WHSmiths petition. Please show your support and sign.

[Reece]

The CA and BASC have been doing an incredible amount of work behind the scenes along side myself. Running this campaign has givven me an incredible insight into the amount of work the organisations do for our sport. We are averaging just under one signature a minute, which is incredible. It is important to let you all know that we have much set in store for the campaign which should show themselfs over the next few weeks. I cannot give to much away but this is just the begining of our campaign!

 

What do you mean by "we" exactly? Do you mean the petition supporters, or are you working with the CA and/or BASC on something?

[demonwolf444]

By we, i mean that at this time everyone involved in this petition needs to sustain an active process, giving up whatever time you can to lobby MP's, Make sure everyone you know knows about the petition, and do everything in your power to publicise this issue, write to your local newspaper?

 

Furthermore by We, i have been coming home from school at quarter past four and rallying emails back and forth to many different organisations, busness's, charities ( who cannot officially show support as they are not aloud to politically lobby unless its for thier charity ) and coming up with ideas of how we can make sure this petition is as publicised as possible untill about midnight every night, so that every shooting sportsman, no matter his or her age can get active at some stage of this campaign. I cannot give too much away, but BASC has Far more members than the 5000 or so signatures we have secured so far, ( and i say We allot because its been very much a colaborative effort from many people ) and yes together we are working on many different things. CA have been doing an incredible amount behind the scenes and their part in this cannot be understated.

[David BASC]

Dear All,

 

we are about to e-mail a flyer to all our trade members that they can print out and display / hand out in their shops and shooting grounds.

 

A copy of the pdf is on our Key Issue page here: http://www.basc.org.....C55619A5B7EFEB

 

Regards

 

David

[wymberley]

Cough, cough, excuse me, but has the dead donkey been dropped?

 

I've got a pile of A4 that fits nicely in the game pocket of the Barbour together with some sticky bits and before leaving to suitably adorn the windows and magazine racks of the local shop I thought I'd just update on the situation and can find no mention of this on neither of the two biggest IPC shooting titles' web sites. As I would imagine IPC are going to be the biggest losers here, I would have expected some reaction from them.

 

Now, as I don't suppose any 'invitation' into the manager's office, let alone the local nick, is going to involve coffee and hobnobs, one has to ask that if they don't appear to be too bothered, why should we and under the circumstance, me in particular.

 

David BASC, if you are about, has BASC spoken to, or been to by, anyone from IPC with regard to their intentions - I'm aware of business confidentialiy restrictions but surely they must have an opinion on the matter.

 

 

Edit: David, damned double glazing salemen! You weren't there when I kicked off, but my question still stands. Have you nothing that can go out to the trade members that we (members) could collect to dish out. However, the remark about the apparent IPC inertia stands

Edited October 19, 2012 by wymberley

[CharlieT]

My latest reply from WHS.

 

Keep the pressure up and they just may take note.

 

 

Dear Charlie

 

As we have already advised you, our till prompt process has been in place for many years and has never previously generated any customer complaints. In this respect, we have undertaken no recent changes to our procedures.

 

The introduction of till prompts with regards to certain shooting titles originated from the fact that a number of these publications have historically included free giveaway 'cover mounts', with items attached to the front of the magazine, that have included certain firearm related products. With regard to the application of these procedures across our store chain however, these till prompts have only been applied to a section of the gun related and shooting titles that we stock, representing a limited number of publications.

 

We continually look at all store procedures, including the use of till prompts, to determine whether they are appropriate in light of changing customer needs, legislative amendments and other regulatory monitoring. Our desire going forwards is to work more closely with the shooting magazine publishers to address the concerns that have been highlighted by all of the customers who have recently contacted us, in order to ensure that appropriate monitoring procedures can be applied, prior to these publications being sent to the store for placing on sale

 

Regards

 

Juliette Cavilla

Head of Customer Services

[David BASC]

I dare say they do, and I believe they are speaking to WH Smith just as we are - but from BASC's point of view, its important that we - the shooters / consumers stand up to this.

 

The publishers of magazines will, I am sure, also bring pressure to bear, as should shop owners and shooting grounds who advertise in these magazines - if sales of their magazines are restricted, then that is a big issue for all advertises - frankly BASC included.

