Bloke Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 I have always thought that it is impossible for us as people to except death if you do not believe that life goes on after death then there is nothing and that is the real problem how can a person who was so full of life suddenly sees to exist like switching a light out. Instead even if we do not believe in god we have to believe that somehow something dose go on otherwise everything has been all for nothing. How many among us go to visit our loved ones graves and take flowers if we really believe that they no longer exist why do we do it just to impress other people I think not it is hope. While I fully respect your views and admire your beliefs, I personally firmly believe that the opposite is true, otherwise I will be having some serious words with the person in charge when I get there. If I believed in an afterlife, then I would have to believe in a god, and any god who allows good people to die and bad people to live has some explaining to do. I believe that when you die, you die, but that does not mean that everything has been for nothing.The good we do lives on, in our children, our friends, and anything we have made or taken part in, in their memories of us and our effect on others, the old saying that 'We are not dead while there is still someone alive who remembers us and what we have done'. I do not visit the graves of my wife or family, or take flowers etc, as I do not believe they are there, it is just where their remains are, however I fully accept that for many people, a grave site becomes a focus for grief, to allow them to let their emotions go and to give them a definitive place to remember a person, and for those who believe in a divine being, it provides a resting place until the day of resurrection - everyone to their own beliefs. I am not cynical, it is just that after 30 years of Nursing and having seen far too many deaths to believe in any form of afterlife, I feel that for some people it is a way of reducing their fear of death, by believing there is something more, and for others it can be an excuse not to live life to the full, because we can always 'have another go'. For others it can be a way of reducing their pain of loss and separation, by believing they will meet the person again. Doesn't work for me, I celebrate my loved ones lives and actions every day I draw breath, and try to fully enjoy life on their behalf. Sorry,no offence meant at all, just my take on things, I really sincerely hope that for those who believe, their wishes come true. A heavy subject indeed. All the best and long life to all out there in PW land! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 It would be like us looking into a bucket of yeast and mash - the yeast consumes all the available sugar until it dies from its' own excreta ( alcohol ). Do you truthfully and honestly believe that? I mean the first bit not the last, bucket of yeast and mash? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkill Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 is to grow up smoke drink and plant your seeds , then once done we get the rest of life to lie back and relax A quote i heard once which i stick by is ... The Universe is vast and we are so small. There is really only one thing we can ever truly control... whether we are good or evil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humperdingle Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Really, what is your basis for that? 78% of all statistics are made up on the spot... Surely you knew that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 While I fully respect your views and admire your beliefs, I personally firmly believe that the opposite is true, otherwise I will be having some serious words with the person in charge when I get there. If I believed in an afterlife, then I would have to believe in a god, and any god who allows good people to die and bad people to live has some explaining to do. I believe that when you die, you die, but that does not mean that everything has been for nothing.The good we do lives on, in our children, our friends, and anything we have made or taken part in, in their memories of us and our effect on others, the old saying that 'We are not dead while there is still someone alive who remembers us and what we have done'. I do not visit the graves of my wife or family, or take flowers etc, as I do not believe they are there, it is just where their remains are, however I fully accept that for many people, a grave site becomes a focus for grief, to allow them to let their emotions go and to give them a definitive place to remember a person, and for those who believe in a divine being, it provides a resting place until the day of resurrection - everyone to their own beliefs. I am not cynical, it is just that after 30 years of Nursing and having seen far too many deaths to believe in any form of afterlife, I feel that for some people it is a way of reducing their fear of death, by believing there is something more, and for others it can be an excuse not to live life to the full, because we can always 'have another go'. For others it can be a way of reducing their pain of loss and separation, by believing they will meet the person again. Doesn't work for me, I celebrate my loved ones lives and actions every day I draw breath, and try to fully enjoy life on their behalf. Sorry,no offence meant at all, just my take on things, I really sincerely hope that for those who believe, their wishes come true. A heavy subject indeed. All the best and long life to all out there in PW land! Good post. I agree with your point about God in the sense of a personal God and the teachings of scripture but if you consider God as just the creator of the universe with no interest in mankind then the same does not hold. I'm not advocating belief in God or dis-belief just putting a different