panoma1 Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Ross, I'm sure that one of the mod's will be along to answer that question, but in many cases I am not surprised that the threads are being closed. Quite a few have descended into making blatant accusations towards BASC in particular, based purely on subjective opinions, and I think that is unacceptable on an open forum. Whilst I accept this is correct, I suggest a lot the problem is born out of pure frustration, if BASC kept their membership informed and were more candid it would not allow this frustration to fester and develop into suspicion, shooters see the ongoing seemingly unchallenged bias, unfairness and corruption of process of the LAG and are rightly deeply concerned, as this is a massive issue for shooters...........but shooters are not being given any hard information as to what BASC are doing in response! Human nature says.........If it looks as though they are doing nothing and they ain't telling us what they are doing........they're probably doing nowt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Grrclark, You are right to a point, This is a pinned Lead shot campaign thread which is still running, Ours is possibly the only forum where BASC still have a representative that tries to explain the comings and goings, A lot of the closed threads where verging on bullying, which we don't allow. There is no conspiracy going on, Everyone gets a fair shout providing they stick to the forum rules. If you still aren't happy with the answers from DavidBASC then can I suggest to take it up with BASC direct. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 I will always do my best to answer questions when I can in an open and honest way I will also defend BASC's position against unfounded and false claims, I can assure you the anti BASC theories on lead and other issues that crop up on here are baseless. Think logically for a moment, why would the largest shooting organisation in the UK do anything that could be to the detriment of shooting... Specifically I can also assure all the despite what some may think, BASC has done more than any other organisation to defend lead shot over several decades and we will continue to do so and work with the other shooting organisations to that end Now can we please return to the point of this thread and please keep trying to get every shooter you know to sign and encourage their friends to sign Thank you David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossEM Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 I will always do my best to answer questions when I can in an open and honest way I will also defend BASC's position against unfounded and false claims, I can assure you the anti BASC theories on lead and other issues that crop up on here are baseless. Think logically for a moment, why would the largest shooting organisation in the UK do anything that could be to the detriment of shooting... Specifically I can also assure all the despite what some may think, BASC has done more than any other organisation to defend lead shot over several decades and we will continue to do so and work with the other shooting organisations to that end Now can we please return to the point of this thread and please keep trying to get every shooter you know to sign and encourage their friends to sign Thank you David PM'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I will always do my best to answer questions when I can in an open and honest way I will also defend BASC's position against unfounded and false claims, I can assure you the anti BASC theories on lead and other issues that crop up on here are baseless. Think logically for a moment, why would the largest shooting organisation in the UK do anything that could be to the detriment of shooting... Specifically I can also assure all the despite what some may think, BASC has done more than any other organisation to defend lead shot over several decades and we will continue to do so and work with the other shooting organisations to that end Now can we please return to the point of this thread and please keep trying to get every shooter you know to sign and encourage their friends to sign Thank you David I suggest a lot the problem is born out of pure frustration, if BASC kept their membership informed and were more candid it would not allow this frustration to fester and develop into suspicion, shooters see the ongoing seemingly unchallenged bias, unfairness and corruption of process of the LAG and are rightly deeply concerned, as this is a massive issue for shooters...........but shooters are not being given any hard information as to what BASC are doing in response! Human nature says.........If it looks as though they are doing nothing and they ain't telling us what they are doing........they're probably doing nowt! David, until BASC give an answer to panoma1 post above these accusations will continue. It maybe convenient for BASC to have the other threads on Lead closed, & also you wanting this thread to be kept on track, but members want answers........ surely you can see that.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 BASC have no power or authority over which threads stay open or are closed, this has been clearly explained by the mods on several occasions Any update on the lead shot issue will be published on the BASC web site and in the members magazine DERFA are under no obligation to do anything with the LAG report, and until the final report is published and any indication of what DEFRA plan to do there is little more to say, however i can assure you that any unfounded allegation resulting in a request to restrict the use of lead further will be challenged in the most robust way possible, as we have done, successfully, over several decades At the moment there no proposal in front of Parliament to restrict lead shot further, but should there be any indication BASC will be in pole position to rebut So what more can BASC tell you? So lets stick to keeping on top of this and keep spreading the word so more and more shooters sign up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demonwolf444 Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I signed a long time ago. We know the only way the shooting community can achieve anything is by standing together, as an aware proactive and unified community, and as the community ages more and more people will be "online" and able to get involved with these petitions and such. The laws the law, stand together, suck it up, campaign for common sense law. Crying over spilled milk over what should have or could have or was not said 30 years ago is pointless a lot of people are jumping on the back of this movement to make the shooting community more unified so that we can be better represented in the future all divisions within the community aside surely standing together is the best and easiest way for our collective voice to be heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Just over 14,000 signatures out of 130,000 BASC members is truly pathetic, apathy will see us doomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 How big is the wild fowling community? I genuinely don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Just over 14,000 signatures out of 130,000 BASC members is truly pathetic, apathy will see us doomed. Sorry I thought the lead campaign was a BASC one then I saw the other organisations involved and words fail me that only 14,000 odd shooters have signed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Sorry I thought the lead campaign was a BASC one then I saw the other organisations involved and words fail me that only 14,000 odd