 

David

[wymberley]

I dare say they do, and I believe they are speaking to WH Smith just as we are - but from BASC's point of view, its important that we - the shooters / consumers stand up to this.

 

The publishers of magazines will, I am sure, also bring pressure to bear, as should shop owners and shooting grounds who advertise in these magazines - if sales of their magazines are restricted, then that is a big issue for all advertises - frankly BASC included.

 

David

 

David,

 

Thankyou.

 

In view of the response that Charlie has received, perhaps the time for a sarcastic (never ideal) approach has passed. I'll just settle for knocking up a big something for the front of the Black Cat.

[Gillaroo]

I dare say they do, and I believe they are speaking to WH Smith just as we are - but from BASC's point of view, its important that we - the shooters / consumers stand up to this.

 

The publishers of magazines will, I am sure, also bring pressure to bear, as should shop owners and shooting grounds who advertise in these magazines - if sales of their magazines are restricted, then that is a big issue for all advertises - frankly BASC included.

 

David

 

Hi David

Can BASC (as an advertiser) get a list of exactly what cover mounts have been on all shooting titles as WH Smith are implying these could not be sold/given away to under 18s?

If they have made this decision with no basis on legality then surely this is prejudice?

G

[Blunderbuss]

My latest reply from WHS.

 

Keep the pressure up and they just may take note.

 

 

Dear Charlie

 

As we have already advised you, our till prompt process has been in place for many years and has never previously generated any customer complaints. In this respect, we have undertaken no recent changes to our procedures.

 

The introduction of till prompts with regards to certain shooting titles originated from the fact that a number of these publications have historically included free giveaway 'cover mounts', with items attached to the front of the magazine, that have included certain firearm related products. With regard to the application of these procedures across our store chain however, these till prompts have only been applied to a section of the gun related and shooting titles that we stock, representing a limited number of publications.

 

We continually look at all store procedures, including the use of till prompts, to determine whether they are appropriate in light of changing customer needs, legislative amendments and other regulatory monitoring. Our desire going forwards is to work more closely with the shooting magazine publishers to address the concerns that have been highlighted by all of the customers who have recently contacted us, in order to ensure that appropriate monitoring procedures can be applied, prior to these publications being sent to the store for placing on sale

 

Regards

 

Juliette Cavilla

Head of Customer Services

 

Charlie

 

Just had an identical, word for word response. I naively thought it might have been a personal one until I read yours! Here's what I fired back:

 

Dear Juliette,

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I do appreciate it. Your till prompt process may have been place for many years but it obviously wasn't activated at the auto check outs until recently. I buy shooting times in one of your stores every week, until last week it had never activated. Please note that having the till 'alert' in a busy shop, for an assistant to 'authorise' the purchase is demeaning and embarrassing. It implies I am buying something unsavoury or pornographic, not a leisure magazine covering a legitimate and popular sport.

 

Secondly, I'm afraid the free give away issue is a complete red herring. 'Firearm related products' implies guns, ammunition or component parts. The reality is foam ear plugs, dog whistles, fabric pellet pouches or other benign items which are completely legal for anyone to own, without age restriction. The magazines would be breaking the law if this was not the case. As with all the other reasons given for this policy change, it does not stand up to even the flimsiest scrutiny.

 

I am pleased to hear that you wish to work more closely with the shooting community, the only way forward is to reverse this discriminatory policy immediately. The word is spreading throughout the rural community about this and people are angry about it, you may wish to Google 'WH Smith shooting magazines' to see what the local press around the country, particularly in rural counties are saying. Suffice to say your company's reputation is being damaged and only swift action can limit this

 

Regards

 

'Blunderbuss'

[David BASC]

We are asking, the only things I can remember being cover mounted over the last 17-20 years are:

 

Plastic licence holder

Ear plugs

Quarry seasons cards

Plastic ‘quick loader’

 

 

None of which could in any way be seen to be offensive or in any need of an age restriction.

 

 

Sounds like a load of old shoe makers to me!

 

 

Any others?

 

David

[CharlieT]

Hi David

Can BASC (as an advertiser) get a list of exactly what cover mounts have been on all shooting titles as WH Smith are implying these could not be sold/given away to under 18s?

If they have made this decision with no basis on legality then surely this is prejudice?

G

 

I would suggest that the subject of "cover mounts" means little.

