Deer with shotgun?

[MG6065]

Just read that you can kill deer with a shotgun as long as its AAA? Surely this can't be true? Shotguns and deer??

[M.I.A]

Under certain circumstances, yes. But you have to REALLY justify your actions, Be kind and just use a rifle!

Edited November 27, 2012 by M.I.A

[MG6065]

Yeah totally, little bit unfair. But to be honest you can hit foxes pretty hard so I'm sure deer would be ok, not keen on trying it

[marktattoo]

Would only consider this in such likes as humane dispatch, such as a rta other wise as a routine then I would recommend better stuff as laid out in the deer act

[.philmypower.]

I believe overseas they use shotgun on driven deer and boar days. They use a solid slug

[robbiep]

Go here :

 

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/police/firearms/HO-Firearms-Guidance.pdf?view=Binary

 

Chapter 14. Some quotes (with my notes in bold) below

 

Deer (England and Wales)

Section 4(2) of the Deer Act 1991

prohibits the use of certain types of firearm

for the purpose of taking, killing or injuring

deer. These are set out in Schedule 2:

Firearms: any smooth-bore gun; any rifle

having a calibre of less than .240 inches

or a muzzle energy of less than 2,305

joules (1,700 foot pounds); any air gun,

air rifle or air pistol

 

There are exemptions :

14.4 Section 6(5) provides that a person is

not guilty of an offence under section 4(2)

by reason of the use as a slaughtering

instrument, to prevent the suffering of an

injured or diseased deer, if they use for the

purpose of killing any deer a smooth-bore

gun which:

a) is of not less gauge than 12 bore;

B) has a barrel less than 24 inches (609.6

millimetres) in length; and

c) is loaded with a cartridge purporting to

contain shot none of which is less than

.203 inches (5.16 millimetres) in diameter

(size AAA or any larger size).

There are other exemptions and conditions, and the law in Scotland is different again.

 

Basically though, if you go out, put a AAA load in a shotgun and fire it at a deer, you commit an offence. A rifle is the only suitable weapon

[robbiep]

Oh, seriously though. Every shooter should take the time to go and read that Home Orifice guidance. It is very clear about what you can and cannot do, and what the various Police Firearms Licencing depts can and cannot do as well. Read it. Be informed

And I have no idea why the previous post has a smiley. Probably punctuation

Edited November 27, 2012 by robbiep

[.philmypower.]

Good advice, I wasn't condoning it, was just stating that I believe it is done overseas.

[Catweazle]

The BASC guidance doesn't mention barrel length.

 

"If a shotgun is to be used, the following conditions apply

It must be not smaller than a 12 bore;

AAA shot ONLY may be used, or

A single non-spherical projectile weighing

not less than 22.68 grammes (350 grains)

Note that a firearms certificate is required to

purchase such ammunition."

[Vince Green]

Just how do you intend to get close enough to a deer to shoot it with AAA , SG or LG ? You would have to be no more that 25yds to be humane allowing for the incredibly ragged groups these large shot sizes produce.

 

Slugs will go out to 100yds (maybe) but my experience with accuracy on these things is that, in general, most people with most guns using slugs wouldn't be able to group it anywhere near well enough at 100 yds.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Vince Green

[Catweazle]

I used to carry a couple of 50g AAA when in my woods in case I came across one tangled in the deer fence. I never did.

[robbiep]

I used to carry a couple of 50g AAA when in my woods in case I came across one tangled in the deer fence. I never did.

Now that makes a lot of sense. As the guidance says, there are a few occasions where it is legitimate to do just that.

 

Surprising as it may seem to some people (and even I am surprised, at times), the law is generally reasonable. Yes, there are some restrictions that don't really make sense, but a lot of the time, you can carry out 'reasonable' actions, to protect crops or livestock, to prevent suffering, and the law will back you up.

[coyotemaster]

Just how do you intend to get close enough to a deer to shoot it with AAA , SG or LG ? You would have to be no more that 25yds to be humane allowing for the incredibly ragged groups these large shot sizes produce.

 

Slugs will go out to 100yds (maybe) but my experience with accuracy on these things is that, in general, most people with most guns using slugs wouldn't be able to group it anywhere near well enough at 100 yds.

You are right for the most part Vince. Shotgun slugs have plenty of energy and they and muzzleloaders are all that are legal in some states (supposedly for safety---probably the deer's). My experience with slugs has been dismal, with well hit animals getting away. I prefer the bow as it is much more effective. There are sabotted slugs used in rifled slug barrels that shoot around 1.5" @ 100yds, and some smooth bores will throw them pretty accurately as well(not sabots)---usually choked no tighter than 1/4 choke.

