what do you do if pulled by the police?

[Dekers]

Best of luck if you get stopped on the way shooting and they ask to see it then. The pnc check may reveal that you are a shotgun or firearm certificate holder but will give little more information than that, no serial numbers, or in the case of firearms, no information on the calibres held. An average Bobby also won't have access to the national firearms database.

 

So, say that there has been a recent break-in where a shotgun has been stolen, we now have you with a shotgun and no way to link you to the serial number on the item or any proof that you are entitled to carry a shotgun.

 

Police officers have to be accountable for everytime they access the system to do a check, that probably means more paperwork. Far easier to have your certificate, or if you're terrified that if you lose it you'll get a visit from violent thugs, a copy of your certificate with the address blanked out.

 

This was all explained, in detail, by the head of firearms licensing to me after I made a complaint. To me it made perfect sense and, rather than relying on bad advice to never carry it, I will now carry a copy at all times.

 

Bad advice because it cost me an hour round trip, diesel and was an utterly unnecessary inconvenience when I could have simply said 'yes officer, Here's my certificate'.

 

Rural beat officers may be more familiar with people carrying guns but don't assume they all are, or that they all know the best procedure to follow, or that they will all react in the same measured way. Get into urban areas and you can be pretty confident that you will be regarded with more suspicion, so much easier to just show some paper and be on your way don't you think?

 

This topic is meandering all over the place, but ANY Bobby who can request information from the PNC can also request information from the National Firearms Database!

[mick miller]

Incorrect. And I'm assured that that is so by the senior FEO here. Access, at least in Herts, is restricted to very senior officers only, not 'any bobby on the street'. If it were it would quickly fall over.

[al4x]

Herts can do a certain amount I know when I had a vehicle that was registered to the company and I insured it that they knew I was a license holder, as ever I guess it depends if you either get an iffy one or you fail the attitude test. But personally I never carry a cert, they already look pretty trashed with minimal outings

[Dekers]

Incorrect. And I'm assured that that is so by the senior FEO here. Access, at least in Herts, is restricted to very senior officers only, not 'any bobby on the street'. If it were it would quickly fall over.

 

I have been assured of a lot of things by Firearms Licencing Managers, FLO, Police Officers, Armed Response Officers, a couple of Superintendents and a Chief Constable, it has then been my unfortunate duty to tell them all how to do their job.

 

I'm not sure why it would fall over in Herts, it doesn't in Thames Valley.

 

So, you are saying your average bobby sees a guy with a gun in a field in Herts, and can't access the National Firearms Database, he has to ask his Boss, perhaps Herts just don't trust their beat bobbies to access the NFD?

 

Just after the National Firearms Database eventually got going I was stopped by two Police straight out of Police Training College. I had to tell them about the National Firearms Database, after someone cranked up the starting handle on it in Thames Valley they were happy to have learned something!

Edited August 1, 2013 by Dekers

[GingerCat]

When r u running for pcc then Dekers, after all you are clearly superior to every copper in the land.

On a serious not the firearms data base is restricted and access audited. pnc show u r a licence holder but not what guns or conditions. Carry a copy or the cert and get over it. Your are not special.

And as we are all human I can assure you that whilst dealing with you with respect and also regard to the law it maynot go down well if u tell me my job, in the last decade I have yet to encounter any one outside of it that can do it.

Also I didn't always do this job so don't suppose I have no experience elsewhere.

 

As for this topic hasn't it gone on long enough.

[Dekers]

When r u running for pcc then Dekers, after all you are clearly superior to every copper in the land.

On a serious not the firearms data base is restricted and access audited. pnc show u r a licence holder but not what guns or conditions. Carry a copy or the cert and get over it. Your are not special.

And as we are all human I can assure you that whilst dealing with you with respect and also regard to the law it maynot go down well if u tell me my job, in the last decade I have yet to encounter any one outside of it that can do it.

Also I didn't always do this job so don't suppose I have no experience elsewhere.

 

As for this topic hasn't it gone on long enough.

 

 

Nope, only the ones that are wrong, unlike many people in the world who are scared to question their own shadow, if someone is wrong I will not stand there and take it, even if it is a Chief Constable. I have met a number of very reasonable Police, and actually shoot with 2 serving Police officers, and a FLO from the Met.

