poontang Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Universities offering bulls*** courses that have no worth in the real world. I know dozens of people who went on to uni and non of them have a job in the area they chose a degree in because they went to uni for the experience not an education. Is of course the correct answer ........and the solution is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Steady on chap, you'll be thrown out of PW for that tree-hugging, communist, bleeding heart liberal talk..... power to the people Edited January 3, 2014 by overandunder2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead-Eyed Duck Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Is of course the correct answer ........and the solution is? The answer of course is education of the correct type.... When I was a youngster most Uni scholars came from 'wealthy' families who could afford to support their offspring. It was part of the right of passage of the upper social classes, and as such differentiated them from the lower echelons who at best went to a technical college etc. Then came along the political scam to vastly increase the numbers going to Uni as a means of reducing the unemployment numbers......... Nowadays if you don't go to Uni then you are seen to be underprivileged as missing out on the 'experience' of going to Uni - all part of the similar 'experience' of taking out a gap year to see the world.... Having a huge debt to pay off at the end of the Uni experience is somehow seen to be acceptable, even if you don't have a job at the end of it. As the comedy show said - at least you have an 'ology', which is something to be admired, somehow. Along with the vogue of going to Uni was the decline in apprenticeships. "Why, you don't a job that dirties your hands, do you?" I did all right in not going to Uni, and most of my classmates did too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Lots of these proffesionals still cannot speak or understand the English language. My brother had a problem whilst on holiday in the west country,, and ended up at Haverford west Hospital, on returning home ,he attended The Royal Oldham Hospital and asked the specialist what had caused the problem, the coloured specialist advised my brother that he was suffering from TENBY.Yes these high end immigrants are a real asset to our country. I could go on. from Auntie. Your brother can count himself very lucky to have survived TENBY! Good job the doctor spotted that in time to offer a cure. Did he prescribe penis illin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 . Did he prescribe penis illin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Perhaps you should take a quick look at the Times rich list, not many British born in the top 20, maybe 3 or 4 and of those some are from immigrant stock. Therein old bean you have confirmed exactly my point! It is a small minority of immigrants who bring value to the country and these would pass the type of tests that other non EU countries apply to immigration applicants. So we seem to be reaching some degree of consensus that immigration is OK but not if uncontrolled? That of course only applies if we want OUR country to again be prosperous and our population to enjoy better levels of employment and lower levels of taxation. Both surely worthwhile things to aspire to? As for why we have to import expertise it is because dear old liebore encouraged over a decade of pointless university "education" to reduce the unemployment figures. People took out student loans to take courses that would never offer them employment opportunities so the loans would never be repaid. Encouraging people to take up valid further education is commendable but for the public purse to fund people to go to university as a hobby pursuit pretty disgraceful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Yes and a kick up the **** for our own lot even if it means drastically reducing benefits and increase the wage to make it worth working. But greed will get in the way of that. a good point if its not worth working as you cant get a wage you can live on but you can by not working, well its not rocket science is it only an idiot would do 40 hours of manual labor for less than he gets staying home. . Edited January 3, 2014 by overandunder2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 The answer of course is education of the correct type.... When I was a youngster most Uni scholars came from 'wealthy' families who could afford to support their offspring. It was part of the right of passage of the upper social classes, and as such differentiated them from the lower echelons who at best went to a technical college etc. Then came along the political scam to vastly increase the numbers going to Uni as a means of reducing the unemployment numbers......... Nowadays if you don't go to Uni then you are seen to be underprivileged as missing out on the 'experience' of going to Uni - all part of the similar 'experience' of taking out a gap year to see the world.... Having a huge debt to pay off at the end of the Uni experience is somehow seen to be acceptable, even if you don't have a job at the end of it. As the comedy show said - at least you have an 'ology', which is something to be admired, somehow. Along with the vogue of going to Uni was the decline in apprenticeships. "Why, you don't a job that dirties your hands, do you?" I did all right in not going to Uni, and most of my classmates did too. Sums it up very nicely, I'd hazard a guess that you were a youngsta at around the same time I was, we still had a manufacturing base to be able to offer apprenticeships but alas even if employers wanted to plough through the mire of red tape to take them on these days the same sort of companies just don't exist. Back then people could progress through a career from an apprenticeship depending on their aptitude to do different things. In my case I started as an apprentice toolmaker, went on to work in the drawing office, eventually doing tool designs. That gave me the experience to go and work for another company as the toolmaker/designer then on to a further company as senior mechanical design engineer. From the experience gained along the way I was able to set up on my own and have worked in my own businesses for the past 20 years. It required a chance to start out, the availability of other jobs of a similar nature, an economy where manufacturing and innovation still rated highly and the self motivation to want to better myself. I don't recall nearly 1/3 of the school leavers considering suicide as the way forward, they all got jobs or went to Uni. The situation is very different now unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) end of the day torys sold all the industries off (invested the cash) so apprenticeships wont be happening again because we make sweet fa and as henry d said the only reason we have farming is cheap labor. how the rest of the world must have laughed a country that sells off all its industries becomes very unimportant very quickly which is why we dont get taken very seriously as a world leader any more and we have the unemployment problems we have. when i was young you could go from job to job no problem there were industrial estates even the poorly qualified could find work, you really were