chrisjpainter Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 20th anniversary of the Rwandan Genocide this year. This report by George Alagiah is pretty moving. Anyone else remember the genocide happening? I was only 8 at the time and my memories are more of my parents reacting to it than the events themselves. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-26931517 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felly100 Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 There were announcements on the radio in Rwanda at the time to go and kill your Tutsi neighbours. Unbelievably people who had lived peacefully went and did just that. Any Hutu that didn't pick up a machete were hacked to death as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 800k dead!!!! Another successful UN intervention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88b Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 800k dead!!!! Another successful UN intervention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 800k dead!!!! Another successful UN intervention. I knew about it but it wasnt until i was listening to radio 2 yesterday that i realised how bad it was!! 800,000 dead with machetes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 800k dead!!!! Another successful UN intervention. Un-fathomable lack of interest by world leaders, who when self interest old hatreds or just plain greed are the motives are able to launch a "peace keeping" force immediately to the warring area, in this case perhaps it was just Africa, Small children were forced to kill their parents or be killed, child rape used as an act of war, the horrors were endless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I've been lucky enough to travel to Ottawa a few times with work, and whilst there went to the Canadian War Museum a couple of times. Last time I was there they had a large exhibition of artefacts and witness testimony from the Genocide and it was deeply disturbing to say the least. I can still picture a display of actual machetes and other farming implements used to maim and murder against a backdrop showing some of the injuries they inflicted and my blood still runs cold to this day at the thought. Nasty, nasty, nasty business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I spent some time in the country a few years before the troubles flared. It was a lovely place. Calm and peaceful. Good farming land and everyone very busy all the time. First impression was that there were hundreds of people about all the time. High population and very crowded in the capital. Even when I got arrested and banged up for a short while the police were very polite and friendly. Beggars belief how they got into the situation that they did. History reveals that the same sort of thing has happened in other parts of Africa in the past. When they have a go they really do have a go. Must have been absolutely horrific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Very sad story. It boils my blood reading and hearing about things happening like this - really does. The thought of innocent men, women and kids all being butchered makes me feel sick to the bone. I can't understand how someone could kill a kid or woman. I understand war and men killing each other over disputed lands, monies etc... but not whole families. Even with this Syria thing, I have to turn telly off when it comes up on news now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 I spent some time in the country a few years before the troubles flared. It was a lovely place. Calm and peaceful. Good farming land and everyone very busy all the time. First impression was that there were hundreds of people about all the time. High population and very crowded in the capital. Even when I got arrested and banged up for a short while the police were very polite and friendly. Beggars belief how they got into the situation that they did. History reveals that the same sort of thing has happened in other parts of Africa in the past. When they have a go they really do have a go. Must have been absolutely horrific. I was able to go in 2004 and it was a very different experience to yours, Grandalf. The scenery is still fantastic, but we as westerners got a pretty frosty reception from local people. stones and sticks were thrown at the car, people refusing to serve us in the markets. Not a happy place. Whilst there, speaking with the Bishop of Rwanda, he said that back then, the hardest thing to combat then was the hopelessness. The genocide ripped families apart and the rest of the world just let it happen, if no one cares when you're dying, why care when you're living? Things seem to have got better now, which is great to see, but there are a lot of scars that need healing. There's a brilliant memorial and museum in Kigali, every bit as harrowing and disgusting as the one in Auschwitz. it's on the site of one of the many mass graves. One of those places you don't want to see, but need to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Glad I saw Kigali in the better days. I have nice memories of the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 (edited) The real problem is most people are quite capable of doing the most horrendous things but we hate to admit it you just have to see what nice ordenery people say that they would do to a pedophile I have always thought that we British have a lot in common with the Germans and look at what they did in ww2 then you get the Irish on both sides they was quite capable of doing terrible things to other people. Perhaps in some countrys like Africa etc where people have next to nothing small things like feeling that for some reason you are a bit better than another tribe or even in America years ago you had the pore white people who looked down on the black people why it is stupid but nobody ever wants to be on the bottom of the pile and that is just human nature. Edited April 8, 2014 by four-wheel-drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 The real problem is most people are quite capable of doing the most horrendous things but we hate to admit it you just have to see what nice ordenery people say that they would do to a pedophile I have always thought that we British have a lot in common with the Germans and look at what they did in ww2 then you get the Irish on both sides they was quite capable of doing terrible things to other people. Perhaps in some countrys like Africa etc where people have next to nothing small things like feeling that for some reason you are a bit better than another tribe or even in America years ago you had the pore white people who looked down on the black people why it is stupid but nobody ever wants to be on the bottom of the pile and that is just human nature. Most of it's racism mate one group of people thinking their better than another, what isn't racism is a stronger country helping themselves to the weaker countries land or resources, been happening since man started to walk on two legs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Bu Le Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Yes I remember Rwanda and the atrocities; horrendous that people can do those kind of things to each other. Have thought for quite some time that Africa will never be as complete as it should for one reason. Tribalism...........there have been other atrocities in Africa over the years all committed by there own people against there own people from different tribes. That's before we consider what the westerners may have done (which I shan't do here). Can't remember which African country it was, it was a long time ago, maybe Kenya or Nigeria ?? Medicines San Frontiere inoculated a lot of children against various conditions. Rebels who did not agree with westerners of any sort went into the villages and cut the arms that been injected off the kids who had been inoculated. Where does this mentality come from ?? Beats me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Not quite right... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9decins_Sans_Fronti%C3%A8res#Sierra_Leone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Although the numbers are horrendous, sadly its happened before and it will happen again. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Its not just an African thing it is also a lot closer to home than that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sarajevo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felly100 Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Didn't the "Black Hawk Down"episode in Somalia influence a lot of military decision making round that period?ie If we can't carpet bomb them we will leave well alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Although the numbers are horrendous, sadly its happened before and it will happen again. KW maybe, but even if it does happen in Burundi, or Congo, or Gabon, perhaps it won't happen again in Rwanda. That will only be the case if people remember it and commemorate the dead and use it as a warning to future generations. Even as genocides go, this Rwandan was particularly brutal. very few were killed by gunfire, it was mostly done with machetes and anything else that was available to the militia. Its not just an African thing it is also a lot closer to home than that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sarajevo No it's not sadly, I just brought the Rwandan genocide up because it's 20 years from the 7th April 1994. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Didn't the "Black Hawk Down"episode in Somalia influence a lot of military decision making round that period?ie If we can't carpet bomb them we will leave well alone. That was symptomatic of how badly the Americans understood/understand African politics. They also had had no historical influence at all in that part of Africa. The main countries who could have done the most about it (France, Belgium and to a lesser extent, the UK) chose not to get involved. The UN screwed up massively, it was always a stage behind the events and could never catch up. A lot of the UN debate rested on the distinction between 'genocide' and 'acts of genocide'. At the time, The UN was compelled to act if 'genocide' is confirmed, but not if 'acts of genocide'. One result of the Rwandan genocide was that this bizarre loophole was closed up. The UN should have acted in full force and given the individual unsung heroes the full backing they deserved. Instead they got deserted. If you want a depressing watch, I highly recommend Hotel Rwanda. Great film, sensitively done. Could have/should have been made more bloody, but the chaos and politics are well described Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Another problem is when this stuff goes on in African or Asion countrys if we as (white) people go in to try and stop it we just end up with all sides shooting at us saying that we are trying to take over the place so we just cannot win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Bu Le Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) Not quite right... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9decins_Sans_Fronti%C3%A8res#Sierra_Leone Did say could not remember due to time..............anyhoos thanks for the link Henry. Edited April 9, 2014 by Sha Bu Le Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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