Is much accuracy lost with semi-auto .22lr compared to bolt action?

[jam1e]

A quick question folks.

Is much accuracy lost when going from the bolt action .22lr to a semi-auto?

I don't mean between certain brands and models but generally speaking?

Genuine replies appreciated

[yankeedoodlepigeon]

Yes

[Paddy Galore!]

in general, yes. the temptation to empty the mag into a target is just too much to resist sometimes

however, the best semi i ever owned was an anschutz 525, this would put bullet on bullet if i behaved myself. my buckmark isn't too bad but i don't use it for longer range stuff.

[Sm0kah]

All depends on which semi auto you want and how much you want to spend.

[station]

So are people saying that a semi is simply not as accurate as a bolt action rifle ?

 

For example - both guns mounted on bipods will group differently even if the same time, method and practice is used ?

 

I agree the temptation is to shoot faster with a semi and therefore some accuracy goes out of the window.

 

Interested in answers to this - cheers

[.philmypower.]

I have both and my bolt action is alot more accurate than the semi, it has a tighter grouping and a more consistent shot

[cockercas]

Semi autos are only an advantage if you are going to get shots at 4 5 6 rabbits. I have both. Only use the auto when I need to take mutipal rabbits quickly. And yes you do tend to just empty the mag.

[bedwards1966]

I think it's simply that as some of the gas is used to cycle the action there is less to push the bullet, reducing the velocity.

I'm sure most semi's shoot fairly accurately, and no doubt it depends on what they are being used for as to whether the reduced accuracy is even measurable.

 

But yes, they aren't quite as accurate - but I don't really know how much difference it normally makes.

It would be interesting to put a few different guns (semi's and bolts) over a chronograph, and see how different they are.

Personally, for field shooting, I'd never opt for a semi as they are less practical to use safely; bolt actions are quick enough to use, and far better from a safety angle.

[station]

I have both and my bolt action is alot more accurate than the semi, it has a tighter grouping and a more consistent shot

 

But, is this a £800 annie bolt action against a lesser quality £300 semi ?

 

If both rifles were of similar quality - as in match barrels, decent ammo to suit each barrel etc, would there still be a noticeable lack of accuracy from the semi compared to the bolt ?

[39TDS]

Very occasionally the first shot will hit the target.

This isn't relevant as you will just empty the mag anyway.

[jam1e]

But, is this a £800 annie bolt action against a lesser quality £300 semi ?

 

If both rifles were of similar quality - as in match barrels, decent ammo to suit each barrel etc, would there still be a noticeable lack of accuracy from the semi compared to the bolt ?

 

That was my thinking station. If all was as equal in quality and guns as much as could possibly be. I presumed the semi-auto would lose out to accuracy due to the cycling of the action alone?

Bedwards1966, I didn't realise the average .22lr semi lost out on performance due to "gas cycling". I thought they used just recoil to cycle the next round

[jam1e]

That was my thinking station. If all was as equal in quality and guns as much as could possibly be. I presumed the semi-auto would lose out to accuracy due to the cycling of the action alone?

Bedwards1966, It's a fair point with the safety angle. I also didn't realise the average .22lr semi lost out on performance due to "gas cycling". I thought they used just recoil to cycle the next round

[Hamster]

I believe the reasons are combination of factors. The bolt movement done by hand tends to be slow and deliberate whereas with a semi it's over and one in a nano second which can mark the bullet head, the shuffle of the semi also upsets the sight picture a tiny bit compared to a bolt action. Semi's are traditionally built as cheap guns so they tend to have average barrels and poor triggers.

[station]

I believe the reasons are combination of factors. The bolt movement done by hand tends to be slow and deliberate whereas with a semi it's over and one in a nano second which can mark the bullet head, the shuffle of the semi also upsets the sight picture a tiny bit compared to a bolt action. Semi's are traditionally built as cheap guns so they tend to have average barrels and poor triggers.

 

I understand where you are coming from with this Hamster - the cycling is fast so could possibly mark the bullet head as it is chambered.

 

As for Bedwards1966 and the point of power loss - I have bolt action .22's and one semi, but I also have access to quite a few other bolt action and semi .22's

I will try and find time to chrono a few and see what results I get using the same batch of ammo (got access to a few thousand from the same batch rated at 1065 fps).

 

Cheers ATB

[Gimlet]

 

 

I didn't realise the average .22lr semi lost out on performance due to "gas cycling". I thought they used just recoil to cycle the next round

 

They do. But recoil is caused by gas expansion. With so little force available in a .22 rimfire cartridge, the proportion of expanding gases permitted to travel backwards by the energy-absorbant reloading mechanism measurably reduces the energy available to propel the bullet. Self-loading mechanisms, whether gas or mechanical, reduce available muzzle energy in centre-fire military weapons too, but with so much more energy available in the first place it makes little real-world difference. Some .22 semis don't like subs. I had a Krico semi years ago. It was an accurate rifle as far as it went, but unreliable with subs. I had to use Winchester lazers to get dependable cycling which were noisy and inherently less accurate than the very stable subs, which defeats the object.

