Is killing really sport?

[Katzenjammer]

I kill to do a job which I have been contracted to do - pest control on our permission. I don't enjoy the killing but rather the thought that I am achieving what my farmer expects in regards to pest control on his land to reduce the depredation of crops and risks to livestock. I do enjoy the exercise and scenery. For those pests that can be eaten then clearly there is some pleasure in ensuring that their meat does not go to waste.

[dadioles]

I do love these forums..... a bit of mischief now and again is so satisfying.

 

The very quick response by one member who appears to suffer a degree of blood lust and actually enjoys the process of killing is a little worrying. Indeed, if I was his feo (assuming he is for real) I would be tempted to call him for interview (camokid, you have a naughty sense of humour - or need help?).

 

That apart, one or two replies slightly missed my point, or misread what I was trying to say, but the majority of the posts were really heart warming and what I wanted to hear. People with compassion, the ability to care and to think about what they are doing. Thank you.

 

The moment that the desire to kill becomes the reason for killing, and the killing is what gives the satisfaction, with no respect for the quarry that is the point that it gets scary, and there are people like that.

 

The rest of us enjoy our shooting, it is why we do it. The end result is a dead animal but it died either because there are too many, or they are in the wrong place, or they are very tasty. Not because we get a thrill out of seeing their brains or guts spread about.

 

Kent made the point about a trophy being kept as a mark of respect for the animal. I do buy in to that, his was an excellent post. In some cases, however, the trophy seems to be there to boast about, an enhancement of misplaced masculinity - my car bonnet is bigger than your car bonnet. We all have ego's that need to be massaged from time to time.

 

As another post said, the photograph taken by a proud dad of his son or daughter holding up their first kill is in his (and my view as well) quite wonderful and one for the family album. If posted in a public forum it helps to add a carefully worded caption.

 

Take a look at the Animal Aid web site if you have a moment. Try and see things from their point of view and remember that we don't need to reinforce their misguided and often ill-informed view of what we do because they, plus a hell of a lot of other people in this country (the majority?) could not give two figs if shooting was controlled almost out of existence.

 

To be informed about what the antis are doing helps us to counter their more unreasonable activities.

Edited September 19, 2013 by dadioles

[-Mongrel-]

Do I enjoy the killing part of it? Not particularly.

 

I do enjoy the chase, the stalk, or the setting of decoys, the anticipation as your quarry appears and I get immense satisfaction from a clean shot, even more from a left and right...as well as disappointment and a slight sadness when it's not so clean. I justify my killing by ensuring that everything I shoot which can be, is eaten. Either by our family or friends etc who will happily take rabbit and pigeon.

 

I have no qualms about shooting corvids onn farmland, I've seen what they are capable of, and rats once again don't require a second thought. I am less comfortable with big game hunting, but wouldn't condemn anyone for it. We all make our choices.

[karpman]

I do love these forums..... a bit of mischief now and again is so satisfying.

 

The very quick response by one member who appears to suffer a degree of blood lust and actually enjoys the process of killing is a little worrying. Indeed, if I was his feo (assuming he is for real) I would be tempted to call him for interview (camokid, you have a naughty sense of humour - or need help?).

 

That apart, one or two replies slightly missed my point, or misread what I was trying to say, but the majority of the posts were really heart warming and what I wanted to hear. People with compassion, the ability to care and to think about what they are doing. Thank you.

 

The moment that the desire to kill becomes the reason for killing, and the killing is what gives the satisfaction, with no respect for the quarry that is the point that it gets scary, and there are people like that.

 

The rest of us enjoy our shooting, it is why we do it. The end result is a dead animal but it died either because there are too many, or they are in the wrong place, or they are very tasty. Not because we get a thrill out of seeing their brains or guts spread about.

 

Kent made the point about a trophy being kept as a mark of respect for the animal. I do buy in to that, his was an excellent post. In some cases, however, the trophy seems to be there to boast about, an enhancement of misplaced masculinity - my car bonnet is bigger than your car bonnet. We all have ego's that need to be massaged from time to time.

 

As another post said, the photograph taken by a proud dad of his son or daughter holding up their first kill is in his (and my view as well) quite wonderful and one for the family album. If posted in a public forum it helps to add a carefully worded caption.

 

Take a look at the Animal Aid web site if you have a moment. Try and see things from their point of view and remember that we don't need to reinforce their misguided and often ill-informed view of what we do because they, plus a hell of a lot of other people in this country (the majority?) could not give two figs if shooting was controlled almost out of existence.

