Countryside Alliance info on Taxing Beaters pay

[Hodmedod.one]

The Countryside Alliance has received numerous questions regarding the introduction of RTI (Real Time Information) and how this affects paying casual labour such as beaters. RTI is a system introduced by HMRC to capture all relevant payroll information each time an employee or worker is paid for their services. From April 2013, employers will be legally required to report PAYE in real time. This means that information about all PAYE payments needs to be submitted to HMRC online each time a payment is made as part of the payroll process, rather than at the end of the year as they are now.

HMRC has confirmed that they are moving away from previously established procedures for casual workers to simply focus on whether someone has been paid or not. The onus is on the employer to comply with this system and there will be penalties for failure to do so.

Currently HMRC will not give comment specific to the shooting industry; they just say that RTI is applicable to casual workers. However, we have been consulting with our advisors and the following information will hopefully be of use to those who have questions on this topic. Hopefully in time we will be able to get a clearer picture on this issue.

• This forces the issue of deciding whether someone should be classified as employed or self-employed. If they are paid through RTI this indicates that they are an employee and if they are not then the implication is that they are self-employed.

• As before the introduction of RTI; this will come down to a question and interpretation of fact. If an ‘employer’ is making any payment to a worker, this must be reported via RTI unless the ‘employer’ has satisfied themselves that the individual is self-employed. This will come down to whether they feel able to justify and demonstrate this to HMRC if questions were asked

• In the shooting industry it is common for some of the participants to be regarded as self-employed i.e. the gamekeeper or the pickers up and there are established ways in which this is demonstrated. However, this is rarely the case for beaters.

• For RTI, payments to these beaters should be recorded and reported before the payment is made. This will also be the case if many benefits-in-kind are received by the individuals (a Christmas party, a free shoot day or lunch for example).

• It is all about what you would feel happy demonstrating to HMRC. For increased certainty, both the shoot and the individual should take steps to ensure that there is documentary or other evidence to support the position that you take.

• For completeness, if a beater attends the shoot on an ad-hoc basis as a volunteer and there is clearly and demonstrably no intention to pay the beater or reward him in any way then there will be nothing to report under RTI and there is no employment relationship. Inviting the same individual as a guest to shoot with you later in the season should be regarded as a separate matter as not provided under a contractual or implied relationship between employer and employee.

• The problem would come if this practice was adopted for every beater and on a regular basis; again it is about the factual picture building up that HMRC could argue amounted to a benefit in kind ad indicated an employer/employee relationship. If a pattern emerges then you must be able to demonstrate clearly that this should not amount employment.

The Countryside Alliance will continue to monitor this situation and update accordingly. More information can be found on the HMRC website:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/rti/index.htm

[Dunkield]

You would have thought they had bigger fish to fry i.e. clamping down on Starbucks & Co, than taxing pensioners on their £25/week beating money.

[PhilR]

You would have thought they had bigger fish to fry i.e. clamping down on Starbucks & Co, than taxing pensioners on their £25/week beating money.

 

Agreed.

[al4x]

You would have thought they had bigger fish to fry i.e. clamping down on Starbucks & Co, than taxing pensioners on their £25/week beating money.

 

and what are the odds that by the time they have input the data and chased money it costs them 5 times the amount they receive to collect it.

[Canis]

Surely the asnswer will lie with classing beaters as volunteers and giving them a per diem to cover expenses

[leeds chimp]

Surely the asnswer will lie with classing beaters as volunteers and giving them a per diem to cover expenses

or while you are beating you stumble across a few quid on the floor

[darren 67]

If you can show accounts as to keeping a dog for 12months not just the season fuel clothing boots and the like would you be in for a rebate as a days beating money don't cover all that much.

[kev56]

or while you are beating you stumble across a few quid on the floor

[rimfire4969]

The big question is where does it stop. Next asking the keeper / shoot owner where the cash came from to pay the beaters then the names of the guns who paid the cash, then ask the gun where his cash came from and so it goes on.

[Dunkield]

How about you get given a brace of birds and then sell back to the shoot for £25?

[Andy135]

How about you get given a brace of birds and then sell back to the shoot for £25?

 

Then you'd have to pay the income tax on the value of the birds as a benefit in kind, before you could sell the birds back and then get hit with the paperwork governing selling of game etc, plus you'd still have to pay tax on any income gained from the sale of the brace.

 

In effect you'd get taxed twice...

[matone]

Good o`l Blighty !

[David BASC]

Morning All,

 

There have been no changes to the tax laws; we have always been liable to pay tax on earned income.

 

The HMRC is changing the reporting system, now employers have to tell HMRC in real time who worked for them on which day and what they were paid.

 

This will allow HMRC to see if individuals are in the correct tax band, or of course, heaven forbid, spot someone who is claiming some sort of benefit and working too…

 

Its great the CA have put this out to set the minds of shoot captains working and further guidance will be coming from BASC in the March issue of Shooting & Conservation.

 

As they say, there are only two certainties in life, Death & Taxes

 

 

David

[NobbyHall]

HMRC has previously left payments to beaters alone as they considered any 'payment' as a reward and that the individual's (the beater) costs would be likely to match their outgoings. The introduction of RTI is the biggest change to the PAYE tax regime in the last forty years and based on advice on HMRC website the estate owner should determine whether a beater/picker up should be considered as an employee, and therefore deduct tax and NI and be liable for employer's NI, or as self employed. The HMRC site provides guidance as to employment status and I would have thought that beaters and lockers up could be classified as self employed, however I suspect there will be much discussion on this, probably better to wait for formal advice via the Countryside Alliance.

 

I doubt whether HMRC has the capacity to liaise with other govt departments responsible for the administration of benefits. They certainly have not done so in the past. The only body that has done this, albeit in a limited capacity, was the Audit Commission. The AC (on an annual basis) took payroll data from all local govt and NHS bodies (and its own payroll data) to compare against some benefits, housing and council tax benefit, immigration status, etc as part of their National Fraud Initiative.

 

As said above, tax is one of the certainties of life.

[NobbyHall]

Sorry for the typo, should say PICKERS UP and not LOCKERS UP. Clearly should have reviewed post before posting

[Davyo]

They will have the capacity once RTI and the new one benefit system are up and running together.They already check child tax credit/Working tax credit annual declaration against the NPS system to verify if the income declaired on the declaration matches the P60 the employer submitted at tax yr end

Edited January 30, 2013 by Davyo