timps Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 You are quite right….Shooting is part of daily life and I also shoot with both eyes open. However most sports men and women have both eyes open with complex hand eye coordination in a vast array of sports and I have yet to see a set of beads on a fencing foil, tennis racket, cricket bat and a set of darts! A friend of mine shuts one eye and does quite well, however he just gets on with it and has lots of hits and plenty of misses. From what I read and see with shooters the minute they are having a bad patch then someone mentions eye dominance and a second can of worms is opened then what little confidence the shooter had has been lost for a long time….. TEH Here is a link I posted sometime ago that goes through eye dominance and sport. http://www.texasarch...yedominance.pdf Basically some sports such as tennis are not affected by dominance but some such as shotgun shooting are. The thing is you can shoot with cross dominance, all you have to do is learn the sight picture. The trouble is this over complicates the shooting, different leads for left to right than right to left, having to shoot teals to one side rather than pushing the gun trough them. If your eyes swap (weak dominance) then what looks right one shot might change the next so screws your consistency. If you look at all the very best shots in the world their handedness matches their dominance, there are a couple that don’t (Carl Bloxham springs to mind) but they do use a method to overcome. I don’t know of anybody that has reached the top who is cross dominant and doesn’t employ a method to deal with it. I read all the time that a friend of a friend is cross dominant and can do this and that but how does he compare to the world’s best? What targets is he/she shooting? I have seen Ed shoot clays with a browed gun, one handed and at arm’s length, just as I have seen others shoot from the hip. But I doubt you would win a major championship employing these methods, it’s a parlour trick a gifted shot can do but they shoot better using their correct method. My point is, if you just want to have a knock about then dominance probably does not matter, you probably could hit more than you miss. But if you want to progress to the best of your ability in this sport you are going to have to deal with the issue. The last bit I stay out of as there are countless ways to do it but you will find one that works for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 Look at US pistol shooting and ask why do they mostly use an eye patch? and why do some use left hand and right eye and vice versa? Eye dominance, its not somethign to look at in a drop in fomr but a hurdle to overocme early on I did this by changing hand to match eye, many struggle on without, a mate has total central vision (most women have no eye dominance) so it is not an issue for all, but is for many.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooMRoTT Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 HDVA .. Talks sense I bought the gun , then started researching the problem cost be time and money . Too much ******** on this subject . If you want to progress you need to shoot where you look . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdSolomons Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 Pistol shooting and shotgun shooting are leagues apart. Master eye problems do cause big issues for some, but more often than not it is a flaw in technique or miss reading targets that causes most misses. But not many people like admitting that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 Pistol shooting and shotgun shooting are leagues apart. Master eye problems do cause big issues for some, but more often than not it is a flaw in technique or miss reading targets that causes most misses. But not many people like admitting that.... Perhaps i have always had a stronger and dominant left eye something i have known about for probably 20 years shotgun shooting (and pistol) are the only time it really effects me but if i am tired or have a really poor mount then the right can try and take over at this stage i see 2 barrel images in my peripheral vision. Until i had a damn good lesson on gun fit eye dominance mount and stance i didnt understand it either..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaserF3 Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Look at US pistol shooting and ask why do they mostly use an eye patch? and why do some use left hand and right eye and vice versa? Eye dominance, its not somethign to look at in a drop in fomr but a hurdle to overocme early on I did this by changing hand to match eye, many struggle on without, a mate has total central vision (most women have no eye dominance) so it is not an issue for all, but is for many.......... Pistol shooters wear a patch so that you shoot with both eyes open instead of having to close one. It's much more relaxing and natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezC Posted January 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Lots of interesting posts and some good advice here. So it looks like I need to book a quality lesson with a renowned coach and start as I mean to go on. I had intended to make this my main hobby, so I might as well get it correct off the bat as they say. Now who to choose in the Exeter / Devon area is the next hurdle, although I am more than happy to travel. It would be good to combine a lesson with a gun fit and maybe even a gun purchase at the same time. Wez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Now who to choose in the Exeter / Devon area is the next hurdle, although I am more than happy to travel. It would be good to combine a lesson with a gun fit and maybe even a gun purchase at the same time. Wez In my experience Dennis stepney UK gun repairs in Wellington is the man to go and see, good no none sense advice at a reasonable price as he is also a gun smith he can advise on the fitting of a gun without pushing you to what is in stick at the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canis Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) You are quite right….Shooting is part of daily life and I also shoot with both eyes open. However most sports men and women have both eyes open with complex hand eye coordination in a vast array of sports and I have yet to see a set of beads on a fencing foil, tennis racket, cricket bat and a set of darts! A friend of mine shuts one eye and does quite well, however he just gets on with it and has lots of hits and plenty of