It is I imagine a "saving face" way out for them to rethink their policy and go some way to appease the anti brigade. I don't think we should read too much into it.

[wymberley]

Just had a chatty chit by a round-a-bout route from the South West Director of the CA: It seems we should have some good news soon!

 

I offer no comment.

[David BASC]

Yes indeed we should, but that does not mean we should give up pushing!

 

Until the senior managers of WH Smith tell us they have stopped this daft practice, we must keep lobbying! let’s not get fooled by empty promises

 

David

[Scully]

My latest reply from WHS.

 

Keep the pressure up and they just may take note.

 

 

Dear Charlie

 

As we have already advised you, our till prompt process has been in place for many years and has never previously generated any customer complaints. In this respect, we have undertaken no recent changes to our procedures.

 

The introduction of till prompts with regards to certain shooting titles originated from the fact that a number of these publications have historically included free giveaway 'cover mounts', with items attached to the front of the magazine, that have included certain firearm related products. With regard to the application of these procedures across our store chain however, these till prompts have only been applied to a section of the gun related and shooting titles that we stock, representing a limited number of publications.

 

We continually look at all store procedures, including the use of till prompts, to determine whether they are appropriate in light of changing customer needs, legislative amendments and other regulatory monitoring. Our desire going forwards is to work more closely with the shooting magazine publishers to address the concerns that have been highlighted by all of the customers who have recently contacted us, in order to ensure that appropriate monitoring procedures can be applied, prior to these publications being sent to the store for placing on sale

 

Regards

 

Juliette Cavilla

Head of Customer Services

After receiving stock reply from the delightful Denise the other day,I e-mailed her again,stating that I had informed her that I would rather have no reply than the double insult of a stock reply,but that is what I got,and asked why WHSmith had imposed a censorship on shooting mag's for minors when minors were in fact quite lawfully able to participate in shooting pursuits.I thought I may get an answer to a direct question,but there was no mention of my question in the e-mail I received this morning from Juliette Cavilla,which is an exact copy,word for word,of the reply CharlieT has posted above,so therefore,another stock reply!You've gotta laugh!

[frankydiver]

Just had the same reply as Charlie T. That is after the second email I sent asking for a non stock reply

[David BASC]

Ask them some specific questions - like –

 

Why did they change policy?

Did they bow to the pressure from the Animal Aid 'research'

When will they be reversing this policy?

Have they replied to BASC yet?

 

David

[demonwolf444]

Fantastic advice david and thankyou for all BASC's help on the issue. It may seem like you are talking to a brick wall however the reality is that is far from true, we are being heard. It is extremely important at this time that we make sure that pressure is sustained so that we are not played off against animal aid and we show we are serious about our demands and what we hope to achieve.

 

Thankyou for everyone's support over the last few days, i hope this level of activism can be sustained by the shooting community, Change relies on our voices being heard, which relies on us all speaking up for the sport we love.

 

James Reynolds.

[David BASC]

One final point, lets not get fobbed off by WH Smiths PR machine.

 

As it says on Wikipedia:

 

PR is the practice of managing the flow of information between an individual or an organisation and the public. .......The aim of public relations by a company often is to persuade the public, investors, partners, employees, and other stakeholders to maintain a certain point of view about it, its leadership, products, or of political decisions....

 

Its WH Smith directors that make the decisions on policy I suspect and NOT their PR company or customer services deaprtment!!

 

David

[Reece]

David,

 

I understand there was a proposal for BASC to email all members and ask them to sign the petition. Has anything happened with that?

 

Would it not be worth designing a leaflet to get non shooters on our side, including the shortened link to the petition to make the process easier?

 

http://chn.ge/Rs0xEn

 

 

Also, it looks like the number of people signing the petition has not slowed down, which is good news. But the more the merrier.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Reece

[David BASC]

The first e-maill to all our trade members went out a few hours ago.

 

The next e-mail to the wider membership is still planned for over the weekend / early next week.

 

My colleagues will be doing all the work on that, i am on leave with the family!

 

David

[Reece]

The first e-maill to all our trade members went out a few hours ago.

 

The next e-mail to the wider membership is still planned for over the weekend / early next week.

 

My colleagues will be doing all the work on that, i am on leave with the family!

 

David

 

Good. As long as it gets done.

