Scottish Independence

[Gunman]

Question no one has answered to my knowledge is what happens to Scots nationals living in England/Wales if Scotland votes for independence ?

Do we come to some agreement as to free movement of people ,assuming that Scotland will be out side the EU as seems likely [lucky them]?

Will they need passports and work permits ?

Would they have the choice to become English/Welsh citizens ?

If they remain Scottish who will be responsible for their pensions etc. ?

These questions arise from conversations with my nieces husband , a fervent "Scottish" Scot now permanently residing in England .

Edited April 6, 2014 by Gunman

[clakk]

he sounds like that ardent scottish nationalist billy connelly who is proud to be scottish but lives in L.A.or ex James Bond Shaun living in spain .cant be that good if u dont actually want to live there despite your nationalist attitude can it

[Gimlet]

To be fair, last I heard Billy Connelly considered himself Scottish and British and was in favour of the Union.

None of the big questions have been answered or even thought through. You'd have thought that a country contemplating leaving a political union lasting three centuries would have worked out the details and presented voters a list of options well in advance of the vote. But no. Apparently the way to do these things is to make it up as you go along with only months to go to the referendum. The whole thing is a farce and in my opinion a wasted opportunity for Scots and for Britain as a whole.

[islandgun]

To be fair, last I heard Billy Connelly considered himself Scottish and British and was in favour of the Union.

None of the big questions have been answered or even thought through. You'd have thought that a country contemplating leaving a political union lasting three centuries would have worked out the details and presented voters a list of options well in advance of the vote. But no. Apparently the way to do these things is to make it up as you go along with only months to go to the referendum. The whole thing is a farce and in my opinion a wasted opportunity for Scots and for Britain as a whole.

Here, Here,

[novice cushie shooter]

To be fair, last I heard Billy Connelly considered himself Scottish and British and was in favour of the Union.

None of the big questions have been answered or even thought through. You'd have thought that a country contemplating leaving a political union lasting three centuries would have worked out the details and presented voters a list of options well in advance of the vote. But no. Apparently the way to do these things is to make it up as you go along with only months to go to the referendum. The whole thing is a farce and in my opinion a wasted opportunity for Scots and for Britain as a whole.

salmond is trying to "wing it" imo. Its also a lot of wasted money!

[clakk]

most of my family are proud to be scottish but dont want to break up the union .it seems to be a minority of nuts called msp,s lead by king alex and his cronies.he doesnt want union ,but wants the pound,he doesnt want britain but wants the EU who dont want him and have publicly stated Scotland wouldnt get EU status.some big employers have already stated go independent and were off taking jobs and taxes with us.also no mention of how he,s gonna pay for free prescriptions ,tuition fee,s and defence without the uk stipend.or for that matter who,s going to pay the wage and expenses bill for the scottish parliment .methinks the tit thought it was a surething vote winner without looking at the practical side

[poontang]

I can't understand why Salmond would want to leave a political and fiscal union with the UK, only to want to try and join a similar union with the EU?

Seems a bit bizarre to me...unless the troughs are deeper in Brussels.

[Gimlet]

I can't understand why Salmond would want to leave a political and fiscal union with the UK, only to want to try and join a similar union with the EU?

Seems a bit bizarre to me...unless the troughs are deeper in Brussels.

 

 

Nor me.

If he doesn't like union with England and feels Scotland is the injured party in a failed marriage, I struggle to understand how sinking without trace as an insignificant speck in the EU ocean is going to improve things.

I could understand entirely if he wanted full independence outside the EU as a member of EFTA (which is what I believe the whole of the UK should be going for) alongside Norway and Switzerland; had costed and scheduled the transition, drafted a constitution in consultation with the Scottish people and personally informed the Monarch of his proposals in personal meetings, held talks with all the major Westminster parties to seek consensus on all the big strategic questions including defence, held meetings with the heads of NATO, produced and published a full audit of Scotland's existing and projected GDP and existing and projected public spending commitments, drawn up a currency proposal in consultation with the IMF, produced and published a full legislative blue print, held meetings with UK business leaders and foreign companies with capital investment in Scotland and published detailed taxation proposals - before getting elected as First Minister. And then invited the people of Scotland to vote on his proposition. That I could understand.

 

Now I don't live in Scotland, so of course I don't know, but I suspect Mr Salmond hasn't done that.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Gimlet

[peck]

I don't think people are called Scots national, i think on your passport it says British. I suppose if you have not got a permanent address in Scotland you will not be able to vote so it does not concern them.

[saddler]

 

 

Nor me.

...he doesn't like union with England and feels Scotland is the injured party in a failed marriage

 

Aye

 

The MARRIAGE that was forced on the English by a SCOTTISH KING - James IV of Scotland, also known as James I of England

 

BUT - WHY would King 'Eck let the facts spoil his rhetoric and ranting?

 

He'd have been better placed IN the court of King James - they knew where THEIR court jesters stood in the pecking order; different times see the court jester trying to wear the crown!

[AULD YIN]

JEEZE not again ,,,its not just ENGLAND he wants to leave its the union ...wales and Norn ireland as well

 

johnnie

and by the way the guys name is Thomas Sean connery with a sir at the front.

Edited April 7, 2014 by AULD YIN

[byjovecarruthers]

Aye

 

The MARRIAGE that was forced on the English by a SCOTTISH KING - James IV of Scotland, also known as James I of England

 

BUT - WHY would King 'Eck let the facts spoil his rhetoric and ranting?

 

He'd have been better placed IN the court of King James - they knew where THEIR court jesters stood in the pecking order; different times see the court jester trying to wear the crown!