 

To be informed about what the antis are doing helps us to counter their more unreasonable activities.

If I did not enjoy it I wouldn't do it. You make me out to be some sort of monster. Feel free to ring my Feo and voice your concerns. If I felt terrible every time I pulled the trigger I would stop and sell my guns. Target shooting and clay shooting holds little interest for me.

 

As stated killing animals is the bi product of hunting animals. I enjoy every part of hunting, do I feel disappointed when it has been a dry trip yes.

 

The process of killing is part of the process of hunting.

 

We're did anyone suggest they enjoyed seeing it brains being splattered anywhere.

 

You sir strike me as a provocative troll who should crawl back under whatever rock you came out from.

 

Karpman

[neutron619]

You sir strike me as a provocative troll who should crawl back under whatever rock you came out from.

 

 

On the contrary: to me he seems to be a thoughtful person capable of opposing the inherent moral contradictions of our sport, reconciling them and finding a way in which respecting and honouring his quarry is happily balanced with his enjoyment of the hunt.

 

Your stance seems rather less nuanced.

[Gunnerbob]

I do love these forums..... a bit of mischief now and again is so satisfying.

 

The very quick response by one member who appears to suffer a degree of blood lust and actually enjoys the process of killing is a little worrying. Indeed, if I was his feo (assuming he is for real) I would be tempted to call him for interview (camokid, you have a naughty sense of humour - or need help?).

 

That apart, one or two replies slightly missed my point, or misread what I was trying to say, but the majority of the posts were really heart warming and what I wanted to hear. People with compassion, the ability to care and to think about what they are doing. Thank you.

 

The moment that the desire to kill becomes the reason for killing, and the killing is what gives the satisfaction, with no respect for the quarry that is the point that it gets scary, and there are people like that.

 

The rest of us enjoy our shooting, it is why we do it. The end result is a dead animal but it died either because there are too many, or they are in the wrong place, or they are very tasty. Not because we get a thrill out of seeing their brains or guts spread about.

 

Kent made the point about a trophy being kept as a mark of respect for the animal. I do buy in to that, his was an excellent post. In some cases, however, the trophy seems to be there to boast about, an enhancement of misplaced masculinity - my car bonnet is bigger than your car bonnet. We all have ego's that need to be massaged from time to time.

 

As another post said, the photograph taken by a proud dad of his son or daughter holding up their first kill is in his (and my view as well) quite wonderful and one for the family album. If posted in a public forum it helps to add a carefully worded caption.

 

Take a look at the Animal Aid web site if you have a moment. Try and see things from their point of view and remember that we don't need to reinforce their misguided and often ill-informed view of what we do because they, plus a hell of a lot of other people in this country (the majority?) could not give two figs if shooting was controlled almost out of existence.

 

To be informed about what the antis are doing helps us to counter their more unreasonable activities.

And that just about sums up this thread........

[karpman]

 

On the contrary: to me he seems to be a thoughtful person capable of opposing the inherent moral contradictions of our sport, reconciling them and finding a way in which respecting and honouring his quarry is happily balanced with his enjoyment of the hunt.

 

Your stance seems rather less nuanced.

Ok, I am going out with the airgun to kill rats tonight. I will be head shooting them as and when possible. They hold no food value to me and it's costing me money and time away from my family.

 

Why am I doing this? I certainly am not getting paid... I am and shall be doing it because I enjoy it. If I didn't I wouldn't.

 

Karpman

[neutron619]

Ok, I am going out with the airgun to kill rats tonight. I will be head shooting them as and when possible. They hold no food value to me and it's costing me money and time away from my family.

 

Why am I doing this? I certainly am not getting paid... I am and shall be doing it because I enjoy it. If I didn't I wouldn't.

 

Karpman

 

Then one would also hope that you are doing it because it is necessary - that is the line between pleasure in shooting and pleasure in killing where the purpose is not for food.

Edited September 19, 2013 by neutron619

[Luckyshot]

 

Then one would also hope that you are doing it because it is necessary - that is the line between pleasure in shooting and pleasure in killing where the purpose is not for food.

 

Got to be the ****test post in the thread. I enjoy the killing of all the animals I shoot or else I wouldn't do it. Is it necessary ? well my farmer seems to think so. Is it necessary to me ? no why would it be but I still enjoy doing it.

