Evolve82 Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 I have been out a few times this week on the deeks and have been using my 12g Benelli Montefeltro SA. I used a 3/4 choke today and I really had trouble putting woodies down in 1 shot using Chasse pigeon special 29g 6s. I hit one and it did not die until i put another 2 shots into it at one point in my afternoon. The majority went down in 1 shot then took a follow up shot to finish it off when on the ground. The longest bird was only at about 35 to 40 yards. Anyone offer any advice please? Is it me? Is it the gun? or possibly the cartridge is too light a load? First time I experienced this I was using a 1/2 choke so thought that was the problem (forgot to take my other chokes with me to change it from clays at the weekend). To experience the same thing using 3/4 choke though, something is not quite right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I have been out a few times this week on the deeks and have been using my 12g Benelli Montefeltro SA. I used a 3/4 choke today and I really had trouble putting woodies down in 1 shot using Chasse pigeon special 29g 6s. I hit one and it did not die until i put another 2 shots into it at one point in my afternoon. The majority went down in 1 shot then took a follow up shot to finish it off when on the ground. The longest bird was only at about 35 to 40 yards. Anyone offer any advice please? Is it me? Is it the gun? or possibly the cartridge is too light a load? First time I experienced this I was using a 1/2 choke so thought that was the problem (forgot to take my other chokes with me to change it from clays at the weekend). To experience the same thing using 3/4 choke though, something is not quite right. To this question, i would say yes. You do your bit and the birds will come down clean. I mostly use an ounce of 7 or 7.5 and don't have that problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Choke and cartridge is fine you just need to put it in the right place Why do you shoot them again rather than neck them seems a waste of cartridges to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolve82 Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Choke and cartridge is fine you just need to put it in the right place Why do you shoot them again rather than neck them seems a waste of cartridges to me So I am just not middling the pattern? I do not know how to neck a bird! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolve82 Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 To this question, i would say yes. You do your bit and the birds will come down clean. I mostly use an ounce of 7 or 7.5 and don't have that problem. Can you offer any constructive help to this? I thought it was me but anything specific I could check I am going or not doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I found them to be absolutely demon in my Silver pigeon 30" o/u which is choked 1/4/and 1/2. I've pulled off some of my highest shots with them so have absolute confidence in the cartridge. However, I couldn't hit a barn door with them in my 28" Beretta Urika S/A. So evidently it wasn't the cartridge The drop, cast was near enough the same and I tried different chokes in the Urika but nothing made any difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pstenson123 Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) Grip the birds head between your index & ****y finger & make a light fist & spin your hand in circles it will do the job perfect & save shells. I only use 7.5 - 28gms for pigeon , 1/4 & 1/2 choke , the only time I have to neck em is when I don't hit em right, & shoot birds out to 60 yards maxATB Paul. Edited August 21, 2013 by pstenson123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolve82 Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 I found them to be absolutely demon in my Silver pigeon 30" o/u which is choked 1/4/and 1/2. I've pulled off some of my highest shots with them so have absolute confidence in the cartridge. However, I couldn't hit a barn door with them in my 28" Beretta Urika S/A. So evidently it wasn't the cartridge The drop, cast was near enough the same and I tried different chokes in the Urika but nothing made any difference. Next time will take out my o/u with the same cartridges and see how things go! Thanks for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted August 21, 2013 Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Can you offer any constructive help to this? I thought it was me but anything specific I could check I am going or not doing? If your results are inconsistent then , it could be gun fit and or gun mount , a lesson or two with a competent coach will soon identify any problems with either , it would also be a good idea to test the gun on a pattern plate to make sure the gun shoots where your looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) If your results are inconsistent then , it could be gun fit and or gun mount , a lesson or two with a competent coach will soon identify any problems with either , it would also be a good idea to test the gun on a pattern plate to make sure the gun shoots where your looking. Good advice I'm fairly convinced my s/a threw a much wider pattern