bostonmick Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 The FEO said "returned" not refused........... well it seems a bit silly to lose the certificate and have to go through it all again.it seems that he wants the fight more than the cert.but then that is up to him.i remember when my grandson was waiting for his took six months he would have walked over hot coals to get it all he wanted was to shoot.each to their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 If I buy him a cabinet can we stop this thread? I can't stop checking it and nothing's actually changed since page one except I've got older and some brain cells are no longer with me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 If I buy him a cabinet can we stop this thread? I can't stop checking it and nothing's actually changed since page one except I've got older and some brain cells are no longer with meLolI know you feel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning 425 clay hunter Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Why don't we have a PW whip round for him. He could pick up a brattonsound st3 for £60. 60 members donate a quid and he doesn't have to fight the system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Why don't we have a PW whip round for him. He could pick up a brattonsound st3 for £60. 60 members donate a quid and he doesn't have to fight the system I get the impression he might be called Victor Meldrew and likes the fight, I myself "don't believe it" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Yawn, I'm in for a £1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Yawn, I'm in for a £1. Me too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 No I do not forget anything.i said how the sequence of events went you wish to argue what you do not know about that is fine. The conversation with the fao did not take place at my home it was at a shoot and in general conversation about guns that is what he said Sorry if it may offend you but you now know I shoot with them sometimes. as do many others I know and we are all capable of having a conversation.you should try it sometime.atb I have 2 firearms officer and a Met Dog Handler in my Rifle club, one of my best shooting buddies is also a FEO. You waffle for England, I make no assumptions, you contradict yourself from post to post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubris Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 I may be sticking my head above the parapet here but.... If your friend has had the call to say that your certificate has been aproved then I would assume that the cert is in the post. I doubt the firearms team are in the habit of just calling people to tease them a little, as it would be more hassle then it's worth for them. As there is no requirement for anyone to own a cabinet but simply to ensure 'secure storage' if they are in posesion of a gun then the team may have strongly suggested that a cabinet is fitted if he is going to borrow your gun. This does not make it a requirement. Your friend merely needs to be able to show that he has considered what to do in the slight eventuality that he cannot return the gun to you. The model answer would be to leave it with an RFD for the night, so if he is clay busting then there may well be one on site, some charge but some will hold it for free if you've shot that day. Find out, atleast you've considered it then. Bit of a case of do as I say and not as I do.... but for the benefit of the firearms team I would give the model answer. Might be worth reading in to how some of the experienced shots on here (strip down and) secure their guns when they are travelling and find no safe in there chosen accomodation. Of course if he finds himself doing this more then once in every blue moon or that he actually finds himself in a position to buy a gun then I would have to support the 'buy a cabinet' vote. Hubris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) I may be sticking my head above the parapet here but.... If your friend has had the call to say that your certificate has been aproved then I would assume that the cert is in the post. I doubt the firearms team are in the habit of just calling people to tease them a little, as it would be more hassle then it's worth for them. As there is no requirement for anyone to own a cabinet but simply to ensure 'secure storage' if they are in posesion of a gun then the team may have strongly suggested that a cabinet is fitted if he is going to borrow your gun. This does not make it a requirement. Your friend merely needs to be able to show that he has considered what to do in the slight eventuality that he cannot return the gun to you. The model answer would be to leave it with an RFD for the night, so if he is clay busting then there may well be one on site, some charge but some will hold it for free if you've shot that day. Find out, atleast you've considered it then. Bit of a case of do as I say and not as I do.... but for the benefit of the firearms team I would give the model answer. Might be worth reading in to how some of the experienced shots on here (strip down and) secure their guns when they are travelling and find no safe in there chosen accomodation. Of course if he finds himself doing this more then once in every blue moon or that he actually finds himself in a position to buy a gun then I would have to support the 'buy a cabinet' vote. Hubris. Thank you for the post, the call to paraphrase was "your certificate has been approved but we need to check your cabinet" he wrote on the application where it asks about storage that he wasn't fitting one and at interview re iterated the fact and the reasons why. He is full versed in how to to transport a gun securely and what to do if staying away from home with a firearm (having been a club target shooter for years some years ago). I think he just needs to reiterate his understanding of the duty and the guidance as published. Like I said FEO said it was a "managers concern" . I agree that if it were to be regular situation (borrowing over night) a cabinet would be sensible and required if a gun was to be stored at his home. Edited February 27, 2014 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubris Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Sounds like we are singing off the same song sheet. I was also suggesting that untill he got his cabinet, the meassures he would use when staying away would also be acceptable in his own home as long as he only needed to use them occasionally. Although this should be acceptable with the firearms team, it's probably one of those can of worms conversations that is best avoided incase they get the wrong end of the stick and think it is his intention to implement this as a regular or permanent solution! Best to leave it as 'when I am in a position to buy a gun, I