Scottish Independence

[maxie]

Some of the points brought up about Scotland`s economic viability are exactly the same as was spouted about the new American republic in the late eighteenth century or more recently the Irish republic.Do people honestly think that the Scots are not capable of running their own affairs.Me thinks it reflects English arrogance.

[Laird Lugton]

 

 

Sorry, I stopped reading when it stopped making sense - so I got as far as "no, I'm not a numpty"....

 

+1

 

if they go it along, we will still have to pay for them.

 

Think about what you've just written and see if it makes sense.

[Laird Lugton]

There are so many questions which the SNP keep stalling on.

 

1. Can we join the EU, SNP said automatic right of entry, the EU says otherwise. The Tories have asked for the legal advice the SNP have received on this to be published, the SNP have refused. Tories have submitted a freedom of information request. we shall see.....

 

2. We'll get the Euro says the SNP, support for SNP drops, we'll keep the pound says the SNP. How is that going to work if we can't set our own interest rates.....

 

3. We're in NATO then we're out of NATO then we're back in NATO.

 

The whole thing is an amateurish shambles.

 

The only possible upside to independence (and I am against independence) is that the entitlement culture up here would have to end. That would of course be after they've raped the taxpayer for every last penny. The economy would be in the doldrums but it should allow us to be fitter economically speaking which could attract inward investment as happened in the Republic of Ireland.

 

[Gimlet]

Some of the points brought up about Scotland`s economic viability are exactly the same as was spouted about the new American republic in the late eighteenth century or more recently the Irish republic.Do people honestly think that the Scots are not capable of running their own affairs.Me thinks it reflects English arrogance.

 

Yes. Economic viability and Ireland.......

Mr Salmond believes he will follow the glorious example of Ireland seeking "independence within the EU" there's an oxymoron if ever there was one. Presumable, as in Ireland, he will endeavour to engineer an economic boom with borrowed cash. And I imagine he will hope to use EU funds to maintain his country's sclerotic dependence on state spending, which in some parts of Scotland is running at 70%. An astonishing figure. Ireland of course opted to ruin its landscape forever with an epidemic of pointless house building causing a debt mountain and a property crash with inevitable, untirely predictable bankruptcy. Despite having Europe's lowest levels of corporation tax, which is not a concept I can see appealing to Mr Salmond's political inclinations, Ireland somehow, with the help of the Euro, managed to grab ruin from the jaws of prosperity.

I wonder what version of Ireland's story Mr Salmond will visit on Scotland? Probably a similar building boom but with extra wind turbines. Blue and white ones perhaps? Of course Mr Salmond, in light of the imminent collapse of the Euro, now thinks Scotland will keep the Pound. Really? A foreign nation using and abusing our currency without any democratic accountability to Britain? I don't think so. That is emphatically not a Scottish matter, that is very much a matter for all of the UK. It is constitutionally inconceivable that an independent Scotland can keep the pound and operate an independent economy. He is selling Scotland a pup.

Scotland certainly has the means to be an economically successful independent nation. But it does not have the politicians with the understanding of what is required to do it, or I suspect the will to make the necessary changes to its society to make it feasible. It would need to cut state spending to less than 30% or cut it in half. There will be no 'social' if Scotland is to succeed. They will need to slash taxes to attract inward investment and pay off their debts. Mr Salmond is a socialist from the same school of economics as Gordon Brown.

You can built a country from scratch, if your people have a pioneer mentality. Building a new country around deeply entrenched dependencies is never going to happen. Like the rest of the UK, Scotland is poorly served by its political class, but for them the stakes are much higher.

 

Edit: or in other words what Laird Lugton said, only longer....

Edited October 20, 2012 by Gimlet

[Vince Green]

if they go it along, we will still have to pay for them.

 

+1 thats what they expect which goes right back to my key point. They are not able to stand on their own. Gimlet in the post above gets it bang on.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Vince Green

[Vince Green]

Vince.

Think there are more Scots living in Liverpool than Scotland.

 

Which speaks volumes!

[Laird Lugton]

Scotland is not financially capable of self Government, not now not ever. It will always have its hand out.

if they go it along, we will still have to pay for them.

Vince.

Think there are more Scots living in Liverpool than Scotland.

+1 thats what they expect which goes right back to my key point. They are not able to stand on their own. Gimlet in the post above gets it bang on.

Which speaks volumes!

 

Vince, Vince, Vince. Given that the population of Liverpool is circa 500,000 and the population of Scotland is about 5.3 million your agreement with that statement marks you out as a tad ignorant.