only out of work if you didnt want a job, the industrial estates are probably pcworld and pizza hut now or a park and ride or even polish car cleaners anything but a factory the other nail in the coffin of the industrial estate was employment legislation risky thing having employees these days i bet theres people out there who have sued every boss they had in my day your last words to your ex boss wouldnt have been "see you in court" maybe the romainians and bulgarians wont bother coming unless they want to pick apples or wash cars wish we could wind the clock back 30 years and start again Edited January 3, 2014 by overandunder2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 end of the day torys sold all the industries off (invested the cash) so apprenticeships wont be happening again because we make sweet fa and as henry d said the only reason we have farming is cheap labor. how the rest of the world must have laughed a country that sells off all its industries becomes very unimportant very quickly which is why we dont get taken very seriously as a world leader any more and we have the unemployment problems we have It was the small to medium sized privately owned businesses that took on lots of the apprentices mate, the Tories didn't sell them off. There seemed to be a general view that everything would be done by computers so people started to move away from the more hands on sort of practical jobs, some went on to learn about NC machining but the colleges of further education started to dwindle and it was all downhill from there. This is just my own observation of what happened, having viewed it first hand at the time and been very concerned about it right back then. As far as selling things off, despite being a "capitalist" for want of a better term, I always thought selling off our utilities was a bad move. Look where it has got us now with no British owned water or power companies. Pretty dodgy position to be in IMVHO as these are crucial to our everyday existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 OK, so far there has been Catweazle`s interesting survey from independent researchers in the FT, but nothing other than local conjecture from those that are detractors to the point of view given that the net figures from immigrants put the UK in the black. If someone has the figures or a link and not just "This is what I see in my neighbourhood!" can they please post it as otherwise it is not worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 You, like me, are very fortunate to be able to move away from it. Many people can't. from Auntie. This is the best quote ever by the way. On a topic about immigration it is OK for you to move away from "it" but for those from an impoverished country they must not...beggars belief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mag357 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 we have had them working in the many many hand car washes in the town hard-workers true but with a huge turn over of labour new faces seen week in week out and where did the earnings go? , difference now is they can work for cherry-bobs and receive housing benefit and tax credits,so we will literally be paying them to stay here whilst their wage is shipped off to benefit their own country, so just how does that benefit our economy , all it does is ensure that our own hordes of ill educated and unskilled youth are pushed further down the low paid unskilled labour market with no chance of getting out of it. KW Atta boy Kdubya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) It was the small to medium sized privately owned businesses that took on lots of the apprentices mate, the Tories didn't sell them off. There seemed to be a general view that everything would be done by computers so people started to move away from the more hands on sort of practical jobs, some went on to learn about NC machining but the colleges of further education started to dwindle and it was all downhill from there. This is just my own observation of what happened, having viewed it first hand at the time and been very concerned about it right back then. As far as selling things off, despite being a "capitalist" for want of a better term, I always thought selling off our utilities was a bad move. Look where it has got us now with no British owned water or power companies. Pretty dodgy position to be in IMVHO as these are crucial to our everyday existence. I think that reason that people stopped going in to industry and went to collage instead was in the eighties lots of people who had spent years learning a trade just got put on the scrap pile why learn a trade that restricts you to one type of work in a changing world when you can go to collage get a degree in flower arranging and then get a good office job Edited January 3, 2014 by four-wheel-drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashman Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Oh, look - an article proving the point, "lies, damned lies and statistics." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2532975/Skewed-figures-BBC-agenda-How-questions-asked-immigration-reform.html You can dismiss this as typical Daily Mail fare, but you can also read about similar reports on http://www.migrationwatchuk.co.uk/. To those who don't believe there is a considerable influx of migration, I suggest you visit London, which I think you will all agree is not simply a "neighbourhood." Perhaps those living in underpopulated dumps that can't attract even the most desperate new-comers should hold fire on commenting on how areas such as London are being swamped under a deluge of beggars, wasters and crime. In the past, the biggest problem was negotiating the hurdle of a drunken Scotsman on the way to the office in the morning, now it's crime families on the trawl in the West End. I loved Pippa Roe's quote about them crapping on doorsteps as a snapshot of Westminster council's problems, for example. Are these the "highly qualified" migrants we were expecting..? Edited January 3, 2014 by Flashman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88b Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 As Flashman says we were in London on Sunday evening to visit Hyde Park Winter Wonderland, which should be renamed Eastern Europe / Asia wonderland, It was hard to hear any English spoken , the entire evening revolved around people trying to push in or shoving pushchairs into your ankles. I had two "young ladies" barge into me and felt a hand in my coat pocket, she was elbowed to the ground. We asked one of the security people for directions while he was telling the crowds to keep to their left, I pointed out most of them don't speak English he just laughed and said no but a lot of them know how to pick pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) This is the best quote ever by the way. On a topic about immigration it is OK for you to move away from "it" but for those from an impoverished country they must not...beggars belief! Not quite the intent and you know don't ya! difference is how you get in and how you actually qualify to get in,take Australia for instance, you want to live there and be part of their society great they will welcome you BUT you need to qualify, via sponsorship company or family, you must pay medicare up front about £30 