welsh1 Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Thanks, Not wishing to patronise you, but surely you and others must see, and most fundamentally, that if you take Farage away UKIP will capitulate and pretty damn quickly at that... You keep on about change but UKIP aren't going to give you that.... they wont even come close. I dare say they will do well in the Euro elections and essentially and paradoxically UKIP voters who want change in Europe will be voting for the parties own demise...its a kind of political suicide in a way. Vote UKIP, get the ascendancy in Europe, Cameron holds a Referendum, we vote to withdraw, UKIP MEP,s made redundant, Farage defects to Natural England, UKIP disappears for ever and ever...and the wheels on the bus go round and round... If you want real change in Europe to the benefit UK as a whole, including securing trade opportunity, Jobs, and reducing immigration ..voting Conservative in the Euro elections is the only way to do it... even if like me, it will just be a protest vote. You all know it makes sense...and is suspect even Gimlet will agree with me. FM,you are correct that Farage is a figure head, the same as Cameron,milliband and Clegg are, all parties need a charismatic leader (clegg not included) that is the nature of being a leader. You keep on about wanting real change in europe, and then encourage everyone to vote for the main parties, in this case tory,but in the 40 years of being in the eu what change has come about, despite cameron's posturing in the last 2 years and the rhetoric he has spouted about standing up to the eu,no real change has happened,and that is the problem the main parties seem to think they will talk big and the public will be impressed,but the public can see through the charade. As for your point of Cameron holding a referendum,that is fine,UKIP cease to exist once a referendum is held as that is why they exist,so all the main parties have to do is have the in/out referendum with no caveats and let the public decide . UKIP are a party that will make the main parties look deep within and consider their position ,there is nothing that focusses a politicians mind as the prospect of losing core voters and power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Thanks, Not wishing to patronise you, but surely you and others must see, and most fundamentally, that if you take Farage away UKIP will capitulate and pretty damn quickly at that... You keep on about change but UKIP aren't going to give you that.... they wont even come close. I dare say they will do well in the Euro elections and essentially and paradoxically UKIP voters who want change in Europe will be voting for the parties own demise...its a kind of political suicide in a way. Vote UKIP, get the ascendancy in Europe, Cameron holds a Referendum, we vote to withdraw, UKIP MEP,s made redundant, Farage defects to Natural England, UKIP disappears for ever and ever...and the wheels on the bus go round and round... If you want real change in Europe to the benefit UK as a whole, including securing trade opportunity, Jobs, and reducing immigration ..voting Conservative in the Euro elections is the only way to do it... even if like me, it will just be a protest vote. You all know it makes sense...and is suspect even Gimlet will agree with me. you really should be on the stage, your posts are better than hancocks half hour. KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berettacocker Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 I'll be voting Farage/ukip. You don't think he's as bad as the rest do you? Think he'll do good by us,he's also a mad keen Boat angler, fishing along the South coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 If you want real change in Europe to the benefit UK as a whole, including securing trade opportunity, Jobs, and reducing immigration ..voting Conservative in the Euro elections is the only way to do it... even if like me, it will just be a protest vote. You all know it makes sense...and is suspect even Gimlet will agree with me. Not a chance. Voting Conservative for real change in Europe...?!! I'd laugh if it was funny... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 you really should be on the stage, your posts are better than hancocks half hour. KW Admit it..your scared very scared Not a chance. Voting Conservative for real change in Europe...?!! I'd laugh if it was funny... Strange I would have put my house on you being a staunch Tory Boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) I'll be voting Farage/ukip. You don't think he's as bad as the rest do you? Think he'll do good by us,he's also a mad keen Boat angler, fishing along the South coast. No he's worse... He would like you to think he was..along with the fake beer drinking and cigar smoking. its justa publicity stunt to make him appear more popular.. All he is...is a failed Tory candidate and poor pilot. Edited May 13, 2014 by Fisherman Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 This sums up labour and the tory's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Thanks, Not wishing to patronise you, but surely you and others must see, and most fundamentally, that if you take Farage away UKIP will capitulate and pretty damn quickly at that... You keep on about change but UKIP aren't going to give you that.... they wont even come close. Mike, what you seem to be forgetting is that there are a lot of Eurosceptic Tory MP's on the backbenches at the moment, at least 80 at the last count. A convincing result in the upcoming election, especially if the Tories are pushed into third place, will almost certainly lead to massive