 

In addition you seem unable to substantiate your arguments or check the most basic of facts which marks you out as a numpty......

 

Numpty

Scottish usage:

a) Someone who (sometimes unwittingly) by speech or action demonstrates a lack of knowledge or misconception of a particular subject or situation to the amusement of others.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Laird Lugton

[aldivalloch]

No I'm not a numpty I am a second generation scot and a proud Campbell. Scotland has no industry worth talking about except tourism (big deal) and a bit of agriculture and a bit of fishing both of which are on their knees. They make a huge big deal about the oil but its not their oil and it never was. It just gets landed in Scotland because Aberdeen was dying and they recycled it as a port..

 

There are more wasters and bone idle losers in Scotland than anywhere else in the British Isles and that takes some doing given the competition from Liverpool and Newcastle. Scotland has more alcohlics per head of population than anywhere else in the western world.

 

It seems to me that every Scot these days has an almighty chip on their shoulders and Alex Salmond is winding them up.

 

Scotland is a beautiful country, scenery to die for but to me they need to accept their role in life as the biggest theme park in the world. Don't knock it, its a living, if you want it to be

 

Vince, you're an even bigger numpty if you think that the words "proud" and "Campbell" cut much ice to the Scots. You've obviously either not heard of, or forgotten about, Glencoe.

[Vince Green]

Vince, you're an even bigger numpty if you think that the words "proud" and "Campbell" cut much ice to the Scots. You've obviously either not heard of, or forgotten about, Glencoe.

 

Yes, I have been to Glencoe but your memory is selective, a lot of the origins started from the McDs looting the lands of John Campbell, bankrupting him and driving him into the service of the English. However, I agree with you it was a terrible thing. Not something to be proud of.

 

The history of Scotland is splattered in blood on all sides though. Had they put as much effort into getting on as they did into murdering each other they may have been a force to reckon with. As it was, they never achieved very much.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Vince Green

[maxie]

 

 

Yes. Economic viability and Ireland.......

Mr Salmond believes he will follow the glorious example of Ireland seeking "independence within the EU" there's an oxymoron if ever there was one. Presumable, as in Ireland, he will endeavour to engineer an economic boom with borrowed cash. And I imagine he will hope to use EU funds to maintain his country's sclerotic dependence on state spending, which in some parts of Scotland is running at 70%. An astonishing figure. Ireland of course opted to ruin its landscape forever with an epidemic of pointless house building causing a debt mountain and a property crash with inevitable, untirely predictable bankruptcy. Despite having Europe's lowest levels of corporation tax, which is not a concept I can see appealing to Mr Salmond's political inclinations, Ireland somehow, with the help of the Euro, managed to grab ruin from the jaws of prosperity.

I wonder what version of Ireland's story Mr Salmond will visit on Scotland? Probably a similar building boom but with extra wind turbines. Blue and white ones perhaps? Of course Mr Salmond, in light of the imminent collapse of the Euro, now thinks Scotland will keep the Pound. Really? A foreign nation using and abusing our currency without any democratic accountability to Britain? I don't think so. That is emphatically not a Scottish matter, that is very much a matter for all of the UK. It is constitutionally inconceivable that an independent Scotland can keep the pound and operate an independent economy. He is selling Scotland a pup.

Scotland certainly has the means to be an economically successful independent nation. But it does not have the politicians with the understanding of what is required to do it, or I suspect the will to make the necessary changes to its society to make it feasible. It would need to cut state spending to less than 30% or cut it in half. There will be no 'social' if Scotland is to succeed. They will need to slash taxes to attract inward investment and pay off their debts. Mr Salmond is a socialist from the same school of economics as Gordon Brown.

You can built a country from scratch, if your people have a pioneer mentality. Building a new country around deeply entrenched dependencies is never going to happen. Like the rest of the UK, Scotland is poorly served by its political class, but for them the stakes are much higher.

 

Edit: or in other words what Laird Lugton said, only longer....

[maxie]

Strange according to the latest Government statistics Irish GDP per capita and GNI per capita is well above the UK`s suggesting far higher living standards in the Irish republic than the U.K.

[aldivalloch]

Yes, I have been to Glencoe but your memory is selective, a lot of the origins started from the McDs looting the lands of John Campbell, bankrupting him and driving him into the service of the English. However, I agree with you it was a terrible thing. Not something to be proud of.

 

The history of Scotland is splattered in blood on all sides though. Had they put as much effort into getting on as they did into murdering each other they may have been a force to reckon with. As it was, they never achieved very much.