for the same fixed choke in my o/u. Edited August 22, 2013 by turbo33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Good advice I'm fairly convinced my s/a threw a much wider pattern for the same fixed choke in my o/u. different brands of barrel / dimentions /choke do different things, dependent on a multitude of variations. i have a full choke that throws extrafull patterns but is marked full but has overbored barrel to a 45thou restriction. meaning..... i have to pattern it and see what its all doing. some fixed choke guns throw awsome patterns with most shells. i think the problems start when speed becomes obsessive. drive things too fast, something negative is going to come from that. its like this, older game guns were never ever intended to shoot more than 1200fps. but the majority of game shells now clock 1400fps minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 I posted a similar thread about the same cartridges a couple of weeks ago, I've now changed carts and today I only had one bird that wasn't cleanly killed. For whatever reason they don't seem to pattern well in my Browning 525 with Mod and L/Mod chokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigman Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Iv got a few boxes of these still from when I had my 101 o/u they where the worst patterning thing Iv ever Tryed , massive gaps in the pattern at 20y and that was with a 3/4 fixed choke , I'll give um a bash thou my sp at weekend see if it's any better I mentioned it to a mate that works in a rfd his reply was well that's express for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpentermark Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 As others have already said " if you put it in the right place, at the right range they'll fall out the sky dead"! Might be totally off the mark here but sounds to me your missing them behind, either not giving enough lead or not following through. If i were you i'd spend some time on the clays and figure it out rather than keep injuring the live stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Mongrel- Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Not convinced I'm afraid. Why would just a change of carts suddenly have such an effect? I've looked at the tec data and the new ones are similarly fast. I know a lot of people like them but, is a dodgy run out of the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remmyman Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Grip the birds head between your index & ****y finger & make a light fist & spin your hand in circles it will do the job perfect & save shells. I only use 7.5 - 28gms for pigeon , 1/4 & 1/2 choke , the only time I have to neck em is when I don't hit em right, & shoot birds out to 60 yards maxATB Paul. Can't believe people still feel that this is the correct way to despatch wounded quarry. Yes, it is reasonably effective at 'getting the job done' but looks 'amateurish' and too often a 'headless' bird is the result. Maybe i'm just 'old school' but the sight of guns/pickers up etc 'spinning' pheasants always looks disrespectful and clumsy. I was lucky I suppose to be shown by an 'expert' whilst working on a poultry farm. Some days it was usual to despatch upwards of 20 chickens. Half the trouble nowadays is that the term 'ring it's neck ' is taken literally! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Not convinced I'm afraid. Why would just a change of carts suddenly have such an effect? I've looked at the tec data and the new ones are similarly fast. I know a lot of people like them but, is a dodgy run out of the question? soft lead doesnt like speed, can blow the patterns, slow loads usually pattern brilliant. i`ve done some pattern / loading work, and slow certainly gets the best out of any cartridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 Can't believe people still feel that this is the correct way to despatch wounded quarry. Yes, it is reasonably effective at 'getting the job done' but looks 'amateurish' and too often a 'headless' bird is the result. Maybe i'm just 'old school' but the sight of guns/pickers up etc 'spinning' pheasants always looks disrespectful and clumsy. I was lucky I suppose to be shown by an 'expert' whilst working on a poultry farm. Some days it was usual to despatch upwards of 20 chickens. Half the trouble nowadays is that the term 'ring it's neck ' is taken literally! Go on then. Tell us how we are really meant to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 I have been out a few times this week on the deeks and have been using my 12g Benelli Montefeltro SA. I used a 3/4 choke today and I really had trouble putting woodies down in 1 shot using Chasse pigeon special 29g 6s. I hit one and it did not die until i put another 2 shots into it at one point in my afternoon. The majority went down in 1 shot then took a follow up shot to finish it off when on the ground. The longest bird was only at about 35 to 40 yards. Anyone offer any advice please? Is it me? Is it the gun? or possibly the cartridge is too light a load? First time I experienced this as using a 1/2 choke so thought that was the problem (forgot to take my other chokes with me to change it from clays at the weekend). To