Another childs life taken

[Nikk]

 

And please no " but my 8 stone Rottweiler loves our three toddlers and wouldn't hurt a fly even if they beat it over the head with a rolling pin " type of replies..

 

 

It was a bulldog that killed the girl. How aggressive a dog is has got jack all to do with the breed, just some have more power. If my Labrador was aggressive it could easily kill a 4 year old girl so what does the breed have anything to do with this case?

 

The problem is that we as a society have become disconnected with dogs which is a terrible shame and most people don't understand them anymore. These people got a 'rescue' dog and left it alone after only having it for 6 or 7 weeks and no doubt NO training nor knowing anything about it's history! This could have happened with almost any breed. People should learn a thing or two about dogs before getting one and then make sure they have the right training and introduce it in to their homes correctly which clearly didn't happen here.

 

Most of your 'ideas' wouldn't have saved the girl.

[countryman]

Seeing the pictures of that little girl in the paper really does play on your mind, this would be horrendous at any age, but 4 years old.

Chris

[pontbeck]

This another tragic case of ineptitude on behalf of the rescue and insufficient knowledge from the mother.

We have dogs in rescue which should be euthanised not given to inappropriate owners. Those who rescue dogs are determined to place them back into society when the best course of action, for a good number, would be to have them PTS.

No dog is 100% safe and to leave a child alone with a dog can have cataclysmic results as this unfortunate mother has found to her cost, she will live with this for the rest of her life and I feel truly sorry for her and more so for the child but who would give a dog of the size and age to a one parent family living in a flat ?

[Fisherman Mike]

 

It was a bulldog that killed the girl. How aggressive a dog is has got jack all to do with the breed, just some have more power. If my Labrador was aggressive it could easily kill a 4 year old girl so what does the breed have anything to do with this case?

 

The problem is that we as a society have become disconnected with dogs which is a terrible shame and most people don't understand them anymore. These people got a 'rescue' dog and left it alone after only having it for 6 or 7 weeks and no doubt NO training nor knowing anything about it's history! This could have happened with almost any breed. People should learn a thing or two about dogs before getting one and then make sure they have the right training and introduce it in to their homes correctly which clearly didn't happen here.

 

Most of your 'ideas' wouldn't have saved the girl.

 

 

This is essentially the crux of the matter, The 21st century dog has very much gone beyond domestication.... they have become humanised, it is revered and given a place in the home often around children some even a status above children..it has become a pet in the true meaning of the word, a fashion accessory a child substitute and a sign of status, is it any wonder many are troubled, confused and suffer behavioural problems. Dare I say it many are expected to reproduce akin to the rest of the family. Why is this, ? Why do owners breed dogs they cannot retain or have potential owners for unless its purely for financial reasons. ? What possible purpose does it serve to cross breed completely unrelated breeds. ?

 

Case in point..we are considering rehoming a 4 year bitch of breed X in March but it will be available only after having its final litter by some obscure breed I cant even name...( the two breeds are not even remotely alike ) My wife asked the person, concerned bluntly why and she said it was because that's what she does, is divorced and a single mum and can get 500 - 600 quid each for the pups. ! When she said that we must not let her kids find out that the dam was going and there was the possibility of separation issues we rather reconsidered our decision....No real consideration for the future of the Bitch and the psychological effect it might have .....its jobs been done and as long as its got a warm fire every thing is rosy in the world. Now in my old fashioned world I find that fundamentally wrong !

 

No you are possibly right..my suggestions would not have saved the girl, ultimately she was killed by stupidity and ignorance and perhaps our propensity to elevate an animal beyond its canine status...

 

My late Grandfather bred and kept Gundogs for many of the local estates....he really used to get particularly aggrieved when I was a lad and asked to play with the dogs... I can remember his booming voice now " a dog is a dog its not to be played with..toys are to be played with ...if you want a pet get a budgie "

 

Perhaps this is where we have gone wrong.

[Nikk]

Society is broken full stop and I don't know what we can do about it but dogs are a great tool to show us if we are behaving normally or not...and clearly we aren't. Why people drive like d*** heads, why do people stab their entire family to death, and why do we have more dog attacks than ever before. Humans and dogs have an intertwined history spanning 30,000 years yet only in the last 20 years have major problems become the norm.