 

Also, the petition now has 5,509 signatures on it, over half the target of 10,000, and is showing no signs of slowing down, touch wood.

[Conor O'Gorman]

Just wanted to let you know that the BASC webpage on this issue continues to get updated as new information and suggestions come in, either directly to us, or via the various shooting forums or the Facebook campaign page. At the risk of sounding too dramatic I think that 2012 has marked the death of apathy amongst some shooters online. Some will say, why aren't more shooters getting involved, but its heading in the right direction, each time we collectively tackle an attack on our sport and livelihoods we come back with even more activists, and especially people coming to the fore and setting up petitions like James on this topic and Geoff on the Royal Mail campaign. The more we do the more confident and stronger we get. Its all about self belief and I am hopeful that with our collective perseverance that we can win this battle.

 

As regards BASC emails to members, whist we have sent out links to the campaign in some recent scheduled regional updates and to our trade members, we have yet to play our hand on a single topic Action Alert to all our members in one go. That is a deliberate decision based on circumstance and timing and if nothing has changed by the end of the weekend then that hand will be played. In that Action Alert we will link in all aspects of the campaign as outlined on our website, as follows:

 

Complaints by email, making people aware of the three stock replies being sent by WHSmith, signing the petition, voting in the Telegraph web poll, supporting the Facebook campaign, leaving comments on WHSmith Facebook page, posting letters of complaint, spreading the word with an awareness raising leaflet, asking people to visit their local store and complain to management, and asking people to leave comments if they have received any personal correspondence from WHSmith or any feedback from their store visits. If we have missed anything let me know and I can add it to the list.

 

I will be heading to my local WHSmith in Chester this weekend to complain to the manager, will probably have either one or both of my sons in tow, aged 2 and 3 years of age. I will post my feedback on the BASC website and if anyone else is doing the same I will add their feedback too, whether receive directly or via postings on forums or Facebook.

[Reece]

Just wanted to let you know that the BASC webpage on this issue continues to get updated as new information and suggestions come in, either directly to us, or via the various shooting forums or the Facebook campaign page. At the risk of sounding too dramatic I think that 2012 has marked the death of apathy amongst some shooters online. Some will say, why aren't more shooters getting involved, but its heading in the right direction, each time we collectively tackle an attack on our sport and livelihoods we come back with even more activists, and especially people coming to the fore and setting up petitions like James on this topic and Geoff on the Royal Mail campaign. The more we do the more confident and stronger we get. Its all about self belief and I am hopeful that with our collective perseverance that we can win this battle.

 

As regards BASC emails to members, whist we have sent out links to the campaign in some recent scheduled regional updates and to our trade members, we have yet to play our hand on a single topic Action Alert to all our members in one go. That is a deliberate decision based on circumstance and timing and if nothing has changed by the end of the weekend then that hand will be played. In that Action Alert we will link in all aspects of the campaign as outlined on our website, as follows:

 

Complaints by email, making people aware of the three stock replies being sent by WHSmith, signing the petition, voting in the Telegraph web poll, supporting the Facebook campaign, leaving comments on WHSmith Facebook page, posting letters of complaint, spreading the word with an awareness raising leaflet, asking people to visit their local store and complain to management, and asking people to leave comments if they have received any personal correspondence from WHSmith or any feedback from their store visits. If we have missed anything let me know and I can add it to the list.

 

I will be heading to my local WHSmith in Chester this weekend to complain to the manager, will probably have either one or both of my sons in tow, aged 2 and 3 years of age. I will post my feedback on the BASC website and if anyone else is doing the same I will add their feedback too, whether receive directly or via postings on forums or Facebook.

 

That could be added to the list. Chances are fewer people will take part in that than have signed the petition and/or sent emails, as some people will not have the time to actually go down to WHSmith, but it is worth mentioning it for those who do have the time and dedication.

[gunhills]

Done. If it hits there sales they will listen

[onefulham]

I think Smiths have screwed up big time, they have caught the anger of a lot of the shooting community that have been drip drip attacked for so long and hoped just to get on with their interest with no real need to defend it,loads on here don't read these magazines or moan about them, but that is not an issue, it is the constant attacking of the shooting community, lets hope this stupid decision from Smiths is reversed and that we don't think the war is then won, emotive words I know but we are under attack from a bigoted unrepresentative minority and need to defend our rights more openly and clearly.