more abstract notion of God out there. It would be God in an abstract non personal sense and somewhat more aligned with pantheist ideals of mother nature on the universal scale rather than just planet earth. In a nut shell why would something responsible for creating the universe give a hoot about something as insignificant as mankind let alone individual human beings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 ...If I believed in an afterlife, then I would have to believe in a god, and any god who allows good people to die and bad people to live has some explaining to do... From a Christian viewpoint - If we use a reductionist principle along the same lines, why is there any suffering at all? A caring God would either stop me from stubbing my toe or make the hard object soft surely? We are given free will and as such we have to get on with what ever comes our way and our behaviour and belief is what matters. In a nut shell why would something responsible for creating the universe give a hoot about something as insignificant as mankind let alone individual human beings. Or we could ask why would a God create something at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper3 Posted August 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 I think the logic ..we didn't know anything before we were born and we will no nothing after is spot on........ maybe we are just living compost :hmm:food for the next species to evolve No disrespect to anyone... but lets forget the God theory ..the earth was well occupied by other species before man came along , fossils have proven that... I am not saying dismiss your god, but just for the sake of the debate,/ discussion I think the graveside visits and this is my thoughts only..are a built in comfort thing... some will go as a natural respect to keep alive the memories of the person , who more than likely was a massive influence to them in their lives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 While I fully respect your views and admire your beliefs, I personally firmly believe that the opposite is true, otherwise I will be having some serious words with the person in charge when I get there. If I believed in an afterlife, then I would have to believe in a god, and any god who allows good people to die and bad people to live has some explaining to do. I believe that when you die, you die, but that does not mean that everything has been for nothing.The good we do lives on, in our children, our friends, and anything we have made or taken part in, in their memories of us and our effect on others, the old saying that 'We are not dead while there is still someone alive who remembers us and what we have done'. I do not visit the graves of my wife or family, or take flowers etc, as I do not believe they are there, it is just where their remains are, however I fully accept that for many people, a grave site becomes a focus for grief, to allow them to let their emotions go and to give them a definitive place to remember a person, and for those who believe in a divine being, it provides a resting place until the day of resurrection - everyone to their own beliefs. I am not cynical, it is just that after 30 years of Nursing and having seen far too many deaths to believe in any form of afterlife, I feel that for some people it is a way of reducing their fear of death, by believing there is something more, and for others it can be an excuse not to live life to the full, because we can always 'have another go'. For others it can be a way of reducing their pain of loss and separation, by believing they will meet the person again. Doesn't work for me, I celebrate my loved ones lives and actions every day I draw breath, and try to fully enjoy life on their behalf. Sorry,no offence meant at all, just my take on things, I really sincerely hope that for those who believe, their wishes come true. A heavy subject indeed. All the best and long life to all out there in PW land! I think that you have put that very well, I am afraid that I am one of those people who have never been able to get my head around religion and gods as Dr Spock would say it is not logical. Having said that in many ways I do admire people who can believe in god and an after life it must be good when someone you now dies to think that you will see them again one day. Also Hindus and some other religions they believe that you come back again to live another life and so on until you have worked through all of your problems when you are finally allowed in to heaven so it looks like I have got a lot more life's to look forward to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 In a Godless universe there is no reason to be anything other than self centred, just like the animals. There may be some benefits in social groupings but essentially making sure you get and no-one else does fits evolution principles better than looking out for those who are social outcasts, yet we still do, even those who do not believe in a God(s). four-wheel-drive - Sorry to burst your bubble but if the person who dies is not a believer then you won`t see them and even some religions do not believe in any form of afterlife. Also the fact that the whole universe burst into being from nothing is another Dr.Spock moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Or we could ask why would a God create something at all? Agreed. Care to attempt an answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) In a Godless universe there is no reason to be anything other than self centred, just like the animals. There may be some benefits in social groupings but essentially making sure you get and no-one else does fits evolution principles better than looking out for those who are social outcasts, yet we still do, even those who do not believe in a God(s). four-wheel-drive - Sorry to burst your bubble but if the person who dies is not a believer