Punt Gun

[Euilleam]

Has anyone here on the forum ever used a Punt Gun?

[mudpatten]

Yes.

[Jolly]

Not me

[Magus69]

Yes why?.

[Euilleam]

I am at the moment just about to write about the Punt Gun in detail and the operators. Any info that any member has using a Punt gun would be most appreciated.

[mudpatten]

You will forgive my saying this but, if you know so little about punt guns and have to ask about them on an open internet forum, do you really think you are qualified to be writing about them?

[figgy]

You will forgive my saying this but, if you know so little about punt guns and have to ask about them on an open internet forum, do you really think you are qualified to be writing about them?

 

Ha ha classic.

 

Figgy

[Bewsher500]

Well he appears to have a better command of the English language than half the people who seem to be "qualified" on here and has already done more than most who claim to know all about shooting.....

He asked the question about something he does not know and was honest about his intentions.

 

Writers write.

Do you think they are limited to write about only what they have experienced?

Amazon would be a very dull site if they were.

 

OP - search on here for the chap who has just built a stunning gunning punt from scratch.

[mudpatten]

Were that it was that simple.

 

Of all the shooting sports, puntgunning is probably the most sensitive in term of opprtunities for people to wilfully misunderstand what it is all about.

 

In this day and age, despite its commercial origins, punt gunning is not about the number of birds killed yet this continues to be the one facet of it that people like to publicise, especially if they can take it out of it`s historical context and sensationalise it.

 

I`m not suggesting for one minute that the OP intends to do that, but since he`s enquiring on an open forum where, as we all know, anyone can write anything and have it quoted as fact by the ignorant, but I have at least taken this opportunity to give him the heads up for that fact and hope that he will avoid doing that.

 

The OP states that he`s "Just about to write about the punt gun in detail and the operators." There have been thousands of punt guns made and used by as many gunners. What he is attempting to condense into a few words is over two hundred years of history which needs to be put carefully into context, all discussed in a terminology that he patently does not understand.

 

i make no apologies as a practicing punt gunner for hearing alarm bells ringing.

 

And just to illustrate how confused these things can quickly become. The original question was "Has anyone used a PUNT GUN?"

 

With all due respect to the builder of the punt that you mention, for the superb job he made of it, but his punt is a tour de force of the boat builers art. It does not automatically follow that he has any special knowledge of the history of the sport, or experience of punt GUNS, the information that the OP originally asked after.

 

My concern is that, as is so often the case with punt gunning, it will be misrepresented, and ultimately damaged, through ignorance.

 

Research the history of punting by all means. But I would rather not have to try to repair the damage done to the sport by an ill concieved piece cobbled together with highly dubious "facts" gleaned from the internet.

Edited November 20, 2012 by mudpatten

[winchester79]

Were that it was that simple.

 

Of all the shooting sports, puntgunning is probably the most sensitive in term of opprtunities for people to wilfully misunderstand what it is all about.

 

In this day and age, despite its commercial origins, punt gunning is not about the number of birds killed yet this continues to be the one facet of it that people like to publicise, especially if they can take it out of it`s historical context and sensationalise it.

 

I`m not suggesting for one minute that the OP intends to do that, but since he`s enquiring on an open forum where, as we all know, anyone can write anything and have it quoted as fact by the ignorant, but I have at least taken this opportunity to give him the heads up for that fact and hope that he will avoid doing that.

 

The OP states that he`s "Just about to write about the punt gun in detail and the operators." There have been thousands of punt guns made and used by as many gunners. What he is attempting to condense into a few words is over two hundred years of history which needs to be put carefully into context, all discussed in a terminology that he patently does not understand.

 

i make no apologies as a practicing punt gunner for hearing alarm bells ringing.

 

And just to illustrate how confused these things can quickly become. The original question was "Has anyone used a PUNT GUN?"

 

With all due respect to the builder of the punt that you mention, for the superb job he made of it, but his punt is a tour de force of the boat builers art. It does not automatically follow that he has any special knowledge of the history of the sport, or experience of punt GUNS, the information that the OP originally asked after.

 

My concern is that, as is so often the case with punt gunning, it will be misrepresented, and ultimately damaged, through ignorance.

 

Research the history of punting by all means. But I would rather not have to try to repair the damage done to the sport by an ill concieved piece cobbled together with highly dubious "facts" gleaned from the internet.

i am trying to find out where to find the white punters smocks are they just painters smocks or do you use a certain type? any info would be great

thankyou

[joe soapy]

Might not be too relavant but, my mother reckoned no season was complete without my grandfather sinking his punt!

