countryman Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Well my shotgun licence has ran out, as i said in an earlier thread it was all posted off 10 weeks before. B A S C have told me to ask for a temporary permit under section 7 of the firearms act 1968, apparently these are as rare as seeing a bobby walk down your street. What is the real hold up here ? are they having to much tea and biscuits when they do finally get to you or is it our good old red tape system. I have renewed my licence many times over the years and never been put in this position before. I think we should be able to fine them for this, after all if we were to drive around with no car tax for instance and when stopped i said sorry , there's going to be a delay in that, i would soon be for the high jump. .Very poor service. Chrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Have you asked for a section 7 permit?If not then do it tomorrow,asap,and DEMAND one otherwise you'll be taking the matter further.You have been left in posession of illegally held shotgun/s,and anything the Police tell you to the contrary doesn't alter the fact.Get back on the 'phone to BASC first thing in the morning if you don't fancy the confrontation and they may do it for you,but really you should be doing it for yourself...they cannot victimise you for it. Section 7 permits are not rare but many licensing authorities are reluctant to issue as it 'pops up' to signify that they have failed to issue your renewed ticket in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokie Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Staffordshire are just the same . My shotgun licence was 3 months out of date they told me they wouldn't issue a temp cert and just carry my receipt saying they cashed my cheque . Which of coarse doesn't buy you carts . I had to rely on friend to buy them for me . It's a shame as we pay for the service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Have you asked for a section 7 permit?If not then do it tomorrow,asap,and DEMAND one otherwise you'll be taking the matter further.You have been left in posession of illegally held shotgun/s,and anything the Police tell you to the contrary doesn't alter the fact.Get back on the 'phone to BASC first thing in the morning if you don't fancy the confrontation and they may do it for you,but really you should be doing it for yourself...they cannot victimise you for it. Section 7 permits are not rare but many licensing authorities are reluctant to issue as it 'pops up' to signify that they have failed to issue your renewed ticket in time. The question of whether or not you are illegally in possession is one which we could debate for hours but it does put you in a vunerable position. Edited November 11, 2012 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 The question of whether or not you are illegally in possession is one which we could debate for hours Not according to Bill Harriman apparently,who states that without a valid certificate(which the OP in this case doesn't posess)you are in illegal posession of your own shotguns/firearms.He may bw wrong,but as BASC's long time standing 'professional witness',who am I to doubt him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 No one has been prosecuted yet who got their application in on time. It would be seriously egg on face time were someone to end up in court and it be shown to be purely down to licensing being slow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Not according to Bill Harriman apparently,who states that without a valid certificate(which the OP in this case doesn't posess)you are in illegal posession of your own shotguns/firearms.He may bw wrong,but as BASC's long time standing 'professional witness',who am I to doubt him? Yes but I would argue having taken your money there is an acceptance in priciple of your renewal, so its just a matter of being late in tidying up the paperwork. Even so its not a desirable state of affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Cumbria were late only once with my renewal and I was given a section 7 without asking for it. If I was not given one I would demand one as you actually have no authority to posses shotguns if you sgc is out of date. It's just not worth the trouble that you could be in, it might never happen, but in my view it's a risk that should not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 The question of whether or not you are illegally in possession is one which we could debate for hours but it does put you in a vunerable position. You could debate it for hours if you like but anyone proffering the position that you are not in illegal possession would be wrong. If you do not have a valid cert or temporary permit and are not exempt from needing one then you are in illegal possession. Whether the police would prosecute you in such circumstances is a different matter but the fact is that you should not be made to be in illegal possession by the police. Another question is what would happen if you were in the unfortunate position of haing to make an insurance claim in the mean time? I would think that any insurance company would definately try to jump on the issue of your guns were possessed unlawfully. I wouldn't like yo be facing a claim for injuring someone with an illegal shotgun, to be honest. You could end up being made bankrupt. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Yes but I would argue having taken your money there is an acceptance in priciple of your renewal, so its just a matter of being late in tidying up the paperwork. Yep,that's fair enough,and I fully understand that,but in the eyes of the law,the OP is not in possession of a valid shotgun certificate, yet is in possession of shotguns.Even though this is not his fault,the fact remains. Edited for spelling of possession! Edited November 11, 2012 by Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Yes but I would argue having taken your money there is an acceptance in priciple of your renewal, so its just a matter of being late in tidying up the paperwork. Even so its not a desirable state of affairs. Nope. Not a chance you would get anywhere with that argument. If you do not have a certificate then you are in unlawful possession. Besides, the police aren't even allowed to demand it up front. They are actually making what is (techically) an unlawful demand for payment as they have not been granted leave by Parliament to take the money until the cert is actually granted. