Screw cutting and the law.

[mr smith]

So if you had the skill to reduce the length of your sound mod would you lock up the bit you've removed????

[DaveK]

So if you had the skill to reduce the length of your sound mod would you lock up the bit you've removed? ???

I think maybe this thread will have arms as well as legs ........................................

[CharlieT]

No it isn't. It's classed as a firearm. That's why it's entered onto your certificate in the firearms sections and why you can only have one if you have a slot for it on your ticket.

If you read my post again you will see that I stated they come in the part of the act that includes them in the term firearm.

However, the act states that they are an accessory and goes on to describe such an accessory which is designed to diminish sound.

 

Thus they are an accessory which the firearms act include in the term firearm.

 

I hope that clarifies the situation for you.

[Big Mat]

 

 

As I said in my first post on this thread, I DON'T KNOW, but I thought threaded offcut barrels were controlled.

 

I don't see why a 10" (or frankly any length) of, for example .22lr chopped rifled barrel is not a barrel in its own right for a revolver, and therefore a component part of a firearm!

 

These are my feelings, it makes sense to me.

 

Can anyone find any reference to this in any of the Firearms Acts, obviously some here say it is a firearm and others say it isn't, there must be some documentary evidence to support one or the other claim!

 

Would it not need machining to fit a revolver?

[CharlieT]

 

I have a letter sitting infront of me from firearms dept that says ,and i quote "please be aware that sound moderators constitute a component part"

 

And I have a letter from the Home Office confirming they are an accessory and are defined as such in the firearms act.

Perhaps your firearms department should use the correct terminology as per the firearms act rather than making it up.

 

So are we going halves on a crate of Stella then?

 

I'm doing my best to ensure you win !!

[DaveK]

If you read my post again you will see that I stated they come in the part of the act that includes them in the term firearm.

However, the act states that they are an accessory and goes on to describe such an accessory which is designed to diminish sound.

 

Thus they are an accessory which the firearms act include in the term firearm.

 

I hope that clarifies the situation for you.

I wasn't asking. I was replying to Mr Smith's post . It may say that in the Act but it's an accessory classed as a firearm in it's own right. Otherwise why do you need a variation to acquire one and if you sell one why does the purchaser need a slot and once sold why do you need a variation to be able to get another one?

 

I hope that clarifies the situation for YOU me old mate. And make it a crate of Stella and a crate of Grolsch. i have a thirst.

 

dunno what happened there. All I did was edit the damned thing as I thought it sounded a bit confrontational and this is what it did. No sense of fair play if you ask me.

 

But a mod's still a gun.

 

Still wrong. Soddit I'm off on a mobile patrol. Off home in an hour anyway - NEED SLEEEEP

Edited May 18, 2013 by DaveK

[welshwarrior]

I don't know if the off cut is controlled or not I can see both arguments here and hope it isn't make live easier.

 

But a similar lines question are barrel blanks controlled ie need something to buy them???

[CharlieT]

Dave,

 

It's doing it to me too and I'm on my computer..............Danger, gremlins about trying, to spoil my fun.

 

see it just added my seperate post to welshwarrior to mine to you !!!

I don't know if the off cut is controlled or not I can see both arguments here and hope it isn't make live easier.

But a similar lines question are barrel blanks controlled ie need something to buy them???

 

Unchambered barrels are not subject to firearms control.

Edited May 18, 2013 by CharlieT

[Scully]

Unusual ................... VERRRRRY unusual for me to jump to Jonathan's defence but I think you're being a wee bit menstrual. Again, and I'll not make a habit of it, i agree with much of what Jonathan has posted and, in fact, rather than him having lost the plot as you suggest, I suggest in this case he has actually found it.

 

Now pick your teddy back up and play nice, this is (or was) a well delivered topic. I'm certainly interested but just in case ------ SCULLY, can you get me a bag as well please? And maybe we can go halves on a nice crate of Stella or Grolsch.

Now there's a thought;I DO like Grolsch.

[Vince Green]

Utter rubbish, I'm afraid. No one doing this work would 'log' a piece of chopped barrel in his register. To be honest, I think that any police force would suspect that an RFD of taking the piddle if they did this.

