aister Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 As far as I could make out from the OP's first post he wants to be able to leave the 243 home when shooting rabbits and foxes, maybe I read it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted October 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 As far as I could make out from the OP's first post he wants to be able to leave the 243 home when shooting rabbits and foxes, maybe I read it wrong. Yes, you have it right. If I am specifically going fallow stalking I can use the 243. I was after a rifle that would take rabbits without utterly destroying them, but have the power to satisfactorily drop foxes, I cannot rely on the HMR to do that unless close and headshot, that can be rather limiting. If said rifle was also small muntjac and cwd legal even better. And it needs to be home load friendly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) Yes, you have it right. If I am specifically going fallow stalking I can use the 243. I was after a rifle that would take rabbits without utterly destroying them, but have the power to satisfactorily drop foxes, I cannot rely on the HMR to do that unless close and headshot, that can be rather limiting. If said rifle was also small muntjac and cwd legal even better. And it needs to be home load friendly If it was just rabbits and foxes I would go .17 hornet but as others have said .222 (or .223 but I prefer the .222) is probably the most versatile for your needs. There is also Roe if you go north of the border. Edited October 4, 2013 by r1steele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salop Matt Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 .22 Hornet sounds like it would do nicely ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1steele Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 .22 Hornet sounds like it would do nicely ! I suggested .17 hornet but I agree that the .22 hornet fills the same need if it wasn't for the CWD and Munties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) Take a look, I'm not having a go, simply presenting another perspective! Well perhaps. I'm chopping in my .22 long rifle. Never used and I'd rather see someone else get pleasure from this cracking little rifle. However, I'm sort of losing my love affair with the HMR. Whilst it's great at bunny bashing out to 100+ yards it's frankly useless as a foxing round unless you're pretty close and can get a head shot in. Sorry, but I'm struggling with that, my HMR is a relatively close range tool but I have no issue taking foxes to 100yards or a little more with it, if the right situation presents. So, invariably I end up going to some places with both HMR and .243 on-board. I quite often take 2-3 sometimes even 4 rifles to jobs with mixed problems. That's not so handy when on foot and an opportunity presents itself though, That's life, it can happen to any of us! and some places I go the landowners are as keen to knock out the foxes as they are the rabbits. Well, spend a night or two dealing with foxes then, the .243 is probably the best long range fox calibre going, and if they are close the HMR/.22lr will be just fine. Whilst I want to keep the .243 (whatever some of you think, I like the .243 Win, it's always served me well for deer) I would like recommendations on a calibre that will: • Allow reloading, so that rules out rimfire • Shop bought ammo at reasonable costs, hopefully less than HMR at (I pay) £13.50 a box. Shop bought what ammo, at what quantity for less than £13.50 box (50?)? • Be good enough for rabbits without utterly smashing them to pieces if head shot you can take the head off a rabbit with a massively powerful calibre if you take the right shot, and leave it fine for the table. • Be good enough to drop foxes at reasonable ranges (150+ yards) .243 I was looking at .22hornet, .20tac, .17hornet etc. but I'm happy to hand it over to the PW massive, Kent is usually pretty clued up when it comes to calibres. As long as they are all the Hornet! I admit, I'm lost on this one. You are not the only one, nobody has invented this ONE gun yet! Stick with the HMR and .243! Edited October 4, 2013 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooter Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 I would keep them all and get another slot for a .223. Everyone rifle shooter should have a .22lr in the cab. If nothing else you can't beat it for a prolonged zeroing/range session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olliesims Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) My cabinet has 2 rifles, .17hmr and a .243 they both do me fine for rabbits foxes and deer, keep what you got, there perfect for every situation Edited October 4, 2013 by Olliesims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 • Allow reloading, so that rules out rimfire • Shop bought ammo at reasonable costs, hopefully less than HMR at (I pay) £13.50 a box. • Be good enough for rabbits without utterly smashing them to pieces if head shot • Be good enough to drop foxes at reasonable ranges (150+ yards) • Allow reloading, so that rules out rimfire .22 Hornet suits all the above except factory ammo prices, the very reason rimfire exists is cost of production being less than c/f. All deer legal is out as .243 win is the start calibre, it will kill bunnies but forget about picking them up! .222 rem will handload down to .22 WMR energy or hornet levels and be legal for Roe in Scotland and munies and chinks here, As will .223 rem. The Hornet Will Kill the life out of any fox at 200yds plus some but remember its 2 moa low 4" of drop from a 130 yds zero at 200 and 5.6 MOA on FV 10mph (getting on for 1ft) so conditions need to be favourable. At the 160 yds you mention about 1" low and 4 MOA fv, 10mph. These figures relate to a 45grn Seirra Hornet bullet at 2900 fps (very achievable) As for accuracy in the CZ 527 fed good ammo should keep MOA or thereabouts to 200yds (which basically means it will outshoot 95% of its users)Head shots on bunnies are well do-able within the parameters of the above ballistics if the shooter is up to it under the prevailing conditions at the time in question All that said if I could only own 1 gun and the Deer act had never been written then personally I should get a real nice .222 and feel I could competently drop anything in the UK by using restraint and respect as appropriate. But the law is the law and its there for good reason - buy two guns and shoot deer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 I agree with Fister - .222 is about the best compromise. They are superb guns and very accurate so head shots on bunnies will not