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Cumbria were late only once with my renewal and I was given a section 7 without asking for it. If I was not given one I would demand one as you actually have no authority to posses shotguns if you sgc is out of date. It's just not worth the trouble that you could be in, it might never happen, but in my view it's a risk that should not happen. Ditto...at last renewal my(Cumbrian)FEO brought a Section 7 permit with him when he came by to check an unproofed gun,and after giving me the permit said that if I was short of ammo he would give me my lapsing tickets back! If none of us handed in our lapsing tickets,then none of us(nor licensing)would ever find ourselves in this position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countryman Posted November 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I will be asking for a section 7 in writing on recorded delivery, if i don't get this with in 5 days i have to go back to BASC who are going to take this up with them on my behalf. This whole situation that they put us in is totally unacceptable. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Good for you;would be interested to know how you get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Ditto...at last renewal my(Cumbrian)FEO brought a Section 7 permit with him when he came by to check an unproofed gun,and after giving me the permit said that if I was short of ammo he would give me my lapsing tickets back! If none of us handed in our lapsing tickets,then none of us(nor licensing)would ever find ourselves in this position. I'm curious about that. May I ask why he was checking it? J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I'm quite interested in this as my renewal is due at the end of the month. Having heard nothing from the firearms department long after this point I have printed my own forms and sent them off but there isn't a chance in hell that it will be renewed in time. If you were to lock all your guns and ammo in the safe and then hand the key to your rfd would that be acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I'm quite interested in this as my renewal is due at the end of the month. Having heard nothing from the firearms department long after this point I have printed my own forms and sent them off but there isn't a chance in hell that it will be renewed in time. If you were to lock all your guns and ammo in the safe and then hand the key to your rfd would that be acceptable? You'd still be in possession as they are in your house and, besides, how would anyone know that you didn't have another key? J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I'm curious about that. May I ask why he was checking it? J. I once applied for a second FAC shotgun,and was asked by licensing why I wanted another.I told them the one I already had was quite rare,and therefore collectible,and I didn't want to sell,and rightly or wrongly said that if I was to sell,it would require proofing first as it had never been proved,and I had no desire to do this.My FEO was then given the information,by licensing, that I owned an 'out of proof' gun,which wasn't true as it had never been proved.I suppose my FEO felt obliged to check it out.Whether the gun was out of proof or never been proved,doesn't make it illeagl to possess,which I pointed out to licensing,but they seemed to think it may be an issue.FEO swung it around the kitchen a couple of times(he's a shooter!),commented on how nice it was,and went away a happy man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 But my partner isn't in possession and she lives here too? I'd have thought the access being denied would be enough, same as it is for everyone else in the house? Who knows I don't have another key? Well nobody, but then who knows that I don't have too many rounds of ammunition or use my guns for illegal activities? That's down to me to be honest, and them to prove that I have another key if it comes to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) I'm quite interested in this as my renewal is due at the end of the month. Having heard nothing from the firearms department long after this point I have printed my own forms and sent them off but there isn't a chance in hell that it will be renewed in time. It may be prudent to follow this up with another letter asking that you be issued with a Section 7 permit before the end of the month.If you don't get your renewal by then,then they can't say no. Edited November 11, 2012 by Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I told Thames Valley that I had spoken to BASC when the same happened to they promised me a temporary cert shotgun and firearms when I suggested they had a good explanation when BASC phoned that was a Thursday Monday morning 2 new Certs arrived in the post instead of the temporary ones v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I guess S7's are a key performance indicator. Only signed by the manager - its a bit like turkeys voting for Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Edit. Edited November 11, 2012 by ordnance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDown Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Still missing the bit where the police have MADE you break the law. Have they barred you from using an RFD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remy 700 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Excellent posts here , why on earth would you want to pay rfd fees for retention , when you have a legal right to own and hold these weapons , its just clearly unacceptable and naughty of some departments , end of, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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