 

For the reasons previously mentioned; the chopped off piece of barrel is not subject to control. It is merely a piece of metal tube. You do not committ an offence by possessing it.

 

J.

This is correct, anyone who owns an air rifle has a rifled barrel in his possession. You used to be able to buy barrel blank back in the old days without a licence. they were subject to no control what so ever. I don't suppose you can still do it now because of this strange need to micro manage every aspect of shooting. Similarly, when a dealer scrapped a rifle he just wrote "scrapped" in the register. Nobody asked what happened to the bits.

 

There is no technical reason for a gun to be reproofed because it has been screw cut, its almost a joke to suggest it should. As somebody else said its work creation.

 

However, when was the last time you heard of anyone getting prosecuted for selling an 'unproofed' gun?

[Vince Green]

But a similar lines question are barrel blanks controlled ie need something to buy them???

They never used to be, can't speak for whats happening now

[Vince Green]

Ok, in a lot of cases rifle calibres are not pistol calibres, but some are (commonly .22lr of course), a 10" Rifled tube is a barrel (a component part) of a revolver!

 

...a 1" rifled offcut could also be a barrel for a snub nose revolver, so personally I see it as a barrel!

 

I'm not arguing with anyone on this subject, but it does ask some questions!

Every .22 air rifle has a 10" .22 rifled barrel. Every 'exempt calibre' rifle has a rifled barrel. A lot of old muskets have a rifled barrel. You can buy an original cap and ball revolver. None of these require a licence.

[welshwarrior]

If you can buy a barrel blank without a license then you can hold the off cut without I've just read the firearm act bits and I'm off the opinion that it has become a non component part until some puts a chamber in it or fits it to a chamber for example a revolver frame/cylinder

[JonathanL]

 

 

Ok, in a lot of cases rifle calibres are not pistol calibres, but some are (commonly .22lr of course), a 10" Rifled tube is a barrel (a component part) of a revolver!

 

...a 1" rifled offcut could also be a barrel for a snub nose revolver, so personally I see it as a barrel!

 

I'm not arguing with anyone on this subject, but it does ask some questions!

 

It can't be though because if it has no facility by which to attach it to a firearm (which a simple piece of tube would not) then it is not a component part.

 

If that 1" piece of barrel has a thread at one end which happens to match the thread on the frame of a Smith & Wesson .22 revolver then that is an entirely different matter.

 

J.

 

 

 

 

Ok, in a lot of cases rifle calibres are not pistol calibres, but some are, a 10" Rifled tube is a barrel (a component part) of a revolver!

 

I'm not arguing with anyone on this subject, but it does ask some questions!

 

Perhaps until it's fitted to a revolver it's still just a tube.There's nothing quite so clear cut as our firearm laws.

 

 

It's quite clear. If you can fit it to the revolver then it's a component part and, hence, a firearm.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

 

If the part is RIFLED , By Law it would be CLASSED as Barrel, no matter how long it is:

 

 

 

 

Could you please quote a source of law for that statement?

 

My Mate Had a bulge Cut out of his 357 Magnum, The part was NOT given back back because of the Law the way it Stands, and no it is not Bull **** and why are you being so Insulting in your Post, I think You have lost the plot, Probably, because you do not know the law of the Land:

Rant over, Please do not post again on this subject, you show yourself up:

 

 

 

 

 

Like I say, feel free to quote the particular legal provisions relating to this matter.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

You are still incorrect. Anyone can own a tube with some grooves in it. It only becomes a controlled part if it has had a chamber cut!

 

And (to be my usual pedantic self) it is actually capable of being atached to a firearm.

 

J.

Edited May 18, 2013 by JonathanL

[JonathanL]

 

So a rifled barrel for a revolver with NO chamber cut in it isn't a barrel and isn't controlled?

 

Discuss!

 

It has a threaded end to enable it to be attached to the revolver frame. Chop off the threaded part and it would no longer be able to be atached (and so is functionally redundant) so would cease to be a component part and therefore is not subject to control.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

OK

 

Where does a moderator fit into all this ?