 

For clarification, several mentioned in #154 who I have put right were not warranted officers but civilians, and the majority, including the Chief Constable were Wiltshire, only one in Thames Valley.

 

That Chief Constable has now gone, so has a FLO in both regions, perhaps more for all I know....... (I know...... it wasn't all down to me)

 

...and I forgot to mention I also straightened out the Wiltshire Police Force Solicitor as well.

 

...and this topic has definitely run its course..............

[Gordon R]

Dekers - a good note to end it on.

That said - this is another thread which has made me stop and think about the topic and how it affects me.

No bad thing.

[happypig]

Incorrect. And I'm assured that that is so by the senior FEO here. Access, at least in Herts, is restricted to very senior officers only, not 'any bobby on the street'. If it were it would quickly fall over.

 

 

Sorry mate,

 

Take it from the horses mouth that any bobby can do a check on the NFLMS ..... knowing about it is a different matter.

 

PNC reveals the presence of a license..... followed up live time if the officers are aware. It is not every bobbies core business.....

 

A bit like asking a criminal law solicitor to conveyance your house or deal with tax

[mick miller]

Don't apologise to me, I was just passing on the local info from the senior FEO here, also a bobby who served for some thirty years. Perhaps he was having me on, perhaps not.

 

Either way, i'll be carrying my cert in future, or a copy of it, just in case I come across another jobsworth in blue without the necessary wherewithal to work it all out. It'll save me time, diesel and hassle.

[GingerCat]

Try running a check outside normal office hours, not many feo's work night shifts, as they are the only one to have access its far easier to carry a copy of your cert. Why make life complicated.

[JonathanL]

Try running a check outside normal office hours, not many feo's work night shifts, as they are the only one to have access its far easier to carry a copy of your cert. Why make life complicated.

Taking that a step further; how many bobbies actually know what an FAC/SGC actually looks like? The complicating factor is that they are often different. The three forces local to me each issue certs that look very different to one another.

 

So, say you had two mates out shooting each from neighboring force areas. They get stopped and each produce their certificate. The two certs look different, and in some cases are even of a different construction. This is going to look highly dodgy, is it not? I mean this never happens with any other official document. My driving licence looks the same as one issued to someone at the other end of the country, as does my passport. However, a SGC or FAC issued to me looks different to one issued to my mate only about 5 miles away and the next force past my mates issues ones which look different again! This ridiculous, quite frankly.

 

J.

[Dekers]

Try running a check outside normal office hours, not many feo's work night shifts, as they are the only one to have access its far easier to carry a copy of your cert. Why make life complicated.

 

 

Did I miss something here, are you suggesting only FEO can access the NFD and during normal office hours?

[The Essex Hunter]

Taking that a step further; how many bobbies actually know what an FAC/SGC actually looks like? The complicating factor is that they are often different. The three forces local to me each issue certs that look very different to one another.

 

So, say you had two mates out shooting each from neighboring force areas. They get stopped and each produce their certificate. The two certs look different, and in some cases are even of a different construction. This is going to look highly dodgy, is it not? I mean this never happens with any other official document. My driving licence looks the same as one issued to someone at the other end of the country, as does my passport. However, a SGC or FAC issued to me looks different to one issued to my mate only about 5 miles away and the next force past my mates issues ones which look different again! This ridiculous, quite frankly.

 

J.

Jonathan,

 

Does it really matter if the certificates are different? In a word NO

Thankfully all our counties have the own identity and long may it continue…

I would like to see all the forces have a standard which they grant licences for, however sgc/fac is just one very tiny part of the paper work issued from our individual police forces.

 

 

To quote your self “This ridiculous, quite frankly” Sums up the 2000 + posts you continue to make on here…

What next J?

Will you want us all wearing the same brown clothing and carrying a copy of the little red book!!

 

TEH

Edited August 4, 2013 by The Essex Hunter

[Gordon R]

Jonathan is a little star. Whatever the post, he manages to find a way to run down a poster, the Police or the law. Quite a talent.

:innocent:

Edited August 4, 2013 by Gordon R

[JonathanL]

Jonathan,

 

Does it really matter if the certificates are different? In a word NO

Thankfully all our counties have the own identity and long may it continue

I would like to see all the forces have a standard which they grant licences for, however sgc/fac is just one very tiny part of the paper work issued from our individual police forces.