 

In a nutshell I think no matter how much legislation we put on car/dog/gun ownership nothing will change....we are a broken society.

 

For the record I do trust my dog 100% with my daughter and will continue to do so. I know without a doubt he would never hurt her.

[welsh1]

Society is broken full stop and I don't know what we can do about it but dogs are a great tool to show us if we are behaving normally or not...and clearly we aren't. Why people drive like d*** heads, why do people stab their entire family to death, and why do we have more dog attacks than ever before. Humans and dogs have an intertwined history spanning 30,000 years yet only in the last 20 years have major problems become the norm.

 

In a nutshell I think no matter how much legislation we put on car/dog/gun ownership nothing will change....we are a broken society.

 

For the record I do trust my dog 100% with my daughter and will continue to do so. I know without a doubt he would never hurt her.

It is a dog you never know what it is thinking or what it might do,please do not trust it 100%

 

A little story,while in the Army my mate has a GSD it was from a great lineage with police dog champions in it's line,the dog came to work in our work shop every day and was the most well behaved and loyal dog i ever met,he was a credit to my mate.

 

My mate took his dog for a walk and then took him to stay with a neighbour for the weekend while they went to a wedding down the country.Two hours later my mate had a call from the neighbour telling him his dog had been shot,and his neighbour had 28 stitches in his arm and 14 in his calf.

 

My mate was told by the vet later that the dog had a huge brain haemorrhage,this had probably started before the walk and had slowly caused the dog pain in its skull until the major bleed began and the dog would not have known what it was doing,it was shot through the letter box as it was such a powerful animal there was a real fear it would eventually smash through a window in the door or the living room,and at the time they did not know why it was going tonto.

 

So please as much as you trust your dog,you will never know what it is thinking,i say that while my spaniel is laying at my feet,being loyal to me.

[TaxiDriver]

A tragic loss of life.

 

A knee-jerk blanket approach to every dog owner, based on the actions a small number of irresponsible owners who ought to be subject to severe sanction rather than imposing unnecessary controls on the vast majority?

 

Is it any wonder firearms legislation in this country has developed as it has?

 

Those parents have lost their child !!!

What earthly possible more severe sanction could you possibly administer

 

They alone and other family members will have the rest of their lives to remember this

[overandunder2012]

 

All dogs whatever their size should be muzzled in public places

this would solve all the outside issues , pity the government cant see it as a sensible solution but that would be to sensible so they do what they always do... not alot

[grrclark]

I disagree that we are a broken society, rather we are an evolving society. Some of that evolution based around our own personal standards may be considered a decline, but some of it is certainly an advancement.

 

I am also not so sure that we can look at the last 20 years and consider that dog human interaction has become more problematic in that timescale, undoubtably accessibility to news about this has become richer so it appears to be more of a problem, equally statistical record keeping has become much more advanced so there may be more recorded instances, but I would wager that there is no bigger a problem now that there has ever been.

 

There are millions of dogs in our society so in real terms the level of problems are absolutely tiny, but a story of 'child left with dog, nothing happens' is not newsworthy in the least.

 

It's fair that nobody can really know for sure what their dog may do in a given circumstance, but that is equally true about humans. My suspicion would be more infants die as a result of having a drunken parent taking them to bed with them and inadvertently suffocating them than die as a result of a dog attack.

 

 

Typo edit*

Edited November 6, 2013 by grrclark

[grrclark]

this would solve all the outside issues , pity the government cant see it as a sensible solution but that would be to sensible so they do what they always do... not alot

 

All persons drinking in pubs should have their wrists shackled, this would solve all the issues of people having punch ups after drinking too much.

[overandunder2012]

 

All persons drinking in pubs should have their wrists shackled, this would solve all the issues of people having punch ups after drinking too much.

good idea well done but people are responsible for themselfs dogs are not

[grrclark]

good idea well done but people are responsible for themselfs dogs are not

The vast majority of owners are responsible for their dogs behaviour. Sadly the trend within UK society seems to be an abdication of responsibility such that we want to resort to imposing blanket conditions as a result of something that is completely in the minority.

 

Examples recently would be the couple who are petitioning to have window blind cords banned as their child very sadly choked to death after falling inside the loop of one; or in a completely different example banning burkhas because of the lad absconding from his minders by dressing up in one.