shooters have signed up. I was disappointed to see that none of the home clay shooting organisations are listed on the petition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossEM Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 BASC have no power or authority over which threads stay open or are closed, this has been clearly explained by the mods on several occasions Any update on the lead shot issue will be published on the BASC web site and in the members magazine DERFA are under no obligation to do anything with the LAG report, and until the final report is published and any indication of what DEFRA plan to do there is little more to say, however i can assure you that any unfounded allegation resulting in a request to restrict the use of lead further will be challenged in the most robust way possible, as we have done, successfully, over several decades At the moment there no proposal in front of Parliament to restrict lead shot further, but should there be any indication BASC will be in pole position to rebut So what more can BASC tell you? So lets stick to keeping on top of this and keep spreading the word so more and more shooters sign up David, did you receive my PM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Ross, Many apologies, yes I did get the PM. We will do all we can to keep members and indeed others up to speed with wants going on. An alternative report, with input by BASC, CA, GTA et al has been presented to DEFRA as reported in ST today, but as this officially went from the ex chair of LAG , Barney, its not in the public domain yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) I just received the following from CA through email..... Lead shot - what next? I am happy to be able to update you on where we are with the lead issue following my resignation from the Lead Ammunition Group a few weeks ago. I promised that we were in no way moving away from the issue and can now explain what I mean by that.Two Lead Ammunition Group (LAG) reports have now been presented to Defra. The first report has been tabled by the Chairman John Swift, and is the same report over which we raised over 170 comments and with which we refused to be associated, hence the resignation from the LAG. A second report has now been tabled by the now four ex-members of the LAG. As well as the Countryside Alliance this new group includes the Gun Trade Association, National Game Dealers Association and the Country Land and Business Association, with the support of the British Association of Shooting and Conservation.Our report has made full use of all available scientific material, reached balanced and objective conclusions, and we have made a series of recommendations to Defra based on the evidence presented rather than on any previously held positions as regards the use of lead. We will release the full report in due course once we have received an indication from Defra that they are happy for us to do so. The reports are both now with Defra and it is for Defra officials to decide how to take the matter forward and how to deal with the fractured Lead Ammunition Group. However, we feel quietly confident that the decision from Defra will allow us to continue to move this debate cohesively forward. Barney White-SpunnerExecutive Chairman Edited June 25, 2015 by brett1985 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I just received the following from CA through email..... Lead shot - what next? As well as the Countryside Alliance this new group includes the Gun Trade Association, National Game Dealers Association and the Country Land and Business Association, with the support of the British Association of Shooting and Conservation. Barney White-Spunner Executive Chairman Many thanks for posting. Isn't this a prime example of how a "Joint Association Committee" or "Action Group" could be of benefit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 it is, but the only thing that worries me is that the message holds no clue as to what has been put forward... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 it is, but the only thing that worries me is that the message holds no clue as to what has been put forward... Yep, but the one thing that could probably be said is that it couldn't possibly be any worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Many thanks for posting. Isn't this a prime example of how a "Joint Association Committee" or "Action Group" could be of benefit? Yes it is, but once again BASC look to be on the sidelines, the same as they were on the LAG. Why are they not members of this new group, rather than just 'supporting' them? It beggars belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Yes it is, but once again BASC look to be on the sidelines, the same as they were on the LAG. Why are they not members of this new group, rather than just 'supporting' them? It beggars belief. Yep...you'd have thought the voice of shooting would want to be at the head of the new group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 BASC are certainly not on the side lines, please see a bit more detail of our level of involvement in a message from our Chairman http://basc.org.uk/blog/press-releases/latest-news/basc-statement-on-tabling-of-second-lag-report/ Best wishes David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 BASC are certainly not on the side lines, please see a bit more detail of our level of involvement in a message from our Chairman http://basc.org.uk/blog/press-releases/latest-news/basc-statement-on-tabling-of-second-lag-report/ Best wishes David In view of your comments here: http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/314112-joint-association-committee/ where were the BSSC in all of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 All I see from BASC is a damage limitation exercise. Talk is cheap and a few words on their website in no way makes up for their apparent inaction thru this whole fiasco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 The collegiate approach by organisations is as stated in the BASC press release, and as you can see form the post above it includes organisations that do not sit on BSSC. I cannot comment on the BSSC I can only comment on BASC and reference you to our web site where any updates will be posted. Far from being a damage limitation exercise, it shows how active BASC have been on this issue . Working together we will achieve much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Far from being a damage limitation exercise, it shows how active BASC have been on this issue David, you have been asked what was going on behind the lines, only for it to be met with silence. As well as the Countryside Alliance this new group includes the Gun Trade Association, National Game Dealers Association and the Country Land and Business Association, with the support of the British Association of Shooting and Conservation. It seems to me (correct me if I'm wrong) the "with Support" infers that BASC don't want to be seen doing nothing, so have added their support to this new group, why are you not a member of the new group.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) " I cannot comment on the BSSC I can only comment on BASC " My point is that you did. However, - and I appreciate that this 'group' consisted of those elements that were on, and resigned from, the LAG and as this did not include BASC the Association could not be part of it and could only, therefore, offer its support as detailed, - we can only hope that this joint enterprise proves successful. Edited June 29, 2015 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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