It was a good quality rifle and good fun to shoot but I wouldn't buy another semi unless for plinking.

Unfortunately rabbits are not so obliging as to line up waiting to be knocked over like ducks at a fair.

[Amazed]

I was always told by my grandad that the semis were always going to be less accurate, as the action is already moving backwards in the gun before the bullet has left the muzzle and some of the energy is used to blow this action backwards,

I have stayed clear because of this. But the kid in me still wants one having owned my own in the field not on the range I would be tempted to say it really wouldn't count for much having the edge on accuracy over the ability to fire of multiple shots not having taken your eye off the target. So really what you need to ask your self is what do you want the gun for. Field or target ?

[Fisheruk]

I have both and my bolt action is alot more accurate than the semi, it has a tighter grouping and a more consistent shot

+1

[1066]

I have both - my bolt rifle is an ex Russian target rifle so as you would expect it is fairly accurate. My semi-auto is a Voere which has the ability to be used as a semi-auto or the breech can be locked to work as a bolt rifle. The Voere has a good quality barrel and I really can't tell the difference in group sizes with locked breech or semi-auto.

 

My bolt rifle is a little more accurate but then you would expect it to be. It has a match type trigger and a heavy barrel and was made to be accurate.

 

I have shot the same ammunition through both over the chrony and if you do loose any velocity it really isn't much. The last batch of Eley subs I tested were well under the 1065 stated on the box, more like 1025-1040.

 

So - Accuracy, inconclusive, depends on the barrel and what can be expected from HP subs.

 

Velocity - inconclusive but not enough to have any practical effect.

 

Wanting to empty the mag or safety factors are down to the shooter.

 

The bolt and the Vorere with locked breech are possibly quieter with the mod than the semi-auto.

[Vince Green]

There is nothing to say one should be more accurate than the other, a barrel is a barrel. The action should have no bearing on the accuracy because even with an auto the bullet should be long gone before the action opens.

In reality the semis struggle very hard to keep up even with custom barrels and all the extras Most people when talking about semi autos these days mean 10/22s and they will never keep up, but they are a lot more fun

Edited September 17, 2012 by Vince Green

[station]

I have both - my bolt rifle is an ex Russian target rifle so as you would expect it is fairly accurate. My semi-auto is a Voere which has the ability to be used as a semi-auto or the breech can be locked to work as a bolt rifle. The Voere has a good quality barrel and I really can't tell the difference in group sizes with locked breech or semi-auto.

 

My bolt rifle is a little more accurate but then you would expect it to be. It has a match type trigger and a heavy barrel and was made to be accurate.

 

I have shot the same ammunition through both over the chrony and if you do loose any velocity it really isn't much. The last batch of Eley subs I tested were well under the 1065 stated on the box, more like 1025-1040.

 

So - Accuracy, inconclusive, depends on the barrel and what can be expected from HP subs.

 

Velocity - inconclusive but not enough to have any practical effect.

 

Wanting to empty the mag or safety factors are down to the shooter.

 

The bolt and the Vorere with locked breech are possibly quieter with the mod than the semi-auto.

 

Good post, and info - cheers 1066

[Gregthegreat]

"Is much accuracy lost when going from the bolt action .22lr to a semi-auto?" The answer would be definately be no. The key word being "much".

 

In practical terms, what is accuracy? Is it placing successive shot-on-shot (grouping) or the ability to be able to engage an individual target with one round?

 

There's another side to this that hasn't been mentioned. If grouping is to be applied then a semi will enable the average shooter to achieve a good group with minimal fuss when compared to a bolt action rifle. As the key to grouping is consistency in all shots in that group (once correct position, natural alignment, sight picture and trigger control have been achieved) with a bolt action rifle the shooter must cycle the action themselves therefore creating disturbance of the position through movement of the hand and arm. This will to some extent (depending on the skill of the shooter) affect the position through disturbance of elbow position, hand placement, grip and trigger control and possibly eye relief and sight picture through any disturbance of the head position.

 

A semi can enable the shooter to achieve minimal disturbance from shot to shot as no movement in position is necessary.

 

The same is also true of the affects of recoil when considering the disturbance of the position. Large caliber weapons will have recoil reduction mechanisms to aid the shooter. Put this in .22 terms and there is an argument that the recoil reduction afforded with a semi due to the mechanism absorbing some of the recoil forces will aid the shooter to settle back on the target with less disturbance.

 

There. That should open a can of worms....

Edited September 17, 2012 by Gregthegreat

[Hamster]

 

There. That should open a can of worms....

 

It should do that no problem, seeing as a lot of it is plain wrong.

[Imperfection]

My little CZ511 self loader is quite an accurate rifle,but it is not in the same league as its bolt action cousin.

[Gregthegreat]

 

 

It should do that no problem, seeing as a lot of it is plain wrong.

 

That's a sweeping statement! How about backing it up with some useful info.

 

Go on...?

Edited September 17, 2012 by Gregthegreat

[jam1e]

My point was "all things being as equal as could be". Would one be more accurate than the other. Rather than semi's invariably having cheaper barrels and triggers.

Thanks for all the replies though folks. Interesting, reading the different perspectives.