CZ 452

[Ben W.]

Good news, my CZ 452 American in left hand arrived today. We had a couple hundred Eley subsonic hp xtra (not my spelling I might add) in the farm safe so though I would zero her in. I've heard good things about Eley subsonics but do you think I could get a half decent group!

 

Previous to the .22lr I used .177 pcp and spring air rifles and could achieve 1" groups at sub 40 yards sitting, using shooting sticks all day long.

 

At 30 yards with the .22lr out of 10 shots I am getting one or two bang on and then the rest are all over the shop with a spread of about 3-4". I even resorted to using a bale to rest the rifle on (I prefer to zero using the method I employ while hunting hence why I normally use sticks) but the bale achieved the same results.

 

So my question is does the new girl need more breaking in? Bearing in mind I fired 85 rounds through her this evening.

 

Or

 

Is she a fussy one and just really dislikes eley subs do you think? In which case can someone recommend a couple more decent subsonic bullets to try?

 

Cheers guys.

[Shropshire_Lad]

Hi Ben, mine liked Winchester subs better. Some things not right here, is the barrel touching the for end wood? no problems with the moderator ? Have you tried shooting it without a mod on ? Scope ok ? just a few things to try.

 

atvb Paul.

[Ben W.]

Barrel is floating fine, stock screws all tight. Brand new SAK mod on and no issues with the threads but might remove it tomorrow and try it to see if that pulls the groups in. Brand new scope too, all mounts are snug. I've mounted an LED lamp on it and was zeroing it with it attached in case it altered the POI had I zeroed without it and then added it after.

 

I've had fussy air rifles before and had similar results with the groups but didn't know if it was as exaggerated with a rimfire plus I know eley subs are a quality ammo.

[team tractor]

My .22lr went from 1" group at 60 yards with cci to 4" with Winchester subs . I was gob smacked . Now using cci mini mag as its a semi auto and wasn't cycling

[Ben W.]

One thing I have noticed is that when chambering a bullet the bolt is incredibly hard to lock down, just cycling the bolt without a magazine present is easy though. I have to really push it forward hard in order to get it to lock down, it hard enough to make my palm and thumb sore after 85 rounds.

[bicykillgaz]

I'm quite fortunate my 452 really likes eley but shoots acceptably with Winchester super-x, cci subs and cci target ammo all are thumbnail sized groups or smaller at 50yrds.

 

Have you checked scope mounts, mods not clipping, wood to metal is tight fitting so no stock movement.

[Luckyshot]

One thing I have noticed is that when chambering a bullet the bolt is incredibly hard to lock down, just cycling the bolt without a magazine present is easy though. I have to really push it forward hard in order to get it to lock down, it hard enough to make my palm and thumb sore after 85 rounds.

 

Something is not right there I would try some different brands first before I wasted any more bullets.

[telf]

the anschutz i have for day shooting hated eleys,all over the place, but ok with other makes, as has been said try different brands

[Ben W.]

Cheers everyone, I'll pop to the shop and grab a couple of other brands later and see what results I get. After doing a bit of research it seems the bolt can be very difficult to cycle when new so I'll leave it for the time being and see if that improves with more use.

 

Will post up with results.

[Dekers]

The American 452 does not have a standard free floating barrel, it may be in some specific guns, and close in others but it needs work on the majority to make them float, and to the best of my knowledge CZ have never quoted the 452 American as free floating, although I believe they do for the 455 American.

 

Just the same, on a .22lr with subs, the chances of barrel contact causing 3-4 inch groups at 30 yards is remote to say the least.

 

I'm guessing the gun is brand new, have you cleaned it at all, try that, also check everything is tight, not just mods, scopes, mounts etc., check all the gun screws are tight, and check groups without a mod as well, check the crown..

 

Try different ammo.

[Fisheruk]

I'm quite fortunate my 452 really likes eley but shoots acceptably with Winchester super-x, cci subs and cci target ammo all are thumbnail sized groups or smaller at 50yrds.

 

Have you checked scope mounts, mods not clipping, wood to metal is tight fitting so no stock movement.

Mine takes anything, no difference in groups @ 40grn. I think you should take it back.

[bicykillgaz]

Mine takes anything, no difference in groups @ 40grn. I think you should take it back.

Why would you take it back? mine shoots acceptably with most brands but very well with eley or are you referring to the OP?

[jcbbracken]

try a trigger kit cz452 have stiff triggers and i use winchester good hard hitting ammo.

[Ben W.]

@Dekers

 

Checked the stock screws last night, crown appears to be clean. Will try without a mod tonight. I say free floating because I can slide a piece of paper under the barrel without obstruction.

 

I'll pick up some different ammo anyway and get him to have a look at the action as I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be that difficult to chamber a round and lock the bolt down

[JONAH898]

I use cci mini mags in mine at 60 yards and can cut string with the bullet at that distance but if use normal cci drops a load and no where near as accurate

[turbo33]

@Dekers

 

Checked the stock screws last night, crown appears to be clean. Will try without a mod tonight. I say free floating because I can slide a piece of paper under the barrel without obstruction.

 

I'll pick up some different ammo anyway and get him to have a look at the action as I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be that difficult to chamber a round and lock the bolt down

 

I think this is a clue to the problem. Silly question, but does the serial number on the bolt match the one on the action? The 452 barrels seem to be consistently better machined than the others in the CZ range. Try and run a magazine of rounds through it without firing them and then examine them for damage, either to the bullet head or case. I had a 455, that I was pretty sure was damaging the rounds before they were fired which was giving the same problems you are experiencing. A couple on zero and the rest way off.