 

It is not rifled, has no chamber cut into it and certainly cant propel a bullet by itself YET......

 

It is classed as a component part of a firearm and is classed as such by licensing.

 

No. It's because the definition of 'firearm' in the Act includes 'any accessory to a firearm designed or adapted to reduce the noise or flah upon firing'. Hence, such an accessory is a firearm in its own right, rather than being a component part of a firearm. A baffle from a moderator would be a component part.

 

J.

 

It is not classed as a component part but rather as an accessory to a firearm.

Moderators are not specifically named in the act but come under the part of the act that includes them in the term firearm which includes any accessory designed to diminish noise or flash.

Therefore firearms licensing are obliged to treat them as a "firearm" in their own right.

 

 

Beat me to it.

 

J.

 

 

I have a letter sitting infront of me from firearms dept that says ,and i quote "please be aware that sound moderators constitute a component part"

 

Then that letter is wrong.

 

J.

 

No it isn't. It's classed as a firearm. That's why it's entered onto your certificate in the firearms sections and why you can only have one if you have a slot for it on your ticket.

 

Yes, because an accessory to a firearm which is designed to reduce the noise or flash is a firearm in its own right.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

I don't know if the off cut is controlled or not I can see both arguments here and hope it isn't make live easier.

 

But a similar lines question are barrel blanks controlled ie need something to buy them???

 

No.

 

J.

[subsonicnat]

"I Feel A Quote Coming on"

Cat Among the pigeons so to speak: .

[JonathanL]

"I Feel A Quote Coming on"

Cat Among the pigeons so to speak: .

 

Still waiting for you to present evidence as to why a piece of tube with rifling in its bore is subject to control as a firearm.

 

J.

[subsonicnat]

 

Still waiting for you to present evidence as to why a piece of tube with rifling in its bore is subject to control as a firearm.

 

J.

I do not have to produce evidence, ask your firearms officer next time he visits, tell him you will be cutting your RIFLED Barrel off by 2" and then tell him you are going to KEEP It: you will find without a shadow of Doubt you will have to put it down as a variation or Scrap it Legally:

As for the comments on Silencers or sound moderators, attach one to your rifle and let the FEO see it without a ticket, you will soon find the answer to that too: Hmmm.

Edited May 18, 2013 by subsonicnat

[fortune]

This is correct, anyone who owns an air rifle has a rifled barrel in his possession. You used to be able to buy barrel blank back in the old days without a licence. they were subject to no control what so ever. I don't suppose you can still do it now because of this strange need to micro manage every aspect of shooting. Similarly, when a dealer scrapped a rifle he just wrote "scrapped" in the register. Nobody asked what happened to the bits.

 

There is no technical reason for a gun to be reproofed because it has been screw cut, its almost a joke to suggest it should. As somebody else said its work creation.

 

However, when was the last time you heard of anyone getting prosecuted for selling an 'unproofed' gun?

I completely agree with JonathanL on this. Subsonicnat is just plain wrong. If a small piece of scrap barrel constitutes a part 1 firearm then anyone that is in possession of a .22 air rifle is in possession of a firearm also. It is all down to a point of what is in the public interest and in the real world no one is going to put down cash to take this to court. Imagine submitting a bit of tube in front of a judge and trying to show that it was a lethal weapon. You might as well put a piece of iron ore on the bench and say if that is processed it becomes a weapon. Sub chill out man. Take the dog for a walk it is much more important than wasting time on this rubbish.

[Dekers]

Every .22 air rifle has a 10" .22 rifled barrel. Every 'exempt calibre' rifle has a rifled barrel. A lot of old muskets have a rifled barrel. You can buy an original cap and ball revolver. None of these require a licence.

 

Maybe, and of course there are specific exemptions in the Firearms Acts, but we are talking about pieces of rifled barrel that have been cut off tools listed on your FAC!

Edited May 19, 2013 by Dekers

[Dekers]

I'm right, your wrong seems to be whats happening here, can someone past a specific section of the Firearms Act to support their case and stop the debate!

Edited May 19, 2013 by Dekers