And very little was safe from being stuffed down the barrel, including old horseshoe nails.

also the womans weekly? was the perfect size for wrapping the charge

[mudpatten]

The smock I use is an extra large size, long butchers coverall, cut in half and hemmed just below the backside.

 

It cost about £10 in a work clothing outlet. It`s made of cotton so it only offers protection to your clothing from the mud and dirt. You`ll have to wear warm and waterproof gear underneath it.

 

I`m not too sure about the balistic efficiency of horseshoe nails, an early form of steel shot I suppose, but I can confirm that two of the middle pages from the Daily Mail twisted together and rammed well home made an excellent main driving wad if oakum was in short supply.

 

I`v never used the Womans Weekly but any of those shiny magazine papers makes a good cartridge. ***** the powder cartridge through the touchhole and ram the shot cartridge well home.

[winchester79]

The smock I use is an extra large size, long butchers coverall, cut in half and hemmed just below the backside.

 

It cost about £10 in a work clothing outlet. It`s made of cotton so it only offers protection to your clothing from the mud and dirt. You`ll have to wear warm and waterproof gear underneath it.

 

I`m not too sure about the balistic efficiency of horseshoe nails, an early form of steel shot I suppose, but I can confirm that two of the middle pages from the Daily Mail twisted together and rammed well home made an excellent main driving wad if oakum was in short supply.

 

I`v never used the Womans Weekly but any of those shiny magazine papers makes a good cartridge. ***** the powder cartridge through the touchhole and ram the shot cartridge well home.

hello, i read with interest your comments on sculling crutches, i am building a double punt to replace my single which was past restoration and now my head is spinning with info from various sources. you do describe the crutch being cast out from the side of the craft? is there any chance you could explain to me or post a picture of how the crutch should be fitted? we have a deep water channel to navigate and i would prefer to scull than row or have a 12ft pole to push up with. i would be very grateful for input.

all the best...ian

[mudpatten]

I nearly missed this.

 

Have a quick look back through the other thread for reference details to the appropriate articles on the Langstone WA website.

 

One of them has a pencil drawing of an offset sculling crutch.

 

Basically, cut the shank off an appropriately sized rowlock/crutch and weld it to an iron flat bar of about an inch by a 1/4" substance. Use iron since you might need to bend it to get the best final position and angles, something difficult to do if you use steel.

 

Shape and tidy it up with a file/grinder,drill and countersink two holes in the spur and mount on the side deck in the best position as prevoiusly described in relation to the sculler. Use a substantial metal or wooden backing plate inside the side deck since the stresses imposed by the sculling oar are considerable.

 

The degree of offset depends to some extent on the shape of the punt. About 4 inches is ideal and you might have to juggle with the angle of the actual crutch itself. Not only can you offset it but you can afford to bend it down below the level of the side deck by an inch or two which will mean you don`t have to have your arm so high in the air.

 

An RPG style loose fitting rowlock style sculling crutch is too close to the side deck, too high to best conceal the arm movement and, `cos its loose fitting and can move, it will bang loudly from side to side in it`s socket with the stroke of the oar.

 

The jaws of the crutch should be whipped over and covered with a sewn on leather sleeve which can be greased. The appropriate portion of the sculling oar that comes into contact with the crutch should also be covered in a long leather sleeve and collar tacked in place by small copper roves. When it`s all fitted together properly it should be posssible to scull the punt with a minimal amount of visible movement (unavoidably, there will always be some.) and with no sound apart from the slight creak of the leather.

 

Having said all that, actually learning to scull can be a bit problematic. You really do need someone to show you how to do it since it is impossible to describe verbally.

 

If this is of no help I`ll try to post up some photo`s.

[Lord Geordie]

I am not meaning to start a argument here! But part of your reply does not make sense to me!

 

You wrote, "In this day and age, despite its commercial origins, punt gunning is not about the number of birds killed yet this continues to be the one facet of it that people like to publicise, especially if they can take it out of it`s historical context and sensationalise it."

 

Yet I have read, and heard personally of many an escapade! and one thing came up on quite a few such stories! They wouldn't take a shot due to low numbers of birds! Refering to the shot being too expensive to take a shot, for the sake of 10 birds!

 

If it is NOT about the numbers, surely 10 birds would be fine for someone to discharge the gun at!

 

I understand that each shot can be costly, due to powder charge and the shot medium! and that's why they want to maximise their bag for each shot! So in a way, it IS, about the Numbers! even though it's not in a commercial sense!

 

 

 

Just thought I would add!