misses. From what I read and see with shooters the minute they are having a bad patch then someone mentions eye dominance and a second can of worms is opened then what little confidence the shooter had has been lost for a long time….. TEH TEH while i can't comment about tennis raquets, cricket bats and darts et,c I'd advise that you that while a fencing foil does not have a sighting beads attached, you set the angle of the blade to the handle to match the fencer. This is a black art similar to gunfit that encompasses several elements of fit, but one of the lkey ones is ensuring that the point of the blade is exactly where the fencer peceives it to be. (Please excuse the pedantry of a former fencing coach:lol:) Frankly i think it stands to reason that all sport/activities that involveinteracting with objects in three dimensional space , eye dominance is an issue, its just that our sport is one where it is fundamentally important. Edited January 3, 2013 by Canis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangeclay Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 There is a new approach to solve cross domince and is called " XDSolution" You can shoot from your handedness side and use both eyes to establish the gun-target relationship! If the dot,tape and patch cuts down the binocular vision to monoculat vision, the XD Solution will keep it in place. Keeps the shooter's eyes free and in use only when the shot is taken. Great for clays and hunting! http://xdsolution.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted January 17, 2013 Report Share Posted January 17, 2013 Does it use a wheel barrow with some plastic tubes taped on? If not, I am not interested at all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangeclay Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) Only for those interested: Looking at all the options for blockers, like dots, tape, patches, the XD ( which is a semi blocker) is the most tolerant on "aiming" b/c the eyes remain free, compared with the others ones that "force" you to aim.(one eye shooting). The XD will preserve your binocular vision and will give you the visual potential (free eyes) to focus better on the target. Allowing the light to be perceived by both of your eyes, will also give you the natural visual comfort, that will help you to avoid fatigue and headache. If you have used tapes, dots or patches that killed your binocular vision over the time, when shooting, switching to XD and liberating your eyes is a sensation of relief that many encounter. Some get used to it on the spot and for others it takes longer, but the outcome is net superior to dots, tapes or patches. The functionality of the XD can be understood considering its position related to the eyes: in front and between them, which makes the XD to be a semi blocker. It will not allow the dominant or cross firing eye to see the barrel but it does permit the target to be seen from the beginning to the end. The peripheral vision is in place, so important for your timing. The XD is something new that beats the classical dot, tape and patch by concept and functionality. Edited January 23, 2013 by Orangeclay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Lots of interesting posts and some good advice here. So it looks like I need to book a quality lesson with a renowned coach and start as I mean to go on. I had intended to make this my main hobby, so I might as well get it correct off the bat as they say. Now who to choose in the Exeter / Devon area is the next hurdle, although I am more than happy to travel. It would be good to combine a lesson with a gun fit and maybe even a gun purchase at the same time. Wez I will not be attempting to sell you a gun. I will not be charging you for lessons/coaching. I have no axe to grind. I am in Exmouth and am happy to meet up and help you work out what's what before you get in a muddle - could even go to the sportsman and have a run through their stock to see what might suit and why. I am now retired but qualified as A BASC coach back in '86 The offer is there should you want to make use of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil3728 Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 wymberley, thats is such a good offer, When I was looking at buying my first gun. I met my coach at a locla gun shop and he helped check me for gun fit. It just goes to show the way this forum works, and just how friendley some people are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukkat Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 wow, lots to read on here, but for the record i shoot with both eyes open, and predomenantly i shoot with a sbs, i know that i have a "Lazy" left eye which can some times affect me picking up the clays crossing, i have overcome this knowing my gun and shooting naturally as i call it, (i cant shoot Jack **** if i close my left eye for some reason) but if i move to my O&U then i have to think, moral of the story i suppose is do what feels right for you, try a few different guns including SBS O&U and Single barrels, get a decent fit, (it is no good throwing the gun up in your shoulder in the gun shop, ask people at a clay groud if you can have a go with theirs, i have been asked many times and i dont mind and im sure that many people on here would let you have a couple of shots through theirs. its a bit all over the place but i hope you get the idea. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WezC Posted January 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 I will not be attempting to sell you a gun. I will not be charging you for lessons/coaching. I have no axe to grind. I am in Exmouth and am happy to meet up and help you work out what's what before you get in a muddle - could even go to the sportsman and have a run through their stock to see what might suit and why. I am now retired but qualified as A BASC coach back in '86 The offer is there should you want to make use of it. Thank you very much for the offer, didn't see this till I had already bought a gun. I have bought a Lanber (cheap for now), and am getting out there and just firing a few off to see how I get on. I seem to be able to hit everything going away or coming toward me at the moment, but the crossing targets are giving me stick. I have had one lesson, which didn't go well, but it's a long story. I am trying to keep both eyes open at the moment. If you fancy joining me shooting at Ashcombe or you are going anywhere I could join you, I am up for whatever advice / opinions I can get. Many