will fit a safe before I bring it home'. Good luck guiding him through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) I have 2 firearms officer and a Met Dog Handler in my Rifle club, one of my best shooting buddies is also a FEO. You waffle for England, I make no assumptions, you contradict yourself from post to post! so your back from yet another mission at some top secret hush hush multi billion pound installation.what was it this time starlings on the space shuttle. I would say that most people shoot at the same venue as fao's and various other members of our law enforcement agencies.i do from time to time the police shoot at grimsthorpe is one.and as normal people we all chat but I can't and do not claim any of them as my bestest buddies.i would imagine they are extremely gratefull to have you in their company.well I am off out for a little while nothing to exciting just give the dogs a run.and maybe have a shot or two at pigeons.have a nice day.atb ;):) edit as I forgot the silly faces. Edited February 28, 2014 by bostonmick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Sounds like we are singing off the same song sheet. I was also suggesting that untill he got his cabinet, the meassures he would use when staying away would also be acceptable in his own home as long as he only needed to use them occasionally. That would seem sensible and appropriate. Although this should be acceptable with the firearms team, it's probably one of those can of worms conversations that is best avoided incase they get the wrong end of the stick and think it is his intention to implement this as a regular or permanent solution! Best to leave it as 'when I am in a position to buy a gun, I will fit a safe before I bring it home'. Good luck guiding him through. Can of worms indeed I have suggested he needs to write to the liscencing manager and outline this but without suggesting something they may object to, I am surprised by some of the comments from others I thought having an SGC without a cabinet while unusual was fairly common I certainly know people who have been in this situation before and was not an issue for FEO they have since gone on to fit cabinets before buying a gun. Edited February 28, 2014 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning 425 clay hunter Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 HDAV, I think you're missing the point some of us are trying to make, not one of us has said it is law to have a cabinet, just if he really wants his licence it's a very small hoop to jump through to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 HDAV, I think you're missing the point some of us are trying to make, not one of us has said it is law to have a cabinet, just if he really wants his licence it's a very small hoop to jump through to get it. While I agree it may appear be a small hoop the fact is he would prefer not to have to fit a cabinet unnecessarily and it isn't a requirement. At the end of the day it's his choice I can only advise on what I believe to be the law and various options. Which is what I was hoping for here (clarification of the above) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Johnathan L. is dead, long live Johnathan L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 While I agree it may appear be a small hoop the fact is he would prefer not to have to fit a cabinet unnecessarily and it isn't a requirement. At the end of the day it's his choice I can only advise on what I believe to be the law and various options. Which is what I was hoping for here (clarification of the above) Perhaps he used the wrong word when he said "borrow" a shotgun, borrow may give the impression that he may be keeping possession for 48 hours. It may be prudent for him to say he will be using a third party's shotgun whilst out with the owner for a day's shooting. This happens quite a bit here with visiting guns who are licensed, for obvious reasons, but do not wish to own their own gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Whatever, HDAV, CharlieT, etc etc make salient points! At the end of the day this is not going to be solved here. If the OP thinks this is O.o.O. stand up to the region and put your case! ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Personal opinion if your freind really wants to shoot and is really interested why doesn't he want a gun he obviously has not got the bug so to speak, I find it hard to believe someone loves to shoot clays game or whatever and can't be bothered to get or want there own gun. Bit like passing your driving test and hiring a car twice a month. The possession of a gun is not the issue here. The relevant fact remains, he does NOT require a cabinet to 'store' his certificate in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I agree delburt0 and I can see the FEO's point of view here. At the end of the day the FEO just wants to make sure the guy can store a gun safely when he'll be licensed to own one, that's hardly unreasonable. Cabinets cost less than a thousand carts these days, so if that's a deal breaker then he probably shouldn't be applying given the ongoing costs of clay shooting. It merely requires a note on the file regarding the lack of security. Both buyer and seller of a shotgun are required to notify their relevant Forces of the transaction. THAT is the time the security becomes an issue. I can recall a very good Friend who was an Assistant Governor at the local prison. He decided to make a stand with the Police regarding his shotgun certificate. When the FEO called, a Police Officer back then, he was invited in. When he asked to see the security, this was refused. When asked where he intended to use his shotgun, this information was also refused. The Officer warned the applicant that his certificate was likely to be refused. The applicant replied with "show me where it states in the Firearms Act where you need to check my security or that I am obliged to tell where I intend to use my guns and I will comply". His certificate was renewed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I've had a good day today at work ill stick £5 in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Prawn Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 So, what about these floods then eh?................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 So, what about these floods then eh?................ At least they didn't get into his cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 So, what about these floods then eh?................ Well I want all this water I just dont want the floods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Poon Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Jeeeeesssuuus is this topic still going, 8 pages long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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