al4x Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 If you look in many areas the reasons the woodland is as it is is entirely down to driven shooting. Where we are its so easy to see an awful lot has been planted so drives work, shooting estates are the ones that retain the smaller fields and have hedgerows rather than being purely farming orientated where the woodland goes and the hedges get grubbed up. sadly the uneducated have little idea what actually happens outside towns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Vipa Do you shoot through necessity to put food on the table ? Or, is the food the bi-product of something you enjoy, stalking and pigeon shooting ? If it`s the later you are a hypocrite as you are taking pleasure in taking a life the same as game shooter. Why is it wrong to rear and release game to be shot but OK if the birds are wild ? Is this a problem you have with the differing classes and you associating released game with those who have titles or are well to do ? I really don`t understand where you are coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Nice attitude. Run down farming to justify your sport. Just remember who provides the land you shoot over !! Wholeheartedly agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 It beats me how veggies can stomach the thought of rabbits and rats, slugs and snails and many small bugs being poisoned and dying a slow agonising death to make the vegatables and cereals available for them to eat.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Nice attitude. Run down farming to justify your sport. Just remember who provides the land you shoot over !! Interesting point of view, wonder if the antis will pay farmers / landowners rent if / when they succeed in banning shooting ? The post you replied to was referring to ethical farming was he not......... surely you dont condone poor welfare / unethical farming do you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Most people are blinkered as to food production, they can't see anything prior to when it was put into it's plastic wrapping and onto the shelf at the supermarket.. And.. In my experience.. Don't want to. They are happy to eat meat but really don't want to know how it got to the plate. That is thier choice and you will just put them on the back foot if you try to change thier minds (bit like religion... There is often no point and everyone is entitled to an opinion and that opinion should be respected.) I have had success altering my family's point of view (mum has been a veggie for 40 years) by using eggs and chicken as an analogy. Most people I know would always go for free range eggs and free range chicken over battery hens... Choosing free range meat over farmed meat is a similar choice in my view and people seem to understand that. Ths is a great argument with venison but falls flat with game birds. Most people (even me) can't get thier heads round birds being bred to be shot, even with the conservation arguments.. So try the chicken & egg analogy and ask him which he would choose Is mungler giving lessons in diplomacy now? :-) The venison you talk about, does it come from cull beasts ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 slight difference.... game birds are bred... at great expense.... to be shot... FOR FUN... by well heeled chaps in tweed who pay a lot of money for the privilage of doing it... not for food, that is just a by product, or for medical research! While I'm sure the well heeled stereotype satisfies lots of people when talking about shooting. My seasons shooting costs a lot less than a season ticket to a premier league football club ! I've never worn tweeds (& dont know anybody who does) nor do I drive a new range rover. You purport to be a shooter I suggest you stand shoulder to shoulder with guns from all disciplines. Do you think the antis will tolerate deer shooting if they succeed in banning game shooting? Deluded if you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 if it was me and it wont get you in to trouble with your company i would do a **** poor job so his new kitchen would be a **** kitchen like no sealant behind the splash back or work top edge so in about 3 month the mdf will swell with water and just crumble to nothing just to say put that in you do goodin pipe in smoke that one you hippy And then the guy will remember that the person who did the work was a shooter and thus think we are all bad on top of what he already thinks about shooters. Some people really don't think about these things do they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlerob Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) what have And then the guy will remember that the person who did the work was a shooter and thus think we are all bad on top of what he already thinks about shooters. Some people really don't think about these things do they. what have shooting got to do with making a poor job of fitting the kitchen i get all these hippy anti types all the time in my trade and what ever your in the wrong n there right you can try n change then but 90% of the time you wasting your time and breath Edited October 31, 2012 by littlerob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) In