Thanks, Wez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGM Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 I tried closing my left eye and was hitting alot more, last stand was 20 of 25 hit, before i was always missing to the left alot on the incomings and too much in front with the R->L chaser, tried experimenting as it was my first real shoot and wanted to see what worked, the closing of the left eye was it. I think i surprised the guys i was with, was actually hitting more after lunch than the guy whose gun i was using did and he has been shooting for a year now. Only downside was i wasnt seeing the L->R chaser coming until too late. Should i try the dot on the glasses to try and correct it or speak to the Instructor? If i did try i assume its really just a round sticker that you can buy in any stationers? Where would it generally be positioned? If anyone knows exactly. Seems alot of money to buy a kit that just seems to be a few stickers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 If you fancy joining me shooting at Ashcombe or you are going anywhere I could join you, I am up for whatever advice / opinions I can get. Many Thanks, Wez. I would suggest you PM him and get a conversation going re sorting out a meet, a free of charge offer like this won't come up every day mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 I tried closing my left eye and was hitting alot more, last stand was 20 of 25 hit, before i was always missing to the left alot on the incomings and too much in front with the R->L chaser, tried experimenting as it was my first real shoot and wanted to see what worked, the closing of the left eye was it. I think i surprised the guys i was with, was actually hitting more after lunch than the guy whose gun i was using did and he has been shooting for a year now. Only downside was i wasnt seeing the L->R chaser coming until too late. Should i try the dot on the glasses to try and correct it or speak to the Instructor? If i did try i assume its really just a round sticker that you can buy in any stationers? Where would it generally be positioned? If anyone knows exactly. Seems alot of money to buy a kit that just seems to be a few stickers. In short, yes, a dot from a stationers would work, but will peel off if it gets wet. It will however tell you what you want to know ie, if it might be a sloution for you. It needs to be positioned so that it blocks off your view of the last few inches and the bead of the barrel. So you can mount the gun, close your left eye and check you are all lined up correctly, then close your right eye and open your left without moving your head or gun. You should be able to see everything but the end of the barrel and whatever else the dot has blocked. I find I can keep most of my periperal vision, and it doesn't impinge when I'm looking at someone. I am looking under it when stood chatting etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangeclay Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 UGM, if you are serious about shooting you should thry the XDS. you won't be sorry! You shoot from your handedness side and with both eyes open. You can't ask fopr more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGM Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 UGM, if you are serious about shooting you should thry the XDS. you won't be sorry! You shoot from your handedness side and with both eyes open. You can't ask fopr more! Is it 1 per gun or are they easily swopped from 1 gun to another? Are they available here in UK or only from USA on that link you provided? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGM Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 Just tried the test suggested on the XDS site and it was pulled back to my right eye and i am right handed, so i assume that i am right eye dominant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangeclay Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 UGM, there are two types of XDS 1) standard , one per gun, . The list of guns is on the website http://xdsolution.com/ 2) adjustable, working on any gun that has a trigger guard. Right now only from USA. Yes, you are right handed, but to learn more about your dominance grade ,I suggest to see a doctor. Regarding the XDS,, the big advantage of it is that you can shoot from your handedness side, very important to execute a correct pointing of the gun and in same time to use both of your eyes when you establish the gun- target relationship., so important to to percieve correctly the coordinates of the target: depth, velocity, angle. Compared to dots, tapes, wink,your eyes are free from any blocker, the light reach both eyes and the result is that you get a relaxed eye comfort and better visual focus! The most important thing you get from using the XDS, is that, even you encounter cross dominate eyes or cross firing,you are able to eliminate your " handicap" and shoot like any other " visualy normal " guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 In short, yes, a dot from a stationers would work, but will peel off if it gets wet. It will however tell you what you want to know ie, if it might be a sloution for you. It needs to be positioned so that it blocks off your view of the last few inches and the bead of the barrel. So you can mount the gun, close your left eye and check you are all lined up correctly, then close your right eye and open your left without moving your head or gun. You should be able to see everything but the end of the barrel and whatever else the dot has blocked. I find I can keep most of my periperal vision, and it doesn't impinge when I'm looking at someone. I am looking under it when stood chatting etc. Events overtook us - Wez had acquired a gun before he saw my post, has now had a lesson and has actually managed to hit some birds. Should he have a problem then he knows that he just has to sing out. With regard to the dot, as I have a dedicated pair of shooting glasses, I use Tippex - or similar correction fluid - this gives the opportunity to apply the smallest possible but effective patch on the inside of the lens. The trick is not to forget to allow for overhead targets. Beware of armchair coaching - stress can affect the situation and for a novice in particular, shooting can be stressful. It's much better to confirm this phenomenon with gun to the shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ears Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Try both eyes shut. Just jokeing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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