed by the powers that be the Red Kite will be reintroduced! It is a native species and just because shooters/keepers/whoever decided to kill them all many years ago does not mean that you now have more rights than the Red Kite! Protect your pens from them if they are an issue, once released your birds will be too big for any Red Kite and thats pretty much fact m8

 

Ok now let me say that I think the above is rubbish and you are likely to lose very little if any Poults to the Red Kites! What you might lose is the odd dead bird! I am pretty sure that in the "olden days" of raptor persecution that keepers etc would shoot and kill any known raptors and they didnt really give a toss if it was having an impact or not on their business! They shot regardless which is why we lost so many birds and some like the Red Kite were eliminated!!

 

Pop up to Gleneagles and watch the numbers of Red Kites in the area, I think you will find a rather expensive game shoot in this area that seems to manage perfectly fine despite the large numbers of this bird being in place!

 

I agree that you are entitled to your opinion but I must ask just how much information you have gleened studying these magnificent birds in the field and how much have you picked up by reading on the internet?? I know where my knowledge comes from Im interested to know which area in Scotland you are from? There is already a very healthy population of these birds in Central Scotland All the best

Thats ok for big shoots that release thousands of birds but what about your 300/400 bird diy shoots the loss could be catastrophic!,also i have not studied these birds intricately i have just seen a huge rise in numbers over the years everywhere including in and around Perth where i also have permission and talk to people around that area (gamekeepers that actually know what they are talking about and would tell you different) !! also how do you know what damage they could cause if they are already causing damage just now, what will it be like when they are just as common as the buzzard that does do damaged thats why they in some areas are asking for permission to reduce numbers in avian predictors BECAUSE THEY DO HARM !

Edited August 20, 2012 by hutchie the white hunter