'Scopeless' night vision shooting

[Dave-G]

Here's a taste of things to come: Digital night vision is catching up with tubed gen 2 and gen 3. It's not quite as good yet but steep progress is being made. I had the rifle rested on my 4WD shooting truck door mirror bracket and used it as both a combined spotter and rifle scope. The crosshair is an electronically generated part of the low light camera OSD overlay. You can use it in the head up position or cheekweld position.

 

Please watch the video with the smallest youtube screen you can select - which will be nowhere near as good an image as the shooter sees on his 4.7"~ 5"monitor/DVR screen. Even when IR is needed - much less of it can be used because the CCTV camera is working better than was designed to with just a large aperture lens in front of it - rather than a small lens viewing through the small exit pupil of a day-scope.

 

I am making the more complicated build parts for this rig available within the next week or so, and will post up the build details here - and I will be offering complete rifle scope builds and dashboard spotter units from well under £400 for those who do not like to make DIY builds. This video shows what you can expect to see in both clear moonlight and heavy cloud conditions.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2014 by Dave-G

[Fisheruk]

Interesting Dave, what sort of range and can you post a photo of the setup? Regards David

[steve_b_wales]

Very good, and I'm interested in getting one.

[Grandalf]

The future has got to be digital.

Good video.

Thanks

[Dave-G]

Cheers lads, I'm still waiting for the rear enclosure to be made and don't want to show a photo of my mock up to be honest because its a bit too Blue Peter ATM.

 

Air and subsonic ranges are the ones that need to be the most covert because the shooter is in hearing and scenting range and this is perfect for that with no IR most of the time.

 

In short, the bullet camera is carried inside a 30mm O/D tube so it will fit into a pair of 30mm scope mounts. The front of the tube has a 'C' mount thread tapped into it to take either a C mount, CS mount or M42 mount lens with a C mount adaptor. The bullet cam can be slid inside the tube to the correct back focal distance of the particular lens you choose and be retained in position with a grub screw. The camera wiring exits the rear of the tube into a deep enclosure large enough contain the cables and battery and place a 5" monitor or DVR just above the breech - where it will be focusable for most shooters eyes.

 

This is the tube part of the build:

 

 

It is substantially shorter than this first threading exercise:

 

 

This was the original plan but the 2.5" screen is too small for accurate shots with most shooters eyes;

 

Edited April 25, 2014 by Dave-G

[NickB65]

Now that looks neat...... getting a screen that is visible to the naked eye that close will be interesting - I hate looking at screens and prefer to shoulder the rifle so this to me looks real good....

[camokid]

now this looks to be good...very interesting

[huntsman]

WOW......... brilllliant work to create such a good quality NV

 

I would certainly be interested keep me posted PLEASSSSE

[mick miller]

What's it like in the daytime Dave?

[remmy1100]

looks good what is going to be the limits to its useable range for rimfire and is magnification at range going to be good ,video didnt mention range of rabbits videod

[Dave-G]

What's it like in the daytime Dave?

Good question mick/Dave, one that's best addressed: Not as good as a day-scoped rifle, but unlike the Photon this will have a user adjustable iris so it's much more daylight friendly.

It's optimised as a dedicated NV rifle that can be used in the day at no extra cost or equipment: As opposed to a day optimised rifle that can be used for NV - at significant extra cost and equipment.

 

That part is better than Gen 2 or Gen 3 - because tubed is not used in daylight.

 

Colours will be a bit washed out though - because the IR block filter on the camera sensor will be removed.

IR block filters are available for anyone wanting to venture out with their dedicated NV rig if they want normal colours to the human eye.

[mark@mbb]

If you would of put a D760 on your rifle your would of thought it was daylight with a full moon a bit different with a cloudy night but digital is going to be the way forward in a few years it still a long way behind at the minute

[mick miller]

I don't think it's that far behind to be honest. I think, if someone can get the balance right, you can have a very good unit for both day and night. I prefer a day scope for day, always have, so build add ons that get the best from a day scope. But, if the right balance is struck then I think a good digi unit will beat tubed hands down in terms of cost, performance and flexibility - it's just a matter of time now really.

 

My issue with using tv screens as opposed to near eye displays for day/ night units is simply that in daytime I think they will struggle to be very clear with reflected light off the screen, certainly I struggle to see the screen on my smartphone in daylight, even on full brightness.

[FalconFN]

I don't think it's that far behind to be honest. I think, if someone can get the balance right, you can have a very good unit for both day and night. I prefer a day scope for day, always have, so build add ons that get the best from a day scope. But, if the right balance is struck then I think a good digi unit will beat tubed hands down in terms of cost, performance and flexibility - it's just a matter of time now really.

 

My issue with using tv screens as opposed to near eye displays for day/ night units is simply that in daytime I think they will struggle to be very clear with reflected light off the screen, certainly I struggle to see the screen on my smartphone in daylight, even on full brightness.

+1

 

I am thinking of making a scopeless setup but with a cheap CRT viewfinder (which I have on my addon) as screens are not for me.

 

Very good stuff though Dave, I look forward to seeing the final product.

[telf]

youve done it again ,best get saving,you never cease to amaze and cost me money dave

[Dave-G]

looks good what is going to be the limits to its useable range for rimfire and is magnification at range going to be good ,video didnt mention range of rabbits videod

Another good question, thanks Remmy1100: Lets get that factor addressed too, because its a negative compared with a variable mag day-scope.

