gazzthompson Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) It is legislation drafted and enacted by the political equivilent of the lynch mob . Sounds exactly like the people here! For now, Ill always vote in favor for the ECHR.... what else do i have to protect my rights? The goverment? The good will of the ever so sensible public? no thanks. Edited April 11, 2013 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Sounds exactly like the people here! For now, Ill always vote in favor for the ECHR.... what else do i have to protect my rights? The goverment? The good will of the ever so sensible public? no thanks. You don't have any rights, what you have are " privileges" afforded to you by those in power to maintain the illusion of freedom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 You don't have any rights, what you have are " privileges" afforded to you by those in power to maintain the illusion of freedom Correct, And i would like to protect what little "privileges" i have. and the ECHR seems to be best we have at the moment, As i say what else do we have? The populist political whim of politicians ? no thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Britian is now ruled by laws written by people whom we cannot hold to account or vote from office. Firstly the ECHR was based largely on British bill or rights and those righs are the very same ones that we hold in our constituion, secondly and more importantly there is not a judge in the country that can be voted out of office because they are outside of politics, thirdly, the people that make the laws, or at least pass new laws are democratically elected. No court can suddenly change the law without parliament agreeing. Do you feel the same way about the International War Crimes Court as you do with th ECHR? Or is it just the word Europe that you don't like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daks Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Lock him in a room with the childs family and let justice ensue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 The UCHR is undemocratic because it cedes authority over large areas of Briton's legsilature to a body which is not answerable to the British people. The act which surrendered legal sovereignty may have been passed democratically in Parliament but it leaves a settlement which is profoundly undemocratic and therefore illgitimate. Britian is now ruled by laws written by people whom we cannot hold to account or vote from office. That is not the deal. It was a political stunt intended to establish a continental legislature as a precurser to the founding of a superstate. Our society's laws have been used as pawns in a wider political game. If that isn't hi-jacking I don't know what is. Hegemony? Lock him in a room with the childs family and let justice ensue. You really consider that justice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Cutting this right back to the underlying issues.... We are stuck with a lot of overly complex, irrational, expensive to administer human rights legislation that in reality does nothing to protect the reasonable people living in this country. All it serves is to protect those who are of no value to us, are often as not a drain on our resources and in many present a very real danger to us and our way of life. The majority of people don't seem to want this as is understandable and I'm really struggling to understand why some who seem in favour of it feel that not having it would be a threat to their own safety? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Why do people want human rights? is that what your asking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitey10765666 Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 It seems like its only criminals that got human rights, And sex offenders get away with not paying the so called bedroom tax,, what a world we live in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 whats someone not in the EU doing here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 As much as Im for the death penalty for pedos and murderer's, you can't just start taking away human rights applied to all people! You still have to treat them / trial them under there rights and THEN if found guilty punished suitable! I fear the day when they start taking away certain people's / groups rights as then its just a domino effect till we all have none! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 It seems like its only criminals that got human rights, And sex offenders get away with not paying the so called bedroom tax,, what a world we live in. I see you used the word seems, but really? Seriously?? Are you saying that children used as say, soldiers or slave labour are criminals? How about women abused by men? What are your thoughts on genocide, disability, human trafficking? All OK because they happen elsewhere? You are right, what a world we live in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsdad Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 I see you used the word seems, but really? Seriously?? Are you saying that children used as say, soldiers or slave labour are criminals? How about women abused by men? What are your thoughts on genocide, disability, human trafficking? All OK because they happen elsewhere? You are right, what a world we live in! These things didn't happen in the early part of the 20th century in Great Britain before we had the EU and their silly laws being imposed upon us, so why would anyone think that leaving the ECHR would make them come back or mean that British people would suddenly be ruled by a tyrannical government? It wouldn't. We need to make our own laws and stop Europe'a laws being used by criminal and general low lifes in order to protect themselves or remain in the UK living off hard working tax paying, law abiding British people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 These things didn't happen in the early part of the 20th century in Great Britain before we had the EU and their silly laws being imposed upon us..... Really, a lot of them are still happening HERE AND NOW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsdad Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) Really, a lot of them are still happening HERE AND NOW. And how