woody801 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 How do I go about testing the power of my gun? I've got an AA S410. Took it out lamping last night and it seem to be quite down on power. I'd like to get it as close to the 12lb mark as possible but have no idea where to start. This is my 1st PCP rifle so its all new to me. Thanks Woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingit Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Best option for you is to take it to your local gun shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theskyfox Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Hi, You need a device called a Chronograph. A popular one is the Combro cb-625, and is available for around £50. Without testing it on a chronograph it is very difficult to tell whether or not you are underpowered as you cannot rely on simply the sound or apparent accuracy levels. Its usually worth getting a chronograph just to make sure you stay legal and work out how to get the best out of your gun. In terms of taking up the power, its not really a DIY thing, and by the sounds of it the gun probably needs a service anyway. Take it to your local gunshop who can check the power, replace any seals and tune it for you to get the best out of it. The average cost of servicing seems to vary between £70-250 depending on the manufacturer, gun type, complexity and work undertaken. -Andrew Edited February 11, 2014 by Theskyfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) The first thing to do is to check the power. You need a chronograph to do this. there are several different types all with positives and negatives but the most popular one for airgunners is the Combro mk4. You can pick these up for £35-40 second hand. they attach to the end of the barrel and measure in ft/lbs. once you've done that, you're in a better position to know how much needs doing. Is your gun a .22 or .177? when it comes to altering the power, remember that a gun is deemed illegal if it has the potential to break the 12 ft/lb. if you set it at 11.8 with AA diabolo field, you will be well over 12 ft/lb with Bisley magnums and they can be checked with any wait of pellet PC plod deems acceptable. It's better to set it same than be VERY sorry. a rabbit isn't going to notice the difference between 11.4 and 12.1. The Police will. if you don't have a chrono, and don't want to buy one, as swingit says, your local rfd will be able to do it for you. The problems with that is a) if you're wrong and it's over powered, they can't give it back to you without them doing the work to get it below 12ft/lb - expensive and b ) if it's under-powered as you suspect, you still can't change anything on the gun, as you should NEVER change the power of a gun without having a chrono there to check the power as you work on it. I'd get a chrono (they're useful things to have anyway) and then you can tell if there really is a problem, then as theskyfox says, get it serviced by someone who knows what they're doing! Edited February 11, 2014 by chrisjpainter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 How do I go about testing the power of my gun? I've got an AA S410. Took it out lamping last night and it seem to be quite down on power. I'd like to get it as close to the 12lb mark as possible but have no idea where to start. This is my 1st PCP rifle so its all new to me. Thanks Woody Either consider about investing in the CB625 (it can be a bit of a faff about, but you will get the hang of it) or hope someone close to you has a chrono and offers to help. IF you are confident it is LOW and definitely not high, then have a word with a local RFD, quite often they will check it for you FOC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT SEARCHER Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) If you have filled it to 200 bar it might be out of it`s power range. I have a Logun pro that says fill to 200 bar. On the side of it. If i fill it to 200 bar the power is right down to 6 ftlb . It`s best power is from 170 bar down to 90 bar around 10.5 ftlb. At 150 Bar 11.7 ftlb If a Rifle is not fitted with a regulator. PCP Rifles have a power curve without a regulator . You can always use the old phone book test or the Argos Catalogue test. See how many pages the pellets get to. The Crombo Chrono MK4 are excellent. Edited February 11, 2014 by NIGHT SEARCHER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 As said above make sure you're not over filling the rifle (180 bar wouod be my limit) and go to your local rfd. As also said above, don't try to get it to as near as 12 ft/lb as you can as this could cause you to go over with some pellets. I have mine at 11.3 which is more than enough for air rifle quarry and will keep me legal, plus it will give me slightly more shots per fill. PCPs can be deceptively powerful, if you are only used to spring rifles, as they are quiet and have no recoil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolkgoose Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 As said above make sure you're not over filling the rifle (180 bar wouod be my limit) and go to your local rfd. As also said above, don't try to get it to as near as 12 ft/lb as you can as this could cause you to go over with some pellets. I have mine at 11.3 which is more than enough for air rifle quarry and will keep me legal, plus it will give me slightly more shots per fill. PCPs can be deceptively powerful, if you are only used to spring rifles, as they are quiet and have no recoil. + 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael170874 Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Hi, You need a device called a Chronograph. A popular one is the Combro cb-625, and is available for around £50. Without testing it on a chronograph it is very difficult to tell whether or not you are underpowered as you cannot rely on simply the sound or apparent accuracy levels. Its usually worth getting a chronograph just to make sure you stay legal and work out how to get the best out of your gun. In terms of taking up the power, its not really a DIY thing, and by the sounds of it the gun probably needs a service anyway. Take it to your local gunshop who can check the power, replace any