[Dekers]

Go here :

 

http://www.homeoffic...pdf?view=Binary

 

Chapter 14. Some quotes (with my notes in bold) below

 

Deer (England and Wales)

Section 4(2) of the Deer Act 1991

prohibits the use of certain types of firearm

for the purpose of taking, killing or injuring

deer. These are set out in Schedule 2:

Firearms: any smooth-bore gun; any rifle

having a calibre of less than .240 inches

or a muzzle energy of less than 2,305

joules (1,700 foot pounds); any air gun,

air rifle or air pistol

 

There are exemptions :

14.4 Section 6(5) provides that a person is

not guilty of an offence under section 4(2)

by reason of the use as a slaughtering

instrument, to prevent the suffering of an

injured or diseased deer, if they use for the

purpose of killing any deer a smooth-bore

gun which:

a) is of not less gauge than 12 bore;

B) has a barrel less than 24 inches (609.6

millimetres) in length; and

c) is loaded with a cartridge purporting to

contain shot none of which is less than

.203 inches (5.16 millimetres) in diameter

(size AAA or any larger size).

There are other exemptions and conditions, and the law in Scotland is different again.

 

Basically though, if you go out, put a AAA load in a shotgun and fire it at a deer, you commit an offence. A rifle is the only suitable weapon

 

This does not tell the Whole story, you need to read 14.5 as well!

[Dekers]

Yeah totally, little bit unfair. But to be honest you can hit foxes pretty hard so I'm sure deer would be ok, not keen on trying it

 

What is unfair, attempting to shoot a deer 100 yards away with a 12g, so attempting to shoot one 1000 yards away with a .243 isn't?

 

Any calibre, and any tool must be used within it's capabilities, and a shotgun with the right cart will put a deer down just fine in the right circumstances.

 

It's been legal for years, in fact I'm struggling to remember when it wasn't legal. (no doubt someone will go and find out and tell me) The 1991 Deer Act spelt it out clearly though.

 

[Catweazle]

I just read the document referred to above, there is no barrel length issue when deer are shot for crop protection.

 

in this instance a person would not be

 

guilty of an offence under section 4(2)(a)

by reason of the use, for the purposes

of taking or killing any deer on any

land, of any smooth-bore gun:

• of not less than 12 bore which is

loaded with:

1) a cartridge containing a single

non-spherical projectile weighing

not less than 22.68 grammes

(350 grains); or

2) a cartridge purporting to contain

shot each of which is .203 inches

(5.16 millimetres) in diameter

(size AAA).

[al4x]

There are times the shotgun is actually the perfect tool, though I prefer the rifle I have been party to trying to clear muntjac out of a fenced area by driven shooting. With the right cartridges it is pretty startling how well they do the job, for a deer at close range either road accident or stuck in a fence a shotgun is the perfect tool. Close up it matters not what cartridge you use either

[Bewsher500]

Just how do you intend to get close enough to a deer to shoot it with AAA , SG or LG ? You would have to be no more that 25yds to be humane allowing for the incredibly ragged groups these large shot sizes produce.

 

Slugs will go out to 100yds (maybe) but my experience with accuracy on these things is that, in general, most people with most guns using slugs wouldn't be able to group it anywhere near well enough at 100 yds.

 

last three deer I shot with a rifle were all under 30yds (roe and red)

I could happily have shot them with a 12 bore

[Redgum]

I have now butchered three Muntjac with shotgun pellets in the skin, seems there are those that will take a pot shot at one if the chance arises.

[wildfowler.250]

I understood it that you can shoot them with a shotgun if they are doing crop damage?

Surely the crop damage is pretty vague so it would be quite hard to stop someone if they wanted to?

Close range a shotgun would be lethal.

[Dekers]

I understood it that you can shoot them with a shotgun if they are doing crop damage?

Surely the crop damage is pretty vague so it would be quite hard to stop someone if they wanted to?

Close range a shotgun would be lethal.

 

It is much wider and Vaguer than that.............

 

"........damage to crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber, or any other form of property................"

[al4x]

Just remember you are still under cruelty legislation so you need to be pretty certain of a kill.

[Dekers]

Just remember you are still under cruelty legislation so you need to be pretty certain of a kill.

 

It is a valid point but one I never understand...why don't you ever hear this about rifles in larger calibres?

 

If you start lobbing shots at mice in the next county with your .308 the exact same thing applies.

 

Use ANY calibre/ammo/gun within it's capabilities, and even then there is NO guarantee on an instant kill, and some green anti may still find a way of having a go!

[wildfowler.250]

 

 

It is much wider and Vaguer than that.............

 

"........damage to crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber, or any other form of property................"

 

Thought so! I think you could probably crack on and be legal. Surprised more people don't do it.

 

 

Before anyone mentions it I have 'appropriate rifles'.

[Dekers]

Thought so! I think you could probably crack on and be legal. Surprised more people don't do it.

 

 

Before anyone mentions it I have 'appropriate rifles'.

 

Very probably (hopefully) because they use the shotgun within it's capabilities, and in most situations reach for a rifle when they go out after the deer rather than a shotgun as the most appropriate tool!