 

I am not an Anti punt person! In fact I would have LOVED to have tried it out first hand, as I think it has great historical roots. The whole stalking to get within range, The growing excitement as to grow more near. The anticipation as you pull the cord! It must be an amazing experience!

 

In a way I feel Punt Gunners should be applauded for continuing the tradtion!

Edited February 4, 2014 by Lord Geordie

[mudpatten]

Each to his own as far as numbers are concerned. You`re probably right in what you say. There are other factors to consider though, and I commend the blokes to whom you were talking for their forebearance. By not shooting at the 10 birds they have caused no disturbance whatsoever. There is nothing worse than a big gunner who constantly bangs off at every little trip of fowl he sees.They could probably get a shot of 10 birds quite frequently, but at the cost of significant disturbance.By biding their time they would have got a better return on their investment of time, powder, shot and skill. I`m not entirely sure that they meant that they were waiting for the mega shot of a lifetime.

 

It has to be said that, in some areas, where the birds sit well and, at something like £30 a shot, I might well wait until i could line up a few more.

Edited February 4, 2014 by mudpatten

[Old farrier]

I nearly missed this.

 

Have a quick look back through the other thread for reference details to the appropriate articles on the Langstone WA website.

 

One of them has a pencil drawing of an offset sculling crutch.

 

Basically, cut the shank off an appropriately sized rowlock/crutch and weld it to an iron flat bar of about an inch by a 1/4" substance. Use iron since you might need to bend it to get the best final position and angles, something difficult to do if you use steel.

 

Shape and tidy it up with a file/grinder,drill and countersink two holes in the spur and mount on the side deck in the best position as prevoiusly described in relation to the sculler. Use a substantial metal or wooden backing plate inside the side deck since the stresses imposed by the sculling oar are considerable.

 

The degree of offset depends to some extent on the shape of the punt. About 4 inches is ideal and you might have to juggle with the angle of the actual crutch itself. Not only can you offset it but you can afford to bend it down below the level of the side deck by an inch or two which will mean you don`t have to have your arm so high in the air.

 

An RPG style loose fitting rowlock style sculling crutch is too close to the side deck, too high to best conceal the arm movement and, `cos its loose fitting and can move, it will bang loudly from side to side in it`s socket with the stroke of the oar.

 

The jaws of the crutch should be whipped over and covered with a sewn on leather sleeve which can be greased. The appropriate portion of the sculling oar that comes into contact with the crutch should also be covered in a long leather sleeve and collar tacked in place by small copper roves. When it`s all fitted together properly it should be posssible to scull the punt with a minimal amount of visible movement (unavoidably, there will always be some.) and with no sound apart from the slight creak of the leather.

 

Having said all that, actually learning to scull can be a bit problematic. You really do need someone to show you how to do it since it is impossible to describe verbally.

 

If this is of no help I`ll try to post up some photo`s.

I nearly missed this.

 

Have a quick look back through the other thread for reference details to the appropriate articles on the Langstone WA website.

 

One of them has a pencil drawing of an offset sculling crutch.

 

Basically, cut the shank off an appropriately sized rowlock/crutch and weld it to an iron flat bar of about an inch by a 1/4" substance. Use iron since you might need to bend it to get the best final position and angles, something difficult to do if you use steel.

 

Shape and tidy it up with a file/grinder,drill and countersink two holes in the spur and mount on the side deck in the best position as prevoiusly described in relation to the sculler. Use a substantial metal or wooden backing plate inside the side deck since the stresses imposed by the sculling oar are considerable.

 

The degree of offset depends to some extent on the shape of the punt. About 4 inches is ideal and you might have to juggle with the angle of the actual crutch itself. Not only can you offset it but you can afford to bend it down below the level of the side deck by an inch or two which will mean you don`t have to have your arm so high in the air.

 

An RPG style loose fitting rowlock style sculling crutch is too close to the side deck, too high to best conceal the arm movement and, `cos its loose fitting and can move, it will bang loudly from side to side in it`s socket with the stroke of the oar.

 

The jaws of the crutch should be whipped over and covered with a sewn on leather sleeve which can be greased. The appropriate portion of the sculling oar that comes into contact with the crutch should also be covered in a long leather sleeve and collar tacked in place by small copper roves. When it`s all fitted together properly it should be posssible to scull the punt with a minimal amount of visible movement (unavoidably, there will always be some.) and with no sound apart from the slight creak of the leather.

 

Having said all that, actually learning to scull can be a bit problematic. You really do need someone to show you how to do it since it is impossible to describe verbally.