[karpman]

 

Then one would also hope that you are doing it because it is necessary - that is the line between pleasure in shooting and pleasure in killing where the purpose is not for food.

Oh I'm fairly sure it is, in fact I'm certain. How ever you justify to your self the end results are same. And rest assured I will enjoy my shooting in full.

 

 

 

If the pleasure just arose from shooting I would surely shoot paper and clays as opposed to live challenging targets.

 

You seem to think I am of the opinion that if it moves I must shoot it, I can assure you this is not the case. I have a fairly vast knowledge of birds and wildlife in general. And have been lucky enough to see some of the rarest birds this country has to offer.

 

I will justify my self and my actions no further, twist my words however you wish.

 

Karpman

[dadioles]

Hello Karpman

 

I did not have any great concerns about your first post and appreciated the point you made. Your response seems a bit overheated but I am not easily offended. Only the post from camokid seemed rather loopy, if I was referring to you directly I would have done you the courtesy of mentioning you by name.

 

I do understand your point and as I hope was clear from my post I too hunt and shoot, a lot!. I am a bit old to claim any rush of adrenaline but I do remember when it used to be exciting rather than satisfying.

 

The point we differ about, and it may simply be our different interpretation of the English language, is that you stated that you enjoy the actual kill and I do not. That difference is quite subtle and it may just be a play on words.

 

To my way of thinking, you have to hate something to enjoy killing it. Not just to kill it, but to enjoy killing it. Maybe it is something that comes with increased age but I don't think there is much in this world that I hate enough to enjoy killing it (house flies!).

 

Shooting is a great activity.

 

.... I just read your post... Have a great evening rat shooting. It really is good fun and quite challenging at times. Actually I rather hate rats...... and house flies.

Edited September 19, 2013 by dadioles

[neutron619]

The point we differ about, and it may simply be our different interpretation of the English language, is that you stated that you enjoy the actual kill and I do not. That difference is quite subtle and it may just be a play on words.

 

To my way of thinking, you have to hate something to enjoy killing it. Not just to kill it, but to enjoy killing it. Maybe it is something that comes with increased age but I don't think there is much in this world that I hate enough to enjoy killing it (house flies!).

 

This is the "nuance" to which I was referring.

[Scully]

I'm probably on my own here,but I can't agree that hunting is sport.I'm not looking for an argument I just don't see it.Regardless of dictionary definitions hunting developed from the need to provide food for survival,not for recreational purposes, which sport is.Most indigenous tribes of all nations soon favoured modern firearms rather than their bows and arrows once given the opportunity.

I don't believe in the sporting shot either.Firearms and in particular the 'shot' cartridge,was developed to give man the hunter a distinct advantage over his quarry,not to give it a 'sporting' chance.I can understand what is meant by a 'sporting' chance of course,and even by the 'sporting' shot,but both of these by their very definition describe a 'chance' that the shooter will miss,and if there's a chance of this,then surely the chance of wounding also,and this is not desirable.Leaving a bird or whatever to gain a respectable distance prior to shooting is based on commonsense of the understanding that at close range it would be rendered inedible and therefore a waste of good meat.The same criteria doesn't apply to vermin.

Foxes are hunted by Hounds for sport of course;for recreational purposes,and to claim it is still done for the purposes of pest control is ludicrous in my opinion.It once was,obviously,but given the modern methods we now have for this purpose, traditional hunting with hounds as pest control has to be one of the most costly and impractical practises going,and existed primarily because there was no other method. s

The whole point of modern firearms and the technology behind the ammunition we employ is to place every conceivable advantage squarely in the hands of the shooter.None of us seek out or spend our hard earned on ammunition which offers us the 'chance' of a miss, do we?

Modern hunting methods which employ modern firearms give very little chance to the quarry if we do our part properly.What chance does a soft coated animal with soft internal tissues have against a metal projectile travelling in excess of 1000fps designed specifically to penetrate and cause instantaneous death to the recipient? Modern ammunition is designed for one purpose only,and it isn't to give a 'chance.'

I can agree with much of the sentiments stated by the OP,and often feel a twinge of regret for some of the quarry I kill,especially deer,pheasants and foxes,and have stopped shooting Snipe and Woodcock altogether for personal reasons,but although the sorrow I feel for committing such acts is genuine,it is also short lived.I am a meat eater,but not because I need meat to survive, I don't, but because I enjoy the taste,and for me to do this something has to die.The fact I am more than willing to go out and get my own meat is because I enjoy it.