experience the same thing using 3/4 choke though, something is not quite right. These cartridges are an EU shot size 6, therefore a UK shot size 5. Iv killed some great pigeons and pheasants with them, they are more than good enough. I'd say put your full choke in and pattern the gun to see where the shot is going. Adjust the stock if need be. If the shot placement is fine, then its your shooting that's the problem.... Can't believe people still feel that this is the correct way to despatch wounded quarry. Yes, it is reasonably effective at 'getting the job done' but looks 'amateurish' and too often a 'headless' bird is the result. Maybe i'm just 'old school' but the sight of guns/pickers up etc 'spinning' pheasants always looks disrespectful and clumsy. I was lucky I suppose to be shown by an 'expert' whilst working on a poultry farm. Some days it was usual to despatch upwards of 20 chickens. Half the trouble nowadays is that the term 'ring it's neck ' is taken literally! Its the quickest method. Pick the bird up, a few twists and its dead.... I haven't pulled a head off in years..... How do you do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 These cartridges are an EU shot size 6, therefore a UK shot size 5. Iv killed some great pigeons and pheasants with them, they are more than good enough. I'd say put your full choke in and pattern the gun to see where the shot is going. Adjust the stock if need be. If the shot placement is fine, then its your shooting that's the problem.... Its the quickest method. Pick the bird up, a few twists and its dead.... I haven't pulled a head off in years..... How do you do it? Totally agree. I would have thought the shells would only be a half shotsize bigger,though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 (edited) Totally agree. I would have thought the shells would only be a half shotsize bigger,though. Iv looked on various websites, some say half sizes, some say 1 size..... The chart infront of me says eu 6 is a UK 5. Without actually measuring the shot, I will just use my chart as a guide. Would be better if the shot size in mm was printed on the cartridge, that way we would know exactly what we were shooting..... Edited August 23, 2013 by chrispti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 This tells all regarding shot sizes: http://www.jonathan-spencer.co.uk/Reference/Guns/Shotgun/Ammo/Shotsize.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remmyman Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 These cartridges are an EU shot size 6, therefore a UK shot size 5. Iv killed some great pigeons and pheasants with them, they are more than good enough. I'd say put your full choke in and pattern the gun to see where the shot is going. Adjust the stock if need be. If the shot placement is fine, then its your shooting that's the problem.... Its the quickest method. Pick the bird up, a few twists and its dead.... I haven't pulled a head off in years..... How do you do it? You've obviously got it down to a fine art and if it works for you all well and good. In answer to your question, if you're right handed, take the birds legs in your left hand (bird face down so to speak) take the head in your right hand and then 'pinch' the head between forefinger and index finger, gently pull neck straight and at the same time bend your wrist downwards (towards palm) you will feel the neck break quite distinctly, it's identical to how you should 'neck' a rabbit. Like all new skills it may take a little practice so may I suggest that anyone trying this for the first time uses dead birds untill theh have it perfected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 You've obviously got it down to a fine art and if it works for you all well and good. In answer to your question, if you're right handed, take the birds legs in your left hand (bird face down so to speak) take the head in your right hand and then 'pinch' the head between forefinger and index finger, gently pull neck straight and at the same time bend your wrist downwards (towards palm) you will feel the neck break quite distinctly, it's identical to how you should 'neck' a rabbit. Like all new skills it may take a little practice so may I suggest that anyone trying this for the first time uses dead birds untill theh have it perfected. If I go out to a pricked bird I usually keep my gun with me, as Iv had birds fly off on a few occasions. Picking the bird up one handed and dispatching it in a split second works better for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remmyman Posted August 23, 2013 Report Share Posted August 23, 2013 If I go out to a pricked bird I usually keep my gun with me, as Iv had birds fly off on a few occasions. Picking the bird up one handed and dispatching it in a split second works better for me. So do I, we've all gone out to have a pick/tidy up only to watch helpless as a 'dead' pigeon flies off. (in my experience they've often been hit in the head and often 'tower' before moving off) Personally I don't struggle to despatch birds in this manner whilst carrying a gun, but like I said in my earlier post if it works for you fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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