 

If this is of no help I`ll try to post up some photo`s.

[Old farrier]

Hi mud patten

Post the pictures on scull point please

I don't wish to disagree but as iron is no longer available and is all but impossibl for the ameture to weld to it would be far simpler to make from mild steel

Also caution should be used when welding your crutch to the ( iron) as most were galvanised and omit toxic fumes when heated above 600 degrees

Welding heat 1250 mild steel iron 950 to 1000 depending on age

Please post picture to help all future builders

And to any builders I am happy if you care to send me working drawing and dimensions to forge you exactly your requirements

I'm better at that than building punts

Hope this helps

All the best

Of

[Lord Geordie]

Each to his own as far as numbers are concerned. You`re probably right in what you say. There are other factors to consider though, and I commend the blokes to whom you were talking for their forebearance. By not shooting at the 10 birds they have caused no disturbance whatsoever. There is nothing worse than a big gunner who constantly bangs off at every little trip of fowl he sees.They could probably get a shot of 10 birds quite frequently, but at the cost of significant disturbance.By biding their time they would have got a better return on their investment of time, powder, shot and skill. I`m not entirely sure that they meant that they were waiting for the mega shot of a lifetime.

 

It has to be said that, in some areas, where the birds sit well and, at something like £30 a shot, I might well wait until i could line up a few more.

I can see your point! I had this idyllic image of a lone punt on the marsh! I seemed to have forgotten there will likely be a few out at a time, on the same water! So I understand why you would get a little niggled, if shots were to ring out time and time again, lifting the birds and making them rather weary!

 

I can also see why people would choose to hang back and wait for a larger group before tugging on the lanyard! After all, £30 for the shot! Plus fuel to get there etc makes it a rather expensive past time. Still, it must be an amazing challange to get within range, without spooking them off. You must have nerves of steel? My stomach would be in knots in anticipation, and the closer I got I would get worse.

 

Not to mention the braving of icy weather, bitter fingers and numbness! I have a great deal of respect for Punt gunners! What they sometimes put themselves through to get that shot off is unbelievable. We fair weather shooters would just pack up and go home!

 

ATB

Edited February 4, 2014 by Lord Geordie

[mudpatten]

Old farrier, I happily bow to your superior knowledge of all things metal.

 

Sorry for the sloppy terminology. I think I may have meant mild steel.

 

If I can find them, I have some 150 year old blacksmith made sculling crutches which might be interesting to look at. They are infinitely superior to the construction method that I described, and have used, in the absence of a blacksmith.

 

Do you know what a pair of punt outriggers look like?

Edited February 4, 2014 by mudpatten

[Old farrier]

Hi

Thanks I am aware of what they look like but as this is a open forum I think if you could post some picture or plan it would help those that don't a picture is worth a thousand words I would enjoy looking at your old sculling crutches and reval at the way they were made by hammer and hand riveted and fire welded using bellows and punches

Post some pictures to help others

All the best

Ofspent longer uploading this than making it I think this should give the younger members of what mud patten is talking about

Note this was not made to fit or to dimensions only as a example of the different types of fittings used in different areas

Hope it helps

Of

Edited February 4, 2014 by Old farrier

[mudpatten]

Is that style of crutch bracket one that traditionally comes from your neck of the woods?

 

I have`nt seen one exactly like that before but it looks like an excellent idea.

[Bobba]

Might not be too relavant but, my mother reckoned no season was complete without my grandfather sinking his punt!

And very little was safe from being stuffed down the barrel, including old horseshoe nails.

also the womans weekly? was the perfect size for wrapping the charge

Fascinating subject. A question from a lack of knowledge please. My shotguns use cartridges so, if I have a blank day, I eject the cartridges and the gun is empty. If you have a blank day with a punt gun how do you clear a muzzle loader? Thank you.

[mudpatten]

The short answer is that you don`t.

 

Once you`ve removed the percussion cap the gun is relatively safe.

 

You could use the worm screw on the ramrod to draw the entire charge but thats a labourious process, especially if the gun is stored in a warm, dry environment.

 

Having said all that, it is still possible to have a near fatal accident with a muzzle loader if you`re an idiot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like me!

[Penelope]

Yes, read about that.

 

The short answer is that you don`t.

 

Once you`ve removed the percussion cap the gun is relatively safe.

 

You could use the worm screw on the ramrod to draw the entire charge but thats a labourious process, especially if the gun is stored in a warm, dry environment.

 

Having said all that, it is still possible to have a near fatal accident with a muzzle loader if you`re an idiot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like me!