seals and tune it for you to get the best out of it. The average cost of servicing seems to vary between £70-250 depending on the manufacturer, gun type, complexity and work undertaken. Where you getting yours serviced £250 lol they saw you coming if you paid that ah -Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Hi, You need a device called a Chronograph. A popular one is the Combro cb-625, and is available for around £50. Without testing it on a chronograph it is very difficult to tell whether or not you are underpowered as you cannot rely on simply the sound or apparent accuracy levels. Its usually worth getting a chronograph just to make sure you stay legal and work out how to get the best out of your gun. In terms of taking up the power, its not really a DIY thing, and by the sounds of it the gun probably needs a service anyway. Take it to your local gunshop who can check the power, replace any seals and tune it for you to get the best out of it. The average cost of servicing seems to vary between £70-250 depending on the manufacturer, gun type, complexity and work undertaken. Where you getting yours serviced £250 lol they saw you coming if you paid that ah -Andrew You say that Michael, but a service at Daystate is £185-220 on their regulated guns. That's just the basic service. If anything's wrong with it, it's £67 p/h. Theskyfox isn't really off the mark with that figure if you think about it with those rates... http://www.daystate.com/service-repair.htm Edited February 12, 2014 by chrisjpainter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHT SEARCHER Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I called in there with my Daystate Huntsman FTR with a leaking seal ( O ring ) They said it will need a service and a new O ring app £185, **** that. They sold me the O ring for £12 rip off. It took me less than an hour to fit it. Sorted. I think the previous owner filled it with a pump has it was full of **** and moisture. Daystate Rifles are very good. But the price of them and there servicing charges are becoming ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theskyfox Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I've had a number of rifles serviced over the last few years. I had a Brocock Enigma for a while, and it suddenly dropped in power to just 8Ftlbs! I had to send it off for a new set of seals and service and the bill came in at roughly £200 + PnP. I've also had a Weihrauch sent for repair/service/tune and that cost the best part of £100. To get a BTAS regulator fitted to a gun costs around £285 - with most of that cost being the regulator itself. If you have a regulated gun (Hw100?, Some FX guns, Steyrs? etc) that needs a new regulator and service..then I can easily see the bill hitting £250. -Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 If you want to service / tune / adjust etc yourself then I've some instructions for S400 / S410 from about 2006 (when I bought mine) if you want them. They're word docs with photo's. PM me you email address. May take a day or two as I'm of to Cologne until next Thursday. But do take heed of previous advice about Chrono's and power testing as it's an offence to have an air rifle over 12 ft lbs without an FAC. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 You say that Michael, but a service at Daystate is £185-220 on their regulated guns. That's just the basic service. If anything's wrong with it, it's £67 p/h. Theskyfox isn't really off the mark with that figure if you think about it with those rates... http://www.daystate.com/service-repair.htm After reading that I'm definitely sticking with the rapid. So simple to work on. Was thinking about a daystate, not any more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Its not the first time such comments are made after a night lamping. Often as not the OP has seen the pellet curve in out out with the wind, that's not uncommon at two to three times the 12 ft lb limit though its traveling quite slow and has great backlighting in a sea of black. Or they find its not that easy to hit them right were it matters in a muddy, windy field in the middle of the night and gets a few wounders and misses and blame the energy as not being sufficient wollop (indeed its marginal in such a firearm though fit for purpose if accuracy is good) reduce your range and practice more is the best advice. If none of this is the case just get the gun choreographed to put you mind straight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody801 Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Thanks for all the replies guys. I'll look into getting a choreograph. I understand all the advice about getting the gun serviced by my local dealer. Unfortunately he sends them away to get the once over adding to the cost. Seen as I paid £450 for the gun I really can't justify spending £200-£300 getting it looked at. Bobba that would be great thanks, I'll Pm you. When I bought the gun I was told not to pump it up to more than 180 bar so that's what I've done. Think it says its a Max of 210 bar. We had a few shots so the pressure dropped and the power didn't seem to change. Kent, all valid points. We always check the accuracy before we start using a cardboard box. There wasn't a breath of wind so thats not a factor, we were shooting at a caravan site so you can just drive round shooting out of the car. So we had decent rests and never shoot at a rabbit more than 30 yards. The main reason of my thinking the power had dropped is because we were hitting rabbits in the head at as little as 15 yards and they needed a second shot, sometimes a 3rd. Where as previous trips we haven't needed to even out to 30 yards. If this happened once or twice then fair enough but it was a recurring theme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Still get the power checked but it sounds like an accuracy issue to me (hold-over, hold-under or shifting zero?) as even at low power if you hit a rabbit in the right place it will kill it. Head shots aren't good enough, brain shots are what is needed with air rifles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody801 Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Falcon, we normally aim for the eye. Even when the pellet went right through the eye some of them needed shooting again. Should we be aiming further back/higher? We use the same method with a rapid 7 (non FAC) and that seems to do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Normal aim point is behind the eye, in the gap between eye and ear hole is ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody801 Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'll have a go at that. Thanks for the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 you know, many years ago someone wrote in the AGW comic that it took 3ft lb to kill an adult rabbit. Heck, I don't know how he found that out - suspect it just sounded good! in my experience ( I have shot bunnies with airgun for about 30 yrs, biggest bag was lamping on the night of the big storm of 87?) 