all the years I've been involved in shooting,I have never known any birds to be 'dumped' or 'buried' as many antis have claimed.Even hard hit birds are keenly contested for ny beaters to be taken either for dog meat of ferret food in my experience. There are some incredibly 'well-heeled' shooters who visit my local area to shoot for fun,especially up on the moors for 'grice',and they pay good money to do so. On the biggest local shoot they put down around 45,000 birds,and the shoot owner inviteS his 'well-heeled' mates and a few paying guests to shoot throughout the season...for fun.All shot birds are either taken by shooters (a local lady makes good money by dressing these birds,for numerous shoots and hotels in the vicinity)or picked up by a game dealer. On the adjacent shoot,they put down around 3,500 birds,and the landowner has a syndicate made up of 'well-heeled' farmers,some of whom are 'straight off't tunnip tops',and some of whom are very very wealthy through selling their beef to Sainsburys etc.Beaters day on this shoot is something to write home about.All shot birds are either taken by shooters(via the same lady)or sold to the same game dealer. In my little syndicate,we put down 350 birds per season(we all chip in with the 'keepering)and amongst us there is the landowner('well-heeled' despite going 'bust' a couple of times)who is a great bloke,and who sometimes invites the odd Lord or Earl as his guest,but he ****** in the hedge along with the rest of us;a gamekeeper,a farmer,a rep,a painter(me)a farm labourer,a self-employed brickie,a retired submarine commander(grand bloke),a civil servant,a struggling website designer,a retired copper,two wagon drivers and a handyman.None of us are destitute,but a long way from being 'well-heeled'.We pay £250.00 per season.No gamedealer involved here as bags aren't great;all birds are taken by either the guns or beaters. On our rough shoot,there is a farmer,a rep,me,the handyman and a farm labourer.We pay a pound per acre per year,over 300 acres,between three of us.We put down approx' 200 ex-layers each year,and shoot for fun.No game dealer involved here either,we take all birds. And thereby stands the crux of the matter.There isn't one person on this forum who shoots and kills any game species out of necessity(or most vermin species for that matter,with the odd exception)so we must be shooting for another reason.....IF YOU DON'T ENJOY SHOOTING,STOP DOING IT! Edited October 31, 2012 by Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 what have what have shooting got to do with making a poor job of fitting the kitchen i get all these hippy anti types all the time in my trade and what ever your in the wrong n there right you can try n change then but 90% of the time you wasting your time and breath Its the association, people who do not agree with shooting will find anything to put us in a bad light. If you do a bad job and they know you shoot that they'll think we're all bad. As for doing a bad job in the first place, any respectable tradesmen wouldn't do a bad job just because someone else doesnt agree with their hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Vipa Do you shoot through necessity to put food on the table ? Or, is the food the bi-product of something you enjoy, stalking and pigeon shooting ? If it`s the later you are a hypocrite as you are taking pleasure in taking a life the same as game shooter. Why is it wrong to rear and release game to be shot but OK if the birds are wild ? Is this a problem you have with the differing classes and you associating released game with those who have titles or are well to do ? I really don`t understand where you are coming from. No... I don't shoot because I need to... I shoot because I find the whole abatoir system absolutely shocking and the fact that over 70% is Halal, and Halal butchery is, in my eyes totally barbarric ... I shoot because I want to eat free range meat and want to know exactly where it came from, the state it was in before it died, how it died and exactly what happened to that meat between it being killed and ending up on my table... I still eat slaughterhouse meat but it makes up probably only 20% of our annual intake now, the rest being venison (and free range chicken!) This all began after watching 'Kill it, Cook it, Eat it' on TV. Up to that point I had only ever punched paper or shot at clays. As it happens I also enjoy the experience of the stalking I see no hypocracy here? Deer are not bred to be shot, they are truly wild but need controlling. I want wild red meat and to harvest it myself and have the means to do it and find the process enjoyable. If guns were banned tomorrow, there would still be deer, in ever increasing numbers... could the same be said about pheasant? No... Pheasant are reared to be shot for 'sport'... there is no question about that! If you are trying to tell me that the birds are reared and cared for for some other purpose and that the shooting of them is just the best way to dispach them or is a coincidental by-product then I'm all ears. I hate to say it guys... but you are showing exactly the kind of aggressive attitude towards someone who has his own view... not misguided, media driven