As for Animal Aid,I keep close tabs on them and others of their ilk,especially LACS.Ill -informed,ignorant,hypocritical,deceitful and underhanded they may be,but we ignore and underestimate them at our peril.

[Highbird70]

Dear Sirs,

 

When I was thinner with hair on my head about 20 years ago, me to, I was of the thinking, that was the killing the thrill in our sport, then since I have embrace the more traditional way, I have changed my mind.

 

What is hunting consist of, is it just the killing? ask yourself if its only that

 

Or

 

Is it, you plan your trip away, you get really excited the night before, you clean your shotgun spotless, you select your best cartridges, you phone your friends that you going with, 15 times, to try to be reassured that the next day will be the greatest of all in your hunting/shooting career, you choose what you going to wear...are tie or not...breeks or not, which jacket, then you meet up with your companions and you tell each other all kinds of adventures and experiences, you set up decoys, you do a walked up, you sitting on the marsh, you work your dogs, you miss a left and a right, you shoot a very difficult game bird at 40 yards I could right pages and pages for which reason I hunt or shoot.

Some of you, personally know me, if you ask these people of why, I'm quite happy when I miss a bird, they will tell you that my answer its always the same, " I had my sporting chance, I have missed, now I enjoy it to see it flying happily away, then back to the friends for the p@ss take". Imagine for one moment, if you take all of what I wrote and you left with just killing, would you still hunt/shoot??? I know I wouldn't.

 

I personally think and I have learned, that in our sport there is a lot to it, Traditions, respect for nature and manners, I think that this its what this Topic its all about.

 

ATB

Mark

[Reece]

The killing part is only part of going out shooting and why people enjoy shooting.

 

There's a lot to enjoy about shooting. It gets you out into the countryside. Some shooting will get you out really early in the morning when no one else is about and it's pretty much silent, always a great experience. There's the wildlife you'll observe on shooting trips because you're on private land and require stealth - most people reading this will already have wildlife experiences in mind that walkers and the like rarely experience, like seeing birds pass within metres of you when wearing full camouflage. Getting close to your quarry takes a lot of skill and when you pit your wits against an animal with their finely tuned senses and that run the gauntlet of survival every day, and you win, you can't not get satisfaction from that. Much of it is of course the thrill of the chase, when you're hunting down your quarry.

 

Remember that getting close to your quarry can be difficult with some species where wind direction is important, although it's pretty helpful for most quarry species. That makes stalking animals more difficult, and it feels so much better when you get a successful shot.

 

Taking the shot takes skill and hitting your target, whether it's a deer with a .243, a rabbit with an air rifle or a pigeon with a shotgun, isn't guaranteed. Getting a shot just right and hitting your target is challenging and satisfying when you get it right.

 

After that the shot quarry will usually be taken home unless it's something inedible like a rat. Then you get even more pleasure from preparing and then eating the meat, safe in the knowledge that it has had a good life and a quick and painless death, as well as being tasty and healthy. On pheasant, partridge, grouse, etc shoot days, there's the social aspect to it, as well as eating the meat.

 

 

But is there any pleasure to be had in the killing part of it? Not for me, but a kill means success and success is good. Animal rights activists who focus on one small part of the whole sport and say that shooting is "killing for pleasure" while ignoring every other aspect of shooting really don't see the whole picture.

[motty]

 

Then one would also hope that you are doing it because it is necessary - that is the line between pleasure in shooting and pleasure in killing where the purpose is not for food.

I totally disagree. Any ducks or geese i shoot this season will not have been shot for food, nor be a pest to anyone. The only reason for me to kill them is because i enjoy doing so. That is not to say the birds will go to waste, i shall eat them.

[camokid]

not one of you on here are held at gun point and told to kill that bird/animal YOU ALL CHOOSE TO DO SO why? because you want too... weather its a rat rabbit fox deer you chose to ends its life for what reason .don't hind behind pest control you are not forced... if you feel like that sell you guns don't shoot animals have a hobbie change....

 

if a fox kills a chicken and most of my farmers don't have chickens .. do you have to kill it ,,,no.... does he make you kill it,,, no..... you do it because that's why your there...