be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted October 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Oddly, I had been away contemplating this and that's the conclusion I came to too. Keep both in the truck, take one on foot (either HMR or 243) depending on what I intend to do. Maybe put in for a variation for a .222 in place of the .22lr, which I never use, and that allows reasonable cost home loading and tailoring for specific needs. Mind you, by the time I buy all the reloading gear I may as well just keep throwing 100gn soft nosed or 85gn ballistic tips at everything! As the cert has to go back to take the .22lr off I may as well ask to put the .222 on at the same time, that way I'm covered for the future and keep a slot open. Thanks everyone for your thoughts and comments. Mick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 I could just about load my Hornet for the same price as my old HMR. To get it cheaper with factory ammo just isn't going to happen, and the bigger you go the harder it will get. I would lean towards the Hornet and home load it if money is an issue. It's no good for any of the deer species but I've got to say that I feel you're asking too much by throwing deer into the equation. You simply cannot have a good clean rabbit calibre that is deer legal. It doesn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted October 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 You knows that. I have also come to that conclusion. I can get a fox and deer calibre that is also a bunny blatter, but not a calibre that will gently caress the head off a rabbits whilst simulateously bowling over basil at ballistic ranges. If it's going to be a cheaper-than-243-centrefire but small deer legal it'll be the .222. If an out and out bunny blatter and fox tool then .204, 22hornet, 17hornet all fit the bill nicely. I think I'll ask for a .222 to go in that slot and make my mind up on what I want most. Meantime, it's worth continuing as is with the two rifles I have left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 I'm surprised that you're getting rid of the .22lr. Of course I don't know what kind of shooting you do or your ground, but for me the lack of noise and low cost of ammo and guns means that I will always have a .22lr in my safe. I couldn't be without it! You could make up soft lead bullets for a .22 Hornet that will perform similar to the lr, but it's a lot of effort. You would then need to know how to adjust your scope from one round to the other when shooting regular loads, and I have no idea how a mix of lead and jacketed bullets going through the gun without cleaning it at each change will shoot. My guess would be not well. Swapping your HMR for a small centrefire could be a smart move but consider the number of rounds you'll use. When I was loading for my Hornet in the days when I was using a lot of ammo it was a real chore. I was putting down hundreds of rounds every week and feeding it took a lot of time. Outside of work, I pretty much lived for shooting. I did little else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 A good HV lr round might just be the ticket! A good honest 80yd thumper it gives be it rabbit or fox. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 .204 - Awesome round !! I usually pay around £90/100 for Hornady Varmint Express 32g V Max & sell the spent cases for £20.00/100 Good round mate.......trying to think where I have seen them in action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 90 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 How's the Hmr ?? You must have Christened it by now !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Planning on a trip this evening.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 90 Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 I'm off today but going to see Sarah Millican tonight so won't be out - our T&I should end midweek so I'll be back to normal hours. We'll have a night or two out soon mate !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprackles Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 I'm off today but going to see Sarah Millican tonight so won't be out - our T&I should end midweek so I'll be back to normal hours. We'll have a night or two out soon mate !! Good stuff....I'm still off for the next 3 weeks at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Most of the calibers you have thought about run a small pill very fast, this is no good to the meat. 204 running 3000+ smashes the hell out of rabbits but it knocks foxes with no problem hornet is in the same boat, it has stopped me buying for the moment. i have a few photos of what it dose to 200 meter rabbit heads. 222 run slow works ok, i run one as 2270 but i use a BT, this messes up rabbit shoulders. some one mentions the 22WMR, ok its a rimmed but, its sort of talking the right way, good on the rabbits, but still carries enough for the fox. I think if it was me i would be look heavy and slow. loading a round that will push though rather than smash its way though would serve well. might sound sill but 308 can be loads subsonic and there is a fair bit of information on it. I think you might struggle with a do both well calibre, i think you might need to compromise a little. 17 hornet for both, little less head damage than the 22hh and keep a cheap 22lr as a back up. all the best Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Believe it or not when I was selling rabbit to a dealer I use to down load a 308 for windy nights..I mean real windy. It worked perfectly. Did the same with 30wcf years ago. I did think of 357m and mentioned it earlier for the same reasons. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenhunter Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 I'm in no way suggesting it but why has no-one mentioned the 22/250. I've seen it drop rabbits at 150+ and the meat was still useable. Is it that out of favour? GH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 I'm in no way suggesting it but why has no-one mentioned the 22/250. I've seen it drop rabbits at 150+ and the meat was still useable. Is it that out of favour? GH Cracking round . U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicykillgaz Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 What about a hornet with two loads 40gr vmax or 45gr soft points for fox and fmj's for rabbits to minimise damage. To be fair i use 40gr vmax on rabbit and as long as you hit them in the skull the body is untouched, not much left of the exit side of the head but your not gonna eat it so it's no biggie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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