 

Bank robbers have been using stockings to cover their faces for years, should we ban those? What about gloves as they are used by thieves to stop leaving fingerprints?

 

Yes those last two questions are stupid, but in essence that is what we as a society will ultimately promote. So many people complain that the state is too pervasive and intrusive, watching over everything we do, yet as a society we sheepishly follow in line and actually volunteer ever more control to the state as a result of what is a tiny tiny amount of bad things happening.

[neil82]

in this great modern society that we now live in where we are controlled by brain dead lying politicians who KNOW WHAT SHOULD BE DONE, REGARDLESS OF WHAT MAKES ANY SENSE, would it not be easier to just kill all dogs on sight, takes all debate out of the subject and solves the problem

the original post sums up all that's wrong now, change laws and make them more robust to make it seem as we are doing something to prevent it happening again, sounds good but the real problem now is plod and the courts have no real clue as to how to enforce existing legislation, laws to force neutering may make a bigger change (owners, not animals)

[huds78]

_{I hadn`t heard about this until I see this thread, Really sad story and I feel for the parents and yet another reason that my 2 kids, 6 & 5, are not left alone with my Bulldog although he is soppy as and has been brought up playing with them since he was 12 weeks old etc etc but ONLY under supervision as you do never know. The Breed in this case not really relevent as it could have been any dog but its being reported as a Bulldog but that dog does not look like a Bulldog to me ? (Not the bourdeux pic but the 2nd dog named) It has a tail for one Bulldogs don`t, Possibly an American Bulldog (similar name but a breed of its own) but more likely a Bulldog cross.}

Edited November 7, 2013 by huds78

[bicykillgaz]

THIS kind of sententious twaddle is WHY we are in such a mess in this country....knee jerk and unconsidered reaction, lack of any understanding of dogs and NO idea of the real "risk"

 

1) we have become so overinformed (the real rate of dog attacks(per 100000 population) including fatal ones is only slightly higher TODAY than it was 50 years ago, which can be attributed to greater population density.) Its just more reported. so now we hear on NATIONAL news of an attack 300miles away, whereas 50 years ago you probably would not have heard about on in the next town.

 

2) we have become irrationally risk averse,

 

3 EVERYONE is suddenly "everymans champion" in the campaigning stakes

 

4) more and more folks seem to think that more regulation (and cost) is the solution to everything.....which is why in the next few years we will, if we are NOT VERY careful either not have guns at all...or will be paying an arm, two legs and a kidney to get the permit.

 

NOW BEFORE anyone accuses me of lacking in feeling about this ...you are wrong, it is terribly terribly sad, heaven only knows what the parents are going through, BUT THIS DOES NOT justify more intervention and regulation....everything we do is regulated out of sight, priced out and spoiled for the majority, on the rabid howlings of a minority at the stupidity of yet another minority.

 

Totally agree, it's a terrible thing that's happened and I feel sorry for the family but ultimately it is down to them. Not sure if anyone else has already pointed this out but the family knew this dog had been abused as it was covered in scars etc when the got it. They also had it illegally in the terms of there tenancy agreement, they live on a housing association owned estate where tennants need a permit to have a pet, she didn't have the permit.

 

She apparently wanted the dog for company why not a get a small dog as someone else mentioned. I also think the rehoming center needs a kick in the backside for rehoming this dog in this situation. It's ok telling people yeah he's great with kids, cats etc but with any dog there will always be the risk of something flicking that switch, and with small children it's most likely a finger down the ear or in the eye by accident or through curiosity but a dog will react in one way and that's to bite. If someone isn't strong enough to restrain the pet they should never be rehomed with it.

 

A dog this size should of only been considered for rehoming with an experienced owner and no sensible parent would have taken a 10-12st dog they believed to have been abused to rehome with a small child.

 

The blame rest equally with the cretin that mistreated the dog originally, the rehoming center for letting them take the dog and the family for going for a trophy pet rather than a sensible family pet.

 

I just hope that poor little girl didn't suffer.

 

Edit- The dog is a dogue de Bordeaux a type of French mastiff, same as the dog in the tom hanks film 'turner and hooch' extremely powerful dog use for tracking, cornering and if needed taking down wild boar!

