Cellar as a gun safe?

[double10]

Hi all,

We're hoping to get our SGCs soon so will need to be looking at a gun safe. Our house used to be a car garage so in our kitchen floor we have an old inspection pit which has since been floored over and turned into a small cellar with a heavy metal hatch to go down into it. We were thinking that instead of buying a safe and putting the safe in the cellar, would it be possible to turn the cellar itself into the safe? My father wants to put a magnetic lock on it with a keypad built into a cupboard near it and the hatch has no external handles etc to open it with.

so would it be possible to turn the cellar into a safe?

cheers

[Imperfection]

I think the criteria when building a gun room is no windows,brick built walls and steel plated door with 5 lever locks or equivalent so you're very close to that spec already.

 

Speak to your FEO and see what they say.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Imperfection

[HDAV]

Personally i would be concerned about damp, not good for guns. Maglocks are easily beaten if you know what you are doing with the wiring as above you can find the specs for a gun room door but normally mulitple locking points are required. When FEO does your face to face interview show him the cellar and your plans and see what he thinks.

[flynny]

Cant see why not mate, as said just ask your FLO, it sounds a hell of a lot better than a 3mm steel cab fixed to a wall etc,

 

ATB

 

Flynny

[double10]

thanks guys, the mag lock isn't a definite although my father want's to put one on anyway to protect the wine etc. I'm sure we could put on a bolting system instead though and it's all solid brick down there. As far as I'm aware it's not particularly damp?

[HDAV]

Oh and making the cellar a gun cabinet means no one else (apart from cert holders) can have any access to it all........

[double10]

Oh and making the cellar a gun cabinet means no one else (apart from cert holders) can have any access to it all........

that's not a problem as my dad and I are the only people who would need to go into it

[al4x]

guns would need to be on both certificates in that case. Personally i would fit a cabinet anyway as it is so much simpler if you are going to want to access the area for wine etc.

[CharlieT]

Just think how toys you can collect.

 

This will tell you all you need to know........https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/117636/firearms-security-handbook.pdf

[double10]

guns would need to be on both certificates in that case. Personally i would fit a cabinet anyway as it is so much simpler if you are going to want to access the area for wine etc.

ah but he wants to put a lock on the cellar anyway so if there's a party or something that nobody can get at the wine etc

[Steel100]

Also, have a look at the Home Office pamphlet /download on security advice - pretty comprehensive. I think that you can get it via the BASC site.

 

Andy

[CharlieT]

Also, have a look at the Home Office pamphlet /download on security advice - pretty comprehensive. I think that you can get it via the BASC site.

 

Andy

You mean the link I gave in post 9 !!

[robbiep]

I'd be most concerned about dampness with using the pit as a gunroom, or with putting a gun cabinet down there.

The problem with a maglock is that the FEO has to be happy with it's operation and failsafe, that it is difficult to defeat, etc. If not, then he MAY be reluctant to sign it off.

Contrary to what others have said, you do NOT need to have all the shotguns on both certificates if sharing facilities. Myself and my wife share a cabinet, and, according to North Wales Police, there is an understanding that we are happy for each other to use any of the shotguns. The 72 hour rule is the only rule that would ever come into play.

 

All told, I'd probably get a proper gun cabinet and install it somewhere in the house. A lot less hassle, probably cheaper, and you don't suffer the possibility of finding a fine film of rust over everything.

[Big Mat]

I'd be most concerned about dampness with using the pit as a gunroom, or with putting a gun cabinet down there.

The problem with a maglock is that the FEO has to be happy with it's operation and failsafe, that it is difficult to defeat, etc. If not, then he MAY be reluctant to sign it off.

Contrary to what others have said, you do NOT need to have all the shotguns on both certificates if sharing facilities. Myself and my wife share a cabinet, and, according to North Wales Police, there is an understanding that we are happy for each other to use any of the shotguns. The 72 hour rule is the only rule that would ever come into play.

 

All told, I'd probably get a proper gun cabinet and install it somewhere in the house. A lot less hassle, probably cheaper, and you don't suffer the possibility of finding a fine film of rust over everything.

If both you and your wife have keys to the cabinet, then she and you have access to shotguns that are not held on your certificate all the time, so you'd be well over the 72 hour rule and probably braking the law.