is the EU helping the victims? By protecting the culprits in too many cases... Edited April 11, 2013 by oscarsdad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 And how is the EU helping the victims? By protecting the culprits in too many cases... Again, why are we bringing the EU into it? All the ECHR did was to decide if British law was broken, and it was. The UK authorities are the ones that should be looking after the victims and the ECHR should never get involved if every protocol is followed correctly. It isn't perfect by any means but the UK has one of the lowest number of successful applications out of all of the nearly 50 nations that signed up to accept the court, which is something to be proud of. There will always be one or two cases that seem to go against natural law but they are only won because of failures by the UK justice system to deal with problems correctly first time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Marty Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 As I said before I work with this type and they really seem to have more rights than the rest of us..We can hardly look at them but there making a official Complaint.Sad thing is authorities seem to take there word over ours every time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) Firstly the ECHR was based largely on British bill or rights and those righs are the very same ones that we hold in our constituion, secondly and more importantly there is not a judge in the country that can be voted out of office because they are outside of politics, thirdly, the people that make the laws, or at least pass new laws are democratically elected. No court can suddenly change the law without parliament agreeing. Do you feel the same way about the International War Crimes Court as you do with th ECHR? Or is it just the word Europe that you don't like? I never said judges could be voted out of office nor that they can make up law on the hoof. They administer justice and pass sentence within the framework of laws passed by Parliament. If we don't like the rulings of judges we can lobby MPs to change the law or we can vote against those MPs who don't agree with us. Except we can't, because our Parliament is no longer sovereign. If there are laws we don't like and which we feel are harming our society, we have no democratic recourse to change them because Parliament cannot overturn rulings from the ECHR. Parliament may have a vote on proposed ECHR legislation but if when passed that legislation proves a shambles, as laws often do - it is not an exact science - we are stuck with them because while we may vote them in we may not vote them out. Its the ratchet system, precisely the same as emplyed by the EU in its surreptitious dismantling of the nation state, which is hardly surprising since the two institutions share the same architects. Sounds exactly like the people here! For now, Ill always vote in favor for the ECHR.... what else do i have to protect my rights? The goverment? The good will of the ever so sensible public? no thanks. If you have no faith in elected government, nor in the essential decency of your fellow citizens, you have no faith in democracy. It is an imperfect concept but infinitely preferable to bureaucracy or autocracy. I commend to you the utopian societies of Burma and North Korea for the avoidance of doubt. Personally I have no faith in 'rights', especially 'my rights'. I an not the centre of the universe. If people placed their responsibility to others ahead of the expectation of personal priviliege 'rights' would take care of themselves. Edited April 11, 2013 by Gimlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 What are feelings on the International war crimes court? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 What are feelings on the International war crimes court? The International War Crime Court and the ECHR are different concepts. The key word is international. THe IWCC is supra-governmental, the ECHR is quasi-governmental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapalomablanca Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 As much as Im for the death penalty for pedos and murderer's, you can't just start taking away human rights applied to all people! You still have to treat them / trial them under there rights and THEN if found guilty punished suitable! I fear the day when they start taking away certain people's / groups rights as then its just a domino effect till we all have none! We have had the magna carta long before all this hype. They make it sound like we cant exist without their human rights laws, well we have for donkeys years. Its why they signed that document at runnymede 500 odd years ago. Dont believe all this human rights hot air, our rights have always been protected, it's only criminals and their protectors who want and benefit from the human rights act. Its just a society wrecking instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 The populist whim of politicians has given us draconian gun laws and a pathetic excuse for "freedom of speech" among other things. I will gladly accept another layer of protection (ECHR, written constitution) over what we have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 unapalomablanca - You are right. I can't think of many genuine people who have benefitted from the Human Rights Act, but am aware of many who hide behind it. gazz - you don't half write some drivel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castletyne Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 The populist whim of politicians has given us draconian gun laws and a pathetic excuse for "freedom of speech" among other things. I will gladly accept another layer of protection (ECHR, written constitution) over what we have now. see another thread The un elected in Europe would like to take guns away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 unapalomablanca - You are right. I can't think of many genuine people who have benefitted from the Human Rights Act, but am aware of many who hide behind it. gazz - you don't half write some drivel. Cherie Blair? Ah no, you said genuine didn't you. No I give up. I can't think of any either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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