 

we all have a choice we don't have to kill anything this day and age

[colin lad]

i don't go town shopping with the missus because i don't like shopping

i do go lamping rabbits stalking deer sit in a hide and shoot pigeon and crow,

 

colin

[Highbird70]

There.....for the people that say, that its all about the killing.....I have found a great opportunity and a new hobby, you can thank me later :whistling:

 

 

http://www.abattoir.org.uk/abattoir-jobs.html

[karpman]

There.....for the people that say, that its all about the killing.....I have found a great opportunity and a new hobby, you can thank me later :whistling:

 

 

http://www.abattoir.org.uk/abattoir-jobs.html

Lol but that's a job already have 2 of them.

 

Karpman

[jasper3]

interesting thread, if you read it correctly,

 

I am very lucky with my permission, i get to shoot the way i like , I do shoot for the table, so only shoot what i need, the farmer also likes this, he once told me, "jasper, i never want to come into a field and not see a rabbit, but i don't want to see hundreds of the *******"

 

I don't get the adrenalin rush, but i do get a joy when the shot was spot on , knowing the thing would have been dead before hitting the ground

 

I have on one or two occasions had a bad shot , followed by a quick 2nd kill shot... i don't get much joy when that happens, but these things do happen...

 

I would say shooting at paper and clays, is sport... shooting rabbits, pigeon, crows, deer and fox is hunting , I don't know what group i would stick driven game in, in my eyes its not really hunting, sporting !!! maybe

 

soon i will be rearing things like sheep pigs turkeys and other things.... i will give them a good life, they will be kept warm, clean and fed well... they will then be killed and eaten

[zx10mike]

i find most people against killing get into a car with bugs splatted all over the bonnet but there not fury and cute so that is ok double standards

[BRNDL]

i find most people against killing get into a car with bugs splatted all over the bonnet but there not fury and cute so that is ok double standards

I don't think anyone has said they are against killing.

[hedd-wyn]

I'm probably on my own here,but I can't agree that hunting is sport.I'm not looking for an argument I just don't see it.Regardless of dictionary definitions hunting developed from the need to provide food for survival,not for recreational purposes, which sport is.Most indigenous tribes of all nations soon favoured modern firearms rather than their bows and arrows once given the opportunity.

I don't believe in the sporting shot either.Firearms and in particular the 'shot' cartridge,was developed to give man the hunter a distinct advantage over his quarry,not to give it a 'sporting' chance.I can understand what is meant by a 'sporting' chance of course,and even by the 'sporting' shot,but both of these by their very definition describe a 'chance' that the shooter will miss,and if there's a chance of this,then surely the chance of wounding also,and this is not desirable.Leaving a bird or whatever to gain a respectable distance prior to shooting is based on commonsense of the understanding that at close range it would be rendered inedible and therefore a waste of good meat.The same criteria doesn't apply to vermin.

Foxes are hunted by Hounds for sport of course;for recreational purposes,and to claim it is still done for the purposes of pest control is ludicrous in my opinion.It once was,obviously,but given the modern methods we now have for this purpose, traditional hunting with hounds as pest control has to be one of the most costly and impractical practises going,and existed primarily because there was no other method. s

The whole point of modern firearms and the technology behind the ammunition we employ is to place every conceivable advantage squarely in the hands of the shooter.None of us seek out or spend our hard earned on ammunition which offers us the 'chance' of a miss, do we?

Modern hunting methods which employ modern firearms give very little chance to the quarry if we do our part properly.What chance does a soft coated animal with soft internal tissues have against a metal projectile travelling in excess of 1000fps designed specifically to penetrate and cause instantaneous death to the recipient? Modern ammunition is designed for one purpose only,and it isn't to give a 'chance.'

I can agree with much of the sentiments stated by the OP,and often feel a twinge of regret for some of the quarry I kill,especially deer,pheasants and foxes,and have stopped shooting Snipe and Woodcock altogether for personal reasons,but although the sorrow I feel for committing such acts is genuine,it is also short lived.I am a meat eater,but not because I need meat to survive, I don't, but because I enjoy the taste,and for me to do this something has to die.The fact I am more than willing to go out and get my own meat is because I enjoy it.

As for Animal Aid,I keep close tabs on them and others of their ilk,especially LACS.Ill -informed,ignorant,hypocritical,deceitful and underhanded they may be,but we ignore and underestimate them at our peril.

Superb post Scully, this pretty much sums it up for me.

[evo]

DADIOLES,,

 

a very interesting post mate, also one which does sorry has made me read it a second time ,

 

excellent, also some certainly different replies, some good , some a bit strange, but all to their own views, well worth the read so far, thoroughly enjoyable,

 

cheers evo