views, just moral views... I have not tried to tear into any of you for doing what you want to do in your spare time, just pointed out that I find it difficult to morally rationalise game bird shooting! And Alex... great... you eat what you shoot... I know how much it costs to be a gun at a commercial driven shoot... the cost of rearing the birds, protecting them etc.. costs a lot of money, shooting them, then costs tens if not hundreds (sometimes even thousands) of pounds per bird... at the end of the shoot... the meat is worth a couple of quid and not many of the guns will be interested in more than a brace.. that to me puts a very big value in the kill and a very small value on the life! Just my views guys, nothing more... If we all thought exactly the same, the world would be a very dull place indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) As for doing a bad job in the first place, any respectable tradesmen wouldn't do a bad job just because someone else doesnt agree with their hobby. Very true.If you're self-employed your work is your advertisement.If the client is a meat eater then he's a hypocrate.You owe it to yourself to do a good job regardless of the opinions of your employer. Edited October 31, 2012 by Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) As for the original thread, wait until you have been paid and then sneak back and leave a floater in his toilet. I don't know George? What about grouse? I know very little about them. Are they brought into this world with the sole intention of putting them infront of someone to shoot for fun or are they naturally occurring and the conservation efforts help thier numbers and survival? If it is the former then yes, it falls under the same moral radar as pheasant. if it is the latter, I can accept it. As for the deer... where did I ever mention cost when it came to venison? As far as I am concerned, no cost is too high (as long as I can afford it!) for me to be able to see my food through from being wild and free to onto my plate! this isn't a financial issue... good god, if it was I wouldn't stalk at all... £ for lb it's probably the most expensive meat one can eat! And no, I've never sold any. I stalk when the freezer needs replenishing and to be honest I shoot pigeon very seldomly... I have been out probably twice in 2 years! Edited October 31, 2012 by Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat g Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 You're talking ******** Vipa a fine anti showing his colours but without having the first idea what you are talking about. You need to educate yourself and experience some game shooting to see how much **** you are talking. Our pheasants have been released since late July first shoot is this week, they were reared in grass pens like most and have had complete freedom since 2 weeks going to wood. No birds are dumped all ours will be eaten on the larger shoot I am on the dealer has everything what doesn't get eaten in the UK there is a fine continental market for. Where I think the issues and rumours come from may be someones midden etc and any birds not fit for the table, much like stalking a certain number will be condemned usually due to poor shooting which is exactly the same as stalking. The fact we gain sport from it well its hard for you to comprehend but no different whatsoever to you shooting wild game. The fact is the meat is a great by product of the sport and some of us pretty much live on it during the winter months, when you look at the cost of the bird to the dealer think about what chickens sell for pre processing those 3 for a tenner birds will be worth less than a pheasant in the feather and I know which has had a better life. Those few jobs you talk about is a major industry and unlike yours an honest hard working industry of proper country people. In a nutshell al4x . The shooting fraternity needs to unite. That age old saying "united we stand, divided we fall" I can't get my head around the fact that some shooters who may only have an interest in one particular disipline can condemn other shooters. Personally i., along with many other shooters have an interest in several forms of shooting. Some people seem to think that those involved in Game shooting are a bunch of upper class twits. How untrue. The vast majority of lads involved in Game shooting syndicates are just genuine working class lads, myself included. We do it because we enjoy it, including all the hardwork, expense and rearing of the birds that comes with it ATB, Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) No... I don't shoot because I need to... I shoot because.... While you are able to make a distinction between your shooting and some others, I don't believe that in the general publics eyes you'd be treated any differently. As far as most would be concerned, you shoot living animals and that's wrong, and WORSE, it's cute little Bambi's!!!! I wildfowl, it doesn't get any wilder than that, but there is no way that I could or would ty and distance myself from other ...less 'tasteful' forms of shooting. We all get enjoyment from the shooting experience, and most of us live shoot. I think you are delusional to think it makes you any better or worse