I would be interested to know, get back to us with your results.

I know a lot of people say don't clean a 22lr barrel. I bought mine new and cleaned it out before using it. It took 40 odd patches and cleaning solvent to get all the crud out of it, an un believable amount of stuff down there. :o It took ten shots, with a new scope, to get it on zero, and its an absolute one holer at 50yds with Winchester subs. I will leave it alone until/if the poi goes off.

Edited September 4, 2013 by turbo33

[lee-kinsman]

My 452 .22lr shoots great with CCI, Winchester Subs and remington all 1/2inch groups at 50yds. If your struggling with the bolt in the way that you have described take it back to the dealer.

[dadioles]

A new gun needs really thorough cleaning before you put any bullets through it. Most shooters on this forum do not understand what "clean" means and consider a couple of pull throughs with a bore snake to be good enough, it isn't.

 

In my CZ I find it hard to chamber Ely Subs, really stiff. Every gun - even same type, same make etc. is different and will behave differently with different brands of ammunition so you must COMPLETELY IGNORE ANY AMMO RECOMENDATIONS.

 

It is something you have to find out for yourself. Basic stuff!! buy a box each of several different makes of ammunition and see what your gun likes, then buy that batch in bulk and stick to it. I use SK (Lapua) subs, but that may not suit your gun.

 

At 50 yards you should be getting good groups with a group of 5 shots within the area of a 10p coin when shooting off a bipod, or hopefully rather better.

 

The action of the bolt will get smoother with use but if your bullets are tight to chamber use different bullets.

[Ben W.]

Okay an update...

 

Took it back to the dealer who checked the bore and noticed a load of crud. So he tried to clean it and couldn't even get the rod through let alone the cleaning head as well.

 

So he modified a hmr pull through and gave it clean. I mentioned the fact I'm struggling to chamber sort subs so he filled the magazine and sure enough he saw it was an effort and noticed the heads were getting damaged. So we tried Winchesters...easier to chamber but still damaged, Remington (not subs)...easier and no damage.

 

Decided to buy a box of rws, cci, sk and he gave me the Winchester for free.

 

Just fired 10 of each from 20 yards with the mod on and still getting shotgun groups from all manaufacturers.

 

Will try without the mod and post when done but personally I think the bore is far too tight. The serial on the bolt and barrel are the same.

[Ben W.]

Moderator is clipping, groups are practically one holing with all manufacturers at 20 yards so will increase the distance to find the best bullet for the rifle.

 

Is this a moderator fault do you think or the screw cut? I've never had this problem before.

[turbo33]

Sounds like a few issues there Ben. :o Firstly, I would say if its damaging the bullet heads, then its unacceptable. You shouldn't be expected to use only one make of ammo because the rifle damages other makes on loading . You say the mod is clipping but you're one holing at 20yds Is that with the mod off?

For me the base line is, it needs sorting at the breech end so it DOESN'T damage the rounds on any ammo first. Then see what you have. If you have a damaged bullet passing through the mod you're not going to know anything about the mod.

 

One thing that you can check is if the bullet heads are being damaged by the bolt sliding back over it when you chamber the next round. I believe there have been issues with rough/sharp edges on the underside of the bolt and it makes sense that the round would be harder to chamber/push bolt forward. Or are they being damaged as they enter the chamber? Either way I would sort that area first.

 

If firearms weren't such a pain to change with having to put a variation in to do so, you could exchange it as there's clearly a fault there. However, having had a nightmare with my 455 along exactly the same lines, I would get it exchanged and put up with the wait.

 

Hope you get it sorted.

Edited September 4, 2013 by turbo33

[Ben W.]

Thanks Turbo, with the mod on at 20 yards I was getting 3-4 inch groups using all manufacturers. With the mod off I am one holing with all manufacturers which led me to believe the mod is the main issue. So far as the damaged heads are concerned the best grouping bullets are the ones with the most damage so presumably the tighter fits!?

[bicykillgaz]

Thanks Turbo, with the mod on at 20 yards I was getting 3-4 inch groups using all manufacturers. With the mod off I am one holing with all manufacturers which led me to believe the mod is the main issue. So far as the damaged heads are concerned the best grouping bullets are the ones with the most damage so presumably the tighter fits!?

How damaged are we talking? Where do you live maybe another member could come to have a look, sometimes you miss the most obvious things for looking too hard. Is the magazine assembled correctly, I know if I put the spring wrong way in my hornet it can kick them out at a funny angle and they don't chamber correctly. Also is the mag clicking in place correctly? Has anyone else tried firing it?

[turbo33]

Thanks Turbo, with the mod on at 20 yards I was getting 3-4 inch groups using all manufacturers. With the mod off I am one holing with all manufacturers which led me to believe the mod is the main issue. So far as the damaged heads are concerned the best grouping bullets are the ones with the most damage so presumably the tighter fits!?

 

Well now I'm truly confused Ben First bit sounds good, mod on bad, mod off good, so there's a positive identification But the more damage on the bullets, the better the group I think this could be a new Demon Tweek

[bruno22rf]

You say your dealer noticed that the bullet heads were being damaged but tried to work around it by trying various types of ammo?? This is a $&*%% Rimfire and you don't want anything nasty so much as scuffing the rounds-demand a replacement. I have a 452 and it will cycle any round with ease (CCI stinger not included)..