 

 

To quote your self This ridiculous, quite frankly Sums up the 2000 + posts you continue to make on here

What next J?

Will you want us all wearing the same brown clothing and carrying a copy of the little red book!!

 

TEH

And the prize for totally and utterly missing the point at hand goes to.....

 

J.

Jonathan is a little star. Whatever the post, he manages to find a way to run down a poster, the Police or the law. Quite a talent.

:innocent:

Still obsessed with having a go at me then Gordon?

 

J.

[TopDown]

I can't quite believe this is still going on and on and on. It's a very simple issue. If you get stopped use some common sense. Deal with the issue you have been stopped for. Most cops don't care about whether you are out shooting or not and won't enquire about it. If they check you they will find out you have certificates. If for whatever reason you are detained for a search it might be prudent to let them know if there are guns etc in the car. If not - why worry about it.

 

The certificate issue has been done to death so many times I can't even think what else there could be to say about it. If you don't carry it there is a theoretical risk that might have your firearms seized. However this is extremely unlikely due to having better things to do than arbitrarily seize lawfully held firearms, being able to check PNC/NFLMS (at any time), being able to verify your identity in a variety of ways and a few more things I am sure.

[The Essex Hunter]

And the prize for totally and utterly missing the point at hand goes to.....

 

J.

 

Still obsessed with having a go at me then Gordon?

 

J.

Ha ha J....You are king of swerving any points made and master of answering direct questions....when LEE243 slam dunked you the other day with this reply...

"It is desirable that new applicants

should have some previous experience

of the safe use of firearms before using

such rifles." 13.24 of chapter 13This common for all new applicants"

 

I was waiting for one of your reverse posts....however I believe you knew better for once....

 

TEH

[malantone]

And the prize for totally and utterly missing the point at hand goes to.....

 

J.

 

Still obsessed with having a go at me then Gordon?

 

J.

 

 

Ha ha J....You are king of swerving any points made and master of answering direct questions....when LEE243 slam dunked you the other day with this reply...

"It is desirable that new applicants

should have some previous experience

of the safe use of firearms before using

such rifles." 13.24 of chapter 13This common for all new applicants"

 

I was waiting for one of your reverse posts....however I believe you knew better for once....

 

TEH

you three must be short of something to argue about, get a life all three of you

[searley]

Just had my brother in law around who is a police seargent

 

He claims to have shot H&K police rifles, but it became apparent as i handed him different guns from my collection, and he looked through the scope out the back window, that he did no check the guns were empty first, not did he know how to check

 

 

When i passed him the Colt M4 he asked if it was full auto or semi auto

[Mike737]

Should you not have proved the guns were empty / unloaded before you handed them to him???

 

Basic safety...

 

Mike.

[keg]

Although I have never been stopped with my firearms in the car, I would endeavour to be as helpful as possible. Why be obstructive ?

[12boreblue]

I had a thousand cartridges I bought over the weekend and left them in the van, on Monday on the way home from work I got stopped, amazingly the two boys in blue went through the normal checks, then asked to look in the van, the 4 boxes were sitting there in full view, they didn't give them a second look!, I was trying so hard to stop myself from grinning like a cheshire cat as they got in the car and drove away.

[aris]

I had a thousand cartridges I bought over the weekend and left them in the van, on Monday on the way home from work I got stopped, amazingly the two boys in blue went through the normal checks, then asked to look in the van, the 4 boxes were sitting there in full view, they didn't give them a second look!, I was trying so hard to stop myself from grinning like a cheshire cat as they got in the car and drove away.

They just saw 4 boxes.

[CharlieT]

I had a thousand cartridges I bought over the weekend and left them in the van, on Monday on the way home from work I got stopped, amazingly the two boys in blue went through the normal checks, then asked to look in the van, the 4 boxes were sitting there in full view, they didn't give them a second look!, I was trying so hard to stop myself from grinning like a cheshire cat as they got in the car and drove away.

Why would they, you don't need a certificate to possess them.

[JonathanL]

I had a thousand cartridges I bought over the weekend and left them in the van, on Monday on the way home from work I got stopped, amazingly the two boys in blue went through the normal checks, then asked to look in the van, the 4 boxes were sitting there in full view, they didn't give them a second look!, I was trying so hard to stop myself from grinning like a cheshire cat as they got in the car and drove away.

 

Sorry, don't understand the poing of that post.

 

J.