than another shooter according to what they choose to shoot at. As said, if it's all about the venison, and not the shooting, then pack your guns away and find your local game dealer. Edited October 31, 2012 by -Mongrel- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Yes the latter is correct. Grouse are wild and cannot be artificially reared like pheasants. Obviously they are not shot for their value as food, but they are not bred in captivity and released to be shot. And the amount of money and effort that needs to be put into a moor to produce a shootable amount is very rarely made back from selling the shooting. The reason i bought cost into it is because you seemed as if you were looking down on people for shooting for sport/fun. If you were wanting to eat venison because it is a healthy and wild meat, then it would be alot cheaper to go to the game dealer and buy a carcass. The fact you dont do that means that you go deer stalking for sport/fun. You seem to have formed a view that I don't agree with shooting for fun... that is not the case at all... If I bought venison from a game dealer I would not know anything about the meat on my plate.. I'd save a lot of money but that would defeat MY primary goal.. my secondary goal is to enjoy the stalk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 One occasionally gets the feeling that discrediting our sport is best left to those who are involved in it. Opinions really dont matter - facts tend to speak for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) While you are able to make a distinction between your shooting and some others, I don't believe that in the general publics eyes you'd be treated any differently. As far as most would be concerned, you shoot living animals and that's wrong, and WORSE, it's cute little Bambi's!!!! I wildfowl, it doesn't get any wilder than that, but there is no way that I could or would ty and distance myself from other ...less 'tasteful'forms of shooting. We all get enjoyment from the shooting experience, and most of us live shoot. I think you are delusional to think it makes you any beter or worse than another shooter according to what they choose to shoot at. I haven't tried to distance my self from anyone or anything... again.. just pointed out that I cannot rationalise rearing animals with the sole intention of shooting them for sport... Am I not allowed an opinion? or do I have to share yours or shut the **** up? I'm with ya all the way on the Bambi thing... Walt Disney has soooooo much to answer for! Edited October 31, 2012 by Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I should add, that my comment about other forms of shooting being less 'tasteful' isn't aimed at game shooters or stalkers. Personally I'd struggle to justify shooting something I won't then eat, as such I have issues with big game shooting. Not something I would do, but as I understand it, most are cull beasts and therfore I can see the reason, it's just not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) I should add, that my comment about other forms of shooting being less 'tasteful' isn't aimed at game shooters or stalkers. Personally I'd struggle to justify shooting something I won't then eat, as such I have issues with big game shooting. Not something I would do, but as I understand it, most are cull beasts and therfore I can see the reason, it's just not for me. And my sentence about opinions wasn't aimed at you Mongrel... just blowing off! Edited October 31, 2012 by Vipa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) I haven't tried to distance my self from anyone or anything... again.. just pointed out that I cannot rationalise rearing animals with the sole intention of shooting them for sport... Am I not allowed an opinion? or do I have to share yours or shut the **** up? I'm with ya all the way on the Bambi thing... Walt Disney has soooooo much to answer for! You are distancing yourself from game shooting with your comments, and as the game does generally end up in the dealers it isn't shot solely for sport, mainly yes, but there is the by product. You are of course allowed your opinion as I am allowed to comment on it, but at no point did I suggest you shut the **** up. Edit: Just seen the above comment, as such my second line is somewhat less relevant Edited October 31, 2012 by -Mongrel- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletyne Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 But isnt a hell of a lot of dear stalking just done for fun for many its nothing more than trophy hunting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 But isnt a hell of a lot of dear stalking just done for fun for many its nothing more than trophy hunting absolutely... something else i don't personally 'get' but... each to thier own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBLATCH Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 compare these http://www.gwct.org.uk/documents/woodland_conservation_and_pheasants.pdf http://www.gwct.org.uk/research__surveys/species_research/mammals/deer/default.asp six and two threes logicaly we all do what we enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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