Murdering one another wasn't something that was confined to Scotland. It was quite a popular pass-time in many parts of the British Isles. I reckon it happened because people were bored - there wasn't that much to do in the evenings and at weekends, after all.

 

But it all changed when television was invented (by a Scotsman...), and previously war-like people were able to sit in and watch Eastenders and Jeremy Kyle. Enough to take the fight out of anybody.....

 

And you've been to Glencoe? Risky! I hope you didn't get invited in for a cuppa by a cigar-smoking old guy in a tracksuit..........

[Laird Lugton]

Strange according to the latest Government statistics Irish GDP per capita and GNI per capita is well above the UK`s suggesting far higher living standards in the Irish republic than the U.K.

 

From the FT in Jan 2012:

 

Foreign companies made a record number of investments in Ireland last year, creating 13,000 new jobs and helping the economy to return to growth after three years of recession.

[maxie]

The FT statement states the Irish economy has returned to GROWTH after three years of recession,where is our growth?

[speckled frank]

is the whole country getting the chance to vote or just Scotland as any independence will affect everyone in the UK

 

Good point. If you gave the English a chance to vote the result would be an overwhelming "Yes" - Just so we don't have to hear the whining any more.

[ordnance]

Some of the points brought up about Scotland`s economic viability are exactly the same as was spouted about the new American republic in the late eighteenth century or more recently the Irish republic.Do people honestly think that the Scots are not capable of running their own affairs.Me thinks it reflects English arrogance.

 

I don't think the Republic of Ireland is a good example of how to run a country. The country is bankrupt and had to go cap in hand to Europe for a handout.

[maxie]

Did the UK not have to go to the IMF for a handout in the seventies?Does that mean the UK isn`t economically viable?

[Egg]

How would Scotland defend itself should it need to, do they have there own armed forces or would we have to back them up? What happens when the oil and gas runs out because that's what they reckon will keep Scotland afloat should they become independent or will they be knocking on our door cap in hand?

 

I've been to Scotland numerous times stalking and for holidays I think its a stunning place and would move there in a heartbeat the people who I have met even the old guard stalkers think it would be a bad idea, salmond is just a power hungry idiot who will run the country in to the ground and discard it like an oily rag then somebody will have to pick up the pieces and I bet I no who that will be......

There's a bit more to Scotland than bonny glens, Harris Tweed and Auld Tam the ghillie mate - we have our skanky bits in as much abundance as we have lovely areas you've been lucky enough to shoot over.

 

Anyway, independence? The jury's out on that one here as I see both sides of the argument as having its plus & minus points.

[Egg]

No I'm not a numpty I am a second generation scot and a proud Campbell. Scotland has no industry worth talking about except tourism (big deal) and a bit of agriculture and a bit of fishing both of which are on their knees. They make a huge big deal about the oil but its not their oil and it never was. It just gets landed in Scotland because Aberdeen was dying and they recycled it as a port..

 

There are more wasters and bone idle losers in Scotland than anywhere else in the British Isles and that takes some doing given the competition from Liverpool and Newcastle. Scotland has more alcohlics per head of population than anywhere else in the western world.

 

It seems to me that every Scot these days has an almighty chip on their shoulders and Alex Salmond is winding them up.

 

Scotland is a beautiful country, scenery to die for but to me they need to accept their role in life as the biggest theme park in the world. Don't knock it, its a living, if you want it to be

Can you link us to a source of your statements please or is it just something you read in the Daily Mail?

 

Links please or it's just propaganda.

[Boromir]

Alba gu bràth

[Nial]

Alba gu bràth

 

I agree, Scotland Forever.

 

So we should vote NO so we don't have to go to the rest of the UK with a begging bowl in

10 years and accept rescue in return for a rename to "Northern Northern England".

 

 

 

Nial

[beeredup]

i work in the oil industry an work with a loads of lads from north of the border and not a single one of em think independence is good idea!

[ordnance]

Alba gu bràth

 

You might as well post in Klingon about as many people will understand it.

[beeredup]

alex salmond is nuttier than squirrel dung!! and spout a load of sensationalist piiish! but i must admit i am yet to meet some one from the north side of hadrians wall that wants him to get his way?

[nabbers]

I hope Scotland does get to set their own destiny. one that's right for them, not a con by politicians.

 

I hope the Scots start loving the English, the ordinary English because we are not responsible for what has been done in our name by the rich upper classes, government and royalty.

 

Racism against the English by Scottish people needs to end!