 

I used a 75mm focal length lens in that video - which relates to about 5~6 mag.... FIXED 5~6 MAG. Normal or CCTV camera lens have less need to be as close fitting in their carriers because they don't need to retain a precise zero. So, just like tubed NVD's there is no variable mag option.... unless you want to lose zero every time you shift the zoom.

By all means use a vari-mag lens but only if you can lock the zoom so you cannot accidentally adjust it.

 

To answer the question then, that 75mm lens is in my opinion a 100 yard/subsonic lens: Look back at the longest shot of the night which was 112 yards, a bunny head shot would be getting difficult I think. Further, the crosshair is generally going to be a simple full screen cross unless you want to set up a very tricky one...which is electronically generated as a screen overlay using a built in joystick. That will be addressed later.

 

The next common lens size up is 135mm - I'd guess that is 150 yard HMR range until I get to try the one I just got hold of.

 

50mm lenses would suffice for sub 12ftlb range.

 

I guess you could generalise the focal length millimetres to upper shooting ranges in yards.

youve done it again ,best get saving,you never cease to amaze and cost me money dave

Sorry about that me old beauty.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Dave-G

[spanj]

wow, am impressed mate. Think I'll be having one of these when they are ready !

[reindeer]

I really like the idea of scopeless NV. It makes setup much easier. Would this concept also work with high power centerfire rifles?

Can anyone explain the difference between the KT&C EJ 230 and EW 230 bullet camera? The latter one seems to be much more sensitive, regarding the lux rating in the manufacturor's data sheet.

Is there a supplier for these cameras in the UK?

Edited April 27, 2014 by reindeer

[Dave-G]

SURE24 are the UK agents for KT&C, Google will find them. I'm not familiar with the EW230. The 'J part of EJ230 signifies the joystick at the rear of the camera body from which you build your reticle from the privacy settings.

 

135mm or even 200mm focal length cameras could be used for C/F - but the latter would be way too tight a FOV for closer ranges - remember you cannot adjust zoom on these. I think it's fair to say that there is much less need to be as covert at C/F ranges so I feel there is less to be gained for that distance.

 

There are cheaper cameras that are almost as good, but avoiding the very best no light performance within reason, for the extra £30 or so will always leave you feeling you could have done better.

[Dave-G]

Being 62 years old I know how some people are worried about trying new ideas and I am often reluctant to take on 'changes'.

 

However, if I can grasp the hang of doing this I'm sure most of you can too:

 

[Highbird70]

I really like your ideas Dave, I think he end product will be very useful to all of us.

 

Thank you

[Dave-G]

Here's a quick preview of what I've been working on recently.

I'm waiting on parts and tools to refine the internal connections - so that detail will come in a few days time. After being let down by two potential enclosure suppliers because I could not take umpteen units I had to pay through the teeth to get these.

The monitor is fitted with Velcro. Whilst that may initially seem a bit basic, I can't think of any other means of temporarily raising the monitor so that it can still be viewed whilst using both hands to hold the rifle and adjust the EJ230 joystick on the rear of the camera for zero corrections: Suggestions are invited.

This also provides quick access to the battery carrier which in this case is a twin 18650 holder. The user will probably already have a few 18650 batteries and charger available - and I won't be supplying them. I therefore won't get my *** sued or lose my house if they go bang because of any misuse.

The enclosure can also be used for other DIY builds - it's mounting fits about half way into a 30mm scope mount.

The possibilities are wide ranging;

[markbjones01]

Dave g this looks really impressive especially as it has the day and night capabilities. Im a real techno phobe and the majority of stuff you have all mentioned goes way over my head but ive been wanting to ask a question and not wanting to be lampooned - heck here goes , How do you zero your scope in ?

 

atb mark

[Dave-G]

OI B) It ain't a scope but here you go Mark, this is only relative to the EJ230 bullet camera.

 

Stop skip reading please 'cos this was posted up earlier in the thread, and if you saw how my last build thread went with repeatedly answering the same questions you'll see why I say that....

 

 

 

Other cams have different OSD systems, and are a tad down on performance - which might appeal to some who want to save £30 or so: But that means you don't get to stalk up - and maybe take the shot with zero IR anywhere as well:

 

As an aside, the EJ230 camera, having the joystick on the camera itself means there are only three wires in the cable coming from the camera - dead easy to crop and terminate to save space - whereas the cheaper ones have the joystick on a rather long cable which is a PITA for compact enclosing.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Dave-G

[markbjones01]

OI B) It ain't a scope but here you go Mark, this is only relative to the EJ230 bullet camera.

 

Stop skip reading please 'cos this was posted up earlier in the thread, and if you saw how my last build thread went with repeatedly answering the same questions you'll see why I say that....

 

 

 

Other cams have different OSD systems, and are a tad down on performance - which might appeal to some who want to save £30 or so: But that means you don't get to stalk up - and maybe take the shot with zero IR anywhere as well:

 

As an aside, the EJ230 camera, having the joystick on the camera itself means there are only three wires in the cable coming from the camera - dead easy to crop and terminate to save space - whereas the cheaper ones have the joystick on a rather long cable which is a PITA for compact enclosing.

 

 

thanks dave lesson learnt and thanks for the info