then you won`t see them and even some religions do not believe in any form of afterlife. Also the fact that the whole universe burst into being from nothing is another Dr.Spock moment. I will have you now that I am not a believer in any gods or an after life for that matter but one thing I will say is if it should turn out that there is a god and I am not allowed in heaven. I will be giving him/her a good taking to as I may not believe in god but I have never knowingly done anything to hurt another person in my whole life which is more that most of the so called believer can say. Edited August 29, 2012 by four-wheel-drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bavarianbrit Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 I always tend to think as science teaches us that matter cannot be destroyed then we are just reassembled as worm,deer, fox, slug etc and so it goes on. Just my take on it all. Could never understand why so many make religeon a business (fact is you cannot become president of the USA without declaring "i"m a believer" like Micky Dolenz). Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) Agreed. Care to attempt an answer? Love, purely and simply, which is basically what "IT" is all about in the OP as far as I am concerned. To be loved and to love is what it is all about, and I love you all (except for Evil Elvis) :wub: Edited August 29, 2012 by henry d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C00KIE Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) 42, is the answer. Strictly speaking it's the answer to life, the universe and everything. So pretty much covers meanings and all. So long and thanks for all the fish !!!! You know what i mean if you're of the same mind as me !! Edited August 29, 2012 by C00KIE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 42, is the answer. Yeah but what's the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 (edited) I will have you now that I am not a believer in any gods or an after life for that matter but one thing I will say is if it should turn out that there is a god and I am not allowed in heaven. I will be giving him/her a good taking to as I may not believe in god but I have never knowingly done anything to hurt another person in my whole life which is more that most of the so called believer can say. You are indeed a unique human. I however have intentionally hurt people and may have been instrumental in killing many, yet I know I am forgiven, it is open to all though. Anyway, must dash as I have to share the love, laters! Edited August 29, 2012 by henry d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper3 Posted August 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 the question is what is the meaning of life..the answer is 42...... in my book that translates to sweet and sour chicken balls hong kong style Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasper3 Posted August 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 if we take this debate back to...before man..... what was the reason for dinosaurs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 In a Godless universe there is no reason to be anything other than self centred, just like the animals. Not sure I agree. Nothing suggests to me that a devout atheist is any more self centred than a deeply religious person or in any way more morally bankrupt or less morally evolved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 if we take this debate back to...before man..... what was the reason for dinosaurs ? Too much detail, just abstract to the cosmological constants (laws of nature) and existence of our sun and the location of planet earth. Everything else follows from there based on Darwinian theory. Well nearly everything anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Love, purely and simply, which is basically what "IT" is all about in the OP as far as I am concerned. To be loved and to love is what it is all about, and I love you all (except for Evil Elvis) :wub: Umm, do do you entertain that the likes of brevik need our love too. Ps - I'm actually rather fond of the real person that lies behind the evil elvis one line persona. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Umm, do do you entertain that the likes of brevik need our love too. Ps - I'm actually rather fond of the real person that lies behind the evil elvis one line persona. Me too, it was tongue in cheek Breivik, Dahmer, Nilsen, Hitler, Stalin...... Yeah absolutely, all need(ed) to be loved and prayed for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 In a Godless universe there is no reason to be anything other than self centred, just like the animals. Good point,but in my opinion this works both ways.History records many instances of atrocities in the name of one God or another doesn't it?And it's still going on today. I know from experience just how fragile and brief life can be;I don't want to waste what little time I have by fighting with other people because they're of a different religion or keeping up with the Jones', or living the selfish existence of the 'I'm alright jack' mindset.Life is just too short for that sort of ****.Whether you believe or not,just get out there and rejoice in the fact you're here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 Do you truthfully and honestly believe that? I mean the first bit not the last, bucket of yeast and mash? Can you see anything different happening long-term ? We've had a long time, a plentiful time, to learn how to prevent war and hunger. We haven't even got close, do you expect this to change as the population increases and natural resources are consumed ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 T. M. O. Life, Is to outrun the lions!!! If were Zebras, most of us would be dead now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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