Edited November 7, 2013 by bicykillgaz

[njc110381]

Mike 100 % agree but would add change the law which prevents prosecution of an owner if a dog attacks someone on private property.

 

Guy up here went into a garden to save his cat being torn to pieces by a staffy/mastiff cross type. Got savaged himself, leg and arm bites.

 

Sorry, but I disagree. Had the dog escaped I could see your point entirely, but it was secure in it's garden and protecting it's land/owner. It's pretty common sense that if a dog is kicking off, you do not go into it's territory like a hero to try to control it. If it was a child in there of course you would, but for his cat the guy should have had more sense! Looked at a different way, now this dog has to be on a lead etc because some dipstick did exactly what you would do if you wanted to get attacked by a dog! The breed has nothing to do with it.

 

A tragic loss of life.

 

A knee-jerk blanket approach to every dog owner, based on the actions a small number of irresponsible owners who ought to be subject to severe sanction rather than imposing unnecessary controls on the vast majority?

 

Is it any wonder firearms legislation in this country has developed as it has?

 

Nail on head... Yes there is an issue with some owners but perhaps circumstances and character of the owner should be considered whilst handing out tougher punishments? Things like this are terrible and I really don't know what can be done about it, but kids and adults are killed every day by all sorts of things. Should cars not be allowed within 500 yards of a school at opening and closing time? Should kitchen knives be kept in a locked cupboard or box? Should anyone under the age of 18 be allowed to cross the road without adult supervision?

 

The list can go on for ever and I'm afraid I strongly appose control of things that are, at least with the majority, self regulated by parents/owners.

[westmids1987]

Edit- The dog is a dogue de Bordeaux a type of French mastiff, same as the dog in the tom hanks film 'turner and hooch' extremely powerful dog use for tracking, cornering and if needed taking down wild boar!

Initially thought to be a douge but police have confirmed the dog in the pics with the girl (douge) that has been circulating are not of the dog involved in the attack,it was a bulldog involved in the attack,not that the breed matters when you rehome a damaged dog with a 4 year ild

[bicykillgaz]

Initially thought to be a douge but police have confirmed the dog in the pics with the girl (douge) that has been circulating are not of the dog involved in the attack,it was a bulldog involved in the attack,not that the breed matters when you rehome a damaged dog with a 4 year ild

Cheers for the correction mate, seems weird it being a bulldog I wouldn't of thought a proper English bulldog would have the tight jaw shape or physicality to "throw her round like a rag doll". They generally tend to have undershot jaws which I would have thought poor at gripping in the way that's been described.

 

My money is on poor journalism or poorly informed police and it's actually an American bulldog which are far bigger, stronger and agile than the British equivalent.

 

Everything else I said I still stand by, previous owner, rehoming center and girls family are all equally to blame. Shame that little girl paid with her life for their mistakes. Bless her.

[Matty7247]

In light of this tragic accident, and to stop other's being hurt. I propose that we all live in giant bubble balls, do not drive, do not drink, do not smoke, eat only foods the Gov deem safe.

 

Ban any type of fire arm, (Obviously, the already stringent laws on ownership has stopped people being called by them) And ban any type of animal that can cause injury. This would include rabbits, cats, budgys and any other creature with teeth.

 

On a serious note, why would a single mum, living in a tiny flat, without a garden, want to own a great big dog from a rescue center? Why not go and buy a small puppy, or even adopt a small breed dog from the center??

 

I have read the police are looking into criminal proccedings against the mother. The mother whose child was killed by her Uncles dog, and she knew how dangerous the dog was, as he was a drug dealer, and kept the dog for protection, is now on the high horse stating all dogs should be muzzled when around under 12's?

 

Muzzling dogs in public places wont stop attacks, as most attacks happen at home, so how would that be policed? All dogs that live in should be muzzled at all times??

 

A serious dose of common sense in required here, other wise we may as well just give up.

[westmids1987]

Cheers for the correction mate, seems weird it being a bulldog I wouldn't of thought a proper English bulldog would have the tight jaw shape or physicality to "throw her round like a rag doll". They generally tend to have undershot jaws which I would have thought poor at gripping in the way that's been described.

 

My money is on poor journalism or poorly informed police and it's actually an American bulldog which are far bigger, stronger and agile than the British equivalent.