k per person so husband and wife need to find £60k between them before they can even step off the plane, they need to have employment guaranteed up front or provide proof that they can afford to live without help from the state till they find it, and it has to be a skill such as trade or a specific need of the employment market. Now if we did that I would have no prob whatsoever.What I do have a problem with is unfettered immigration of non skilled non conforming immigrants who want to simply rape the country either by them earning relatively high wages (to them) or scamming, pickpocketing,people trafficking and exploitation of their own etc etc and then clear off to live in relative comfort back home. Or as with the Asian rather than east European immigrants who actually want to stay but in doing so rather than work use our benefit system to support their attempts to turn MY country into a version of the the hell hole they came from. People are at last starting to wake up to what is happening,and our political elite are starting to wake up to the fact that we are on to their little game of electoral manipulation via immigration, along with the other main reason they are allowed to flood in IE WAGE RESTRAINT for the supportive employers party coffer contributing lobbyists, and the fact that our youth are pushed so far down the ladder they have had to dig a hole to stick their heads out. KW Edited January 3, 2014 by kdubya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistedsanity Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 If the government ensured that the minimum wage was a living wage we wouldn't need so many immigrants to do the jobe that the Brits won't do, it would also stop all the big companies who pay minimum wage from overloading the benefits system by paying a pittance so that their employees are reliant on benefits to top up their wage to a living one , the only people who would suffer are the shareholders who have stakes in all the minimum wage paying companies . Every single company in this country that pays minimum wage is a huge drain on the taxpayer and makes the financial impact caused by any immigrants insignificant by comparison. Amazon pays minimum wage and just received massive undisclosed subsidies from the government to build their industrial estate sized complex by Hemel Hempstead on the promise of job creation , yet the operate from Luxembourg to avoid paying corporation tax , bring just enough money into the country to pay their bills , ensure that virtually every employee they have is also reliant on state benefits by paying the government allocated minimum wage , the company is worth a fortune but actually takes more money from the taxpayers annually than they pay back ! Not to mention the 4. Something billion pounds the government have just given to a transcontinental oil company to build several new rigs , there is a massive hidden welfare state going on in this country that your government dare not speak of and keeps very well hidden from public view whilst they use propoganda to convince us that the sick, unemployed and immigrants are the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigadam Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Before I get anymore I do apologise I was taking the Micky in my previous post and I am naughty and should not do that sort of thing my apologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old rooster Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Not quite the intent and you know don't ya! difference is how you get in and how you actually qualify to get in,take Australia for instance, you want to live there and be part of their society great they will welcome you BUT you need to qualify, via sponsorship company or family, you must pay medicare up front about £30 k per person so husband and wife need to find £60k between them before they can even step off the plane, they need to have employment guaranteed up front or provide proof that they can afford to live without help from the state till they find it, and it has to be a skill such as trade or a specific need of the employment market. Now if we did that I would have no prob whatsoever.What I do have a problem with is unfettered immigration of non skilled non conforming immigrants who want to simply rape the country either by them earning relatively high wages (to them) or scamming, pickpocketing,people trafficking and exploitation of their own etc etc and then clear off to live in relative comfort back home. Or as with the Asian rather than east European immigrants who actually want to stay but in doing so rather than work use our benefit system to support their attempts to turn MY country into a version of the the hell hole they came from. People are at last starting to wake up to what is happening,and our political elite are starting to wake up to the fact that we are on to their little game of electoral manipulation via immigration, along with the other main reason they are allowed to flood in IE WAGE RESTRAINT for the supportive employers party coffer contributing lobbyists, and the fact that our youth are pushed so far down the ladder they have had to dig a hole to stick their heads out. KW Pretty much sums it up and I guess anybody incapable of understanding that is part of the overall problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 We have a winner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Worst post I've read on PW. oh i dont know we have had some peaches i often wonder what non members looking at these threads think, nobody wants the country invaded but some of the offered solutions are at the very least suspect Edited January 3, 2014 by overandunder2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 OK, so far there has been Catweazle`s interesting survey from independent researchers in the FT, but nothing other than local conjecture from those that are detractors to the point of view given that the net figures from immigrants put the UK in the black. If someone has the figures or a link and not just "This is what I see in my neighbourhood!" can they please post it as otherwise it is not worth the effort. Henry, I think it's you who has it the wrong way round in this instance. I can't access the FT survey as I'm not willing to sign up. Perhaps you could tell us who the independent researchers are? Somebody will be paying them for their research...no such thing as independent. The 'This is what I see in my neighbourhood' scenario is, in fact, the whole reason this debate has opened up on such a level. It can't be hidden anymore, the government can't use statistics to hoodwink the public anymore. The public can see exactly what's happening on each and every High Street in each and every major town and city across the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootnfish Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Surely that what matters what people are seeing in every day life not statistics made up by god knows who . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Surely that what matters what people are seeing in every day life not statistics made up by god knows who . he has got a point but this doesn't just apply to immigration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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