[welshwarrior]

If both you and your wife have keys to the cabinet, then she and you have access to shotguns that are not held on your certificate all the time, so you'd be well over the 72 hour rule and probably braking the law.

Me and my wife do this as well but according to Thames Valley Hampshire and Surrey police they don't have to be on both SGC it's all police interpretation of the law again

[robbiep]

If both you and your wife have keys to the cabinet, then she and you have access to shotguns that are not held on your certificate all the time, so you'd be well over the 72 hour rule and probably braking the law.

A shotgun should (according to NWP FEO) only ever be on one SGC. By their reckoning, having it on 2 makes the administration of law VERY complicated if you ever sell a gun, as it looks like 2 sales to all the systems. One serial number, one SGC, unless there are compelling reasons to do otherwise.

I actually agree with them. I do not generally 'loan' my gun to my wife, or vice versa, but if she wishes to borrow it, then it is tacitly understood (by the fact that we both have independent access to the cabinet) that she is welcome to do so. Only at the point of her taking a gun on my SGC out of the cabinet does the 72 hour 'loan period' allowed for in legislation start, before we would need to notify.

You might not agree, but this is the way that NWP have chosen to interpret the law. Welshwarrior has stated that 3 other police forces (Thames, Hanpshire and Surrey) also view the law in this way, so I think we can assume that it has some validity.

 

 

You may want to look at where you have come up with your interpretation of the law, and advise us of the source.

[welshwarrior]

A shotgun should (according to NWP FEO) only ever be on one SGC. By their reckoning, having it on 2 makes the administration of law VERY complicated if you ever sell a gun, as it looks like 2 sales to all the systems. One serial number, one SGC, unless there are compelling reasons to do otherwise.

I actually agree with them. I do not generally 'loan' my gun to my wife, or vice versa, but if she wishes to borrow it, then it is tacitly understood (by the fact that we both have independent access to the cabinet) that she is welcome to do so. Only at the point of her taking a gun on my SGC out of the cabinet does the 72 hour 'loan period' allowed for in legislation start, before we would need to notify.

You might not agree, but this is the way that NWP have chosen to interpret the law. Welshwarrior has stated that 3 other police forces (Thames, Hanpshire and Surrey) also view the law in this way, so I think we can assume that it has some validity.

 

 

You may want to look at where you have come up with your interpretation of the law, and advise us of the source.

My guns are also on other SGC as well though so father and father in law can borrow them on the farms as and when.

[goodo123]

I don't think they would like the shared use aspect, not so much that two people will have access but that your going to be storing wine etc. I can understand people locking valuables in a safe but in this case they might see it as more likely to be left unlocked or other people are more likely to know where you store your firearms

[Steel100]

You mean the link I gave in post 9 !!

Yes, exactly!! That's what comes from speed reading; oops!

[JonathanL]

A shotgun should (according to NWP FEO) only ever be on one SGC. By their reckoning, having it on 2 makes the administration of law VERY complicated if you ever sell a gun, as it looks like 2 sales to all the systems. One serial number, one SGC, unless there are compelling reasons to do otherwise.

I actually agree with them. I do not generally 'loan' my gun to my wife, or vice versa, but if she wishes to borrow it, then it is tacitly understood (by the fact that we both have independent access to the cabinet) that she is welcome to do so. Only at the point of her taking a gun on my SGC out of the cabinet does the 72 hour 'loan period' allowed for in legislation start, before we would need to notify.

You might not agree, but this is the way that NWP have chosen to interpret the law. Welshwarrior has stated that 3 other police forces (Thames, Hanpshire and Surrey) also view the law in this way, so I think we can assume that it has some validity.

 

 

You may want to look at where you have come up with your interpretation of the law, and advise us of the source.

 

No it doesn't. It might give them slightly more work but it's not complicated. Lots and lots of people do it. It is the only way to stay on the right side of the law. It's one of those situations where nothing will happen until something happens.

 

J.

[double10]

right, we got our SGCs (at last! ) and the FEO came over and said all we need to do is stick in a securicord or a cabinet if we want more than one gun.

[figgy]

Lucky you

 

As others have said in any cellar damp is a problem, you will only notice it when your guns rust and the wood moves with the humidity.

 

If your definite on using the pit/cellar put a waterproof lining in or a dehumidifier above with a duct running into cellar to keep it right.

 

Best of luck and enjoy your purchases.

 

Figgy