 

Everything else I said I still stand by, previous owner, rehoming center and girls family are all equally to blame. Shame that little girl paid with her life for their mistakes. Bless her.

Yes i agree doesnt look like a classic bulldog,theres a few similar breeds incl the american bulldog,the classic bulldog does have very powefull jaws during tests,usually very soft dogs but no history with this one who knows how it was treated,if the rehoming centre knew about the child they should be held accountable,yes i agree on the poor journalism,rip poor girl

[overandunder2012]

The vast majority of owners are responsible for their dogs behaviour. Sadly the trend within UK society seems to be an abdication of responsibility such that we want to resort to imposing blanket conditions as a result of something that is completely in the minority.

 

 

cant see another solution expecting responsibility from some dog owners isnt going to happen in my life time i expect to see more problems not less. so im in favor of muzzles i have 2 dogs and would quite happily muzzle them on walks if in general a) it helped prevent deaths and i could walk the dogs without ***** with uncontrolled dogs off the lead charging at mine

have yet to hear anyone come up with a easier solution but as i said before something easy to enforce and inexpensive would be to easy.so fear not i doubt it will happen. the only reason a dog needs to be able to bite while on a walk is to defend its self if they are all muzzled theres no worries of attacks. any un muzzled dogs you see photo of to old bill shop easy proof

 

dog attacks on family members at home that's a different matter god knows how you solve that 1, but i will say people choose their dogs unwisely sometimes.

Edited November 7, 2013 by overandunder2012

[Fuji Shooter]

The Dogs Trust down the road from us do not let you have a dog unless you have a reasonable and fully fenced rear garden.

 

Shame other rescue centres do not take it so seriously. That is not a dog for a flat.

[DNS]

 

Those parents have lost their child !!!

What earthly possible more severe sanction could you possibly administer

 

 

Point taken - but what if it were someone else's child? What about the point of view of the estranged father who might regard the child's mother as responsible for the circumstances which led to a tragic loss of life?

 

I've sacked people in the past for causing 'accidents' in which they themselves were the only one of my employees hurt. To not take action is to condone the behaviour on the grounds that 'they've suffered enough'.

 

Purely my view and I don't expect anyone to pay the slightest attention to it, but I'm not participating in some vicarious grieving process either; the only one I feel sorry for is the child.

[old rooster]

It really is simplicity itself if anybody really wanted to sort it out.

 

No need for licencing although it would perhaps create yet more unproductive jobs.

 

Dogs and any other domestic animals for that matter are the responsibility of the owner/handler.

 

Dogs left on private premises can reasonably be expected to protect said premises from uninvited intruders. If you are in somebody's house/garden uninvited expect to get sorted.

 

Dogs on public land must be controlled by the owner. Any damage they do to other dogs, people or property are solely the responsibility of the owner/handler at the time of incident.

 

Penalties for allowing ones dog to damage other dogs/people will be very severe (as if the owner him/herself had inflicted the damage) and enforced rigorously in the courts.

 

People who leave a child alone in a house with a dog that later kills or maims said child can be seen to have been negligent and should be punished severely.

 

That way sensible dog owners, who lets face it make up the large majority, aren't smothered by petty "dumbing down" legislation, which seems to be the usual way of dealing with problems these days

 

It all comes back to responsibility, responsibility, responsibility! You can thank the bliarites for trying to absolve the population of any responsibility but the consequences of that are plain to see surely?

Edited November 7, 2013 by old rooster

[kent]

As the owners got the dog from a rescue centre were they were assured by staff the dog was just fine with kids, I think there is only two persons at fault here. 1. the original owner who perhaps dumped it for temperament issues? 2. the stupid member of staff who made that statement. If either of these did the right thing the dog would never have been re-homed.

 

People diddle about with dodgy dogs these days, they want permanently removing from the gene pool, let face it our ancestors gave us this legacy of large predatory animals we could keep in the home by their selection of good stock. It wont take many generations to mess it up. Namby- pamby liberalism towards unsound animals in unsustainable and you cant legislate for idiots we have too many laws as it is - what is required in good old common sense (which seems far from common these days)

 

Human aggression issues are best handled by the dog being PTS not re-socialisation. Here lies the consequences of the modern way going wrong! My deepest sympathy to the parents of the child