James the First and Sixth. Not the James the Fourth, who was actually the last British Monarch killed in battle and had his army totally routed by Henry VIII's B team at Flodden Field in 1513. Henry himself had taken his A team across the channel to spank the frogs.

 

The actual Acts of Union that united the two countries took place in 1707 and was in effect forced on the Scots by near National bankruptcy following the disastrous Darien Scheme.

 

Google it.

[saddler]

James the First and Sixth. Not the James the Fourth, who was actually the last British Monarch killed in battle and had his army totally routed by Henry VIII's B team at Flodden Field in 1513. Henry himself had taken his A team across the channel to spank the frogs.

 

The actual Acts of Union that united the two countries took place in 1707 and was in effect forced on the Scots by near National bankruptcy following the disastrous Darien Scheme.

 

Google it.

 

AYE - got the V & I reversed - Roman Sums!!

 

I knew about James IV as I lived in the village near where he almost drowned as a youngster; so as thanks he gave the village a church. Ugly ****** it is too, looks like concrete!

 

Darien Scheme, near bankruptcy!?!?!?

...history about to repeat itself I feel.

 

Wonder what odds Ladbrokes are giving?

[four-wheel-drive]

I do not see the point in them going but if that is what they want then let them go but we should pull out all of our forces cancel to orders for them to build our new boats and let them get on with it I have nothing against them but do not expect us to pick up the bits if it all goes pair shaped.

[overandunder2012]

 

 

I struggle to understand how sinking without trace as an insignificant speck in the EU ocean is going to improve things.

 

a lot of people seem to say the same if we leave the eu

[poontang]

a lot of people seem to say the same if we leave the eu

 

Only those with a vested interest.

[islandgun]

Seems to me that Scotland have. by default, the chance to be out of the EU, somewhere that the majority of posters with their support of UKIP would like to be. given this how would they/you vote

[Gimlet]

a lot of people seem to say the same if we leave the eu

 

Naturally. There are a lot of very stupid people about.

[vmaxphil]

seems to me that salmond knows he is going to loose the vote and use it as ammunition against Cameron and his cronies

[Sprackles]

seems to me that salmond knows he is going to loose the vote and use it as ammunition against Cameron and his cronies

Latest Polls show the yes camp level pegging......

[henry d]

The problem is one of bigotry and intolerance. Salmond and his cohort see that people want something different yet they cannot put their finger on it precisely, they call it "English rule" or beaurocracy or some such, all of which is a sham. No matter where you live in the world you are ruled over or rule over or both.In effect it is a case of the grass being greener elsewhere, which it isn't

There is rhetoric and bluff from both sides and the biggest problem was when e were told that we could not use the pound as currency, that again turned people from voting NO to YES as it was seen as someone dictating to the masses, which is what happens every day but don't tell them that or they will have a fit!

The bigotry side is just using this to further anti-english/british sentiment which is a default setting for a lot of people here.

Edited April 8, 2014 by henry d

[Gimlet]

The problem is one of bigotry and intolerance. Salmond and his cohort see that people want something different yet they cannot put their finger on it precisely, they call it "English rule" or beaurocracy or some such, all of which is a sham. No matter where you live in the world you are ruled over or rule over or both.In effect it is a case of the grass being greener elsewhere, which it isn't

There is rhetoric and bluff from both sides and the biggest problem was when e were told that we could not use the pound as currency, that again turned people from voting NO to YES as it was seen as someone dictating to the masses, which is what happens every day but don't tell them that or they will have a fit!

The bigotry side is just using this to further anti-english/british sentiment which is a default setting for a lot of people here.

 

The issue of the pound highlights the bigotry and intolerance just below the surface. An independent Scotland really can't use the pound as a national currency. It can use it as a trading currency; it can use it as a pace setter and peg its own currency to it (though that is highly risky: ask Norman Lamont); but currency union without political union is a disaster waiting to happen. Any Westminster chancellor would be criminally negligent if he permitted such a thing. It is tantamount to getting divorced yet retaining a shared bank account because it offers a better overdraft and credit score for the less affluent partner, leaving each party liable for the other's debts without having any control over their spending or income generation. The Government's refusal to countenance such a ludicrous arrangement has somehow been fictionalised as the high-handed appropriation by the English of something that is Scotland's by right. It's not and it isn't.

Either the SNP are wilfully lying to the Scottish people about what is possible in order to generate anti-English momentum which they hope will carry them to victory or they genuinely believe their own rhetoric and haven't the first idea about how national currencies and economies work. Neither possibility bodes well for Scotland's future and its people could be in for a bitter awakening. Yet when an Englishman points out this obvious truth it because he is Scot-hating colonial oppressor.

It was precisely this blend of ostrich mentality and misplaced cultural grievance that bankrupted Scotland 300 years ago.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Gimlet

[keg]

Lord Robertson gave his opinion in a speech yesterday in Washington, saying that we needed to stick together. AS had vented his spleen as usual....

[islandgun]

Seems to me that Scotland have. by default, the chance to be out of the EU, somewhere that the majority of posters with their support of UKIP would like to be. given this how would they/you vote

I think this is too important for Britain and Scotland to still be squabbling about historic issues and personal distrust. the issue is when my children are my age and Salmond (and me) long dead will they live in an independent Scotland or a united Britain, The current voters in Scotland are facing the most important decision for several hundred years, simply could it be the making or ruin of Scotland I for one don't have a clue

Edited April 8, 2014 by islandgun

[henry d]

Too many if`s and but`s, however my main worry is over reliance on oil and lack of infra structure outside the central belt.