12 ft/lb is marginal and not only needs great placement it also takes a bit of luck as stuff can and does go wrong, young rabbits also I find often get wounded by brain shots as the scull is soft you get no secondary wound track from splintered scull, so I now select a hear lung shot on those little ones if I must shoot or a different tool in the first place- wonder what AGW might say on that one! That said you can wound anything with practically any firearm, I have wounded rabbits by removing the lower sections of their heads with magnum rim fires and 700 ft/lb centre fires even, its not death by lethal injection (which can also go wrong I am told). As you were shooting from a car at short range I put forwards the adrenalin was also pumping in those bunnies when shot and this makes a tremendous difference as regards reaction to shot, that said had you been out with a moderated .410 or .22 lr used at similar ranges I doubt you should have such an off day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody801 Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Thanks for the input kent. Its interesting reading about your experiences. The adrenaline thing is a very good point, one that I hadn't thought about. After being shot they didn't move s far. I actually put a second shot into a young rabbit from about 5 foot away and that still didn't finish it off. Also I've seen a few foxes shot with a 22.250 that have managed to run on for 100yards or so and on inspection the shot placement has been good. Thinking back these have always been the more skittish ones. So the adrenaline must have been pumping before they were shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) After reading that I'm definitely sticking with the rapid. So simple to work on. Was thinking about a daystate, not any more... Don't be put off by the servicing charges. I agree, they seem very high. On the basis they charge £67 quid an hour, I cannot for the life of me understand how it would take 3+ hours to service the rifle. I personally don't see their charges are in anyway reasonable or justifiable I have done quite a few s410's in around an hour, my hw100 takes a little longer to reset the regulator to the correct ft/lbs, and that's all seals done, cleaned, and lubricated where necessary. The Daystates are sexy, accurate and beautifully made and mine will go with me to the grave. However, I don't see that they are any different from another rifle in that its very basic mechanics. I certainly won't be getting my Airwolf "serviced" at Daystate, especially after being smashed about in transit due to their sloppy packaging last time it went back. At marginally more than a 10k service will cost on my partners BMW tomorrow, I think the phrase is, they're 'aving a laugh Edited February 12, 2014 by turbo33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Don't be put off by the servicing charges. I agree, they seem very high. On the basis they charge £67 quid an hour, I cannot for the life of me understand how it would take 3+ hours to service the rifle. I personally don't see their charges are in anyway reasonable or justifiable I have done quite a few s410's in around an hour, my hw100 takes a little longer to reset the regulator to the correct ft/lbs, and that's all seals done, cleaned, and lubricated where necessary. The Daystates are sexy, accurate and beautifully made and mine will go with me to the grave. However, I don't see that they are any different from another rifle in that its very basic mechanics. I certainly won't be getting my Airwolf "serviced" at Daystate, especially after being smashed about in transit due to their sloppy packaging last time it went back. At marginally more than a 10k service will cost on my partners BMW tomorrow, I think the phrase is, they're 'aving a laugh The thing is, with daystates, can you get them apart to service them without the special tool? As I understand it, both the fasteners and the tool to fit them are exclusive to daystate as an anti tamper device. I could be wrong, and if I am I might consider one. If I'm right though, I won't be buying a daystate, which is a shame, as I do like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo33 Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) The thing is, with daystates, can you get them apart to service them without the special tool? As I understand it, both the fasteners and the tool to fit them are exclusive to daystate as an anti tamper device. I could be wrong, and if I am I might consider one. If I'm right though, I won't be buying a daystate, which is a shame, as I do like them. That's always possible, although I've not seen/heard that. There's usually a way round "special" tools And if there isn't a way, more fool Daystate. Although I personally don't like Rapids, based on my bad experience, they have a very good following. The ability for the user to do his/her own maintenance is an obvious reflection in their popularity and therefore level of sales. Its one of the reasons springers are still massively popular So Daystate, take heed, if your rifles are so designed that only you can service them, not only have you lost the service fee, you have lost a customer with Rimfireboy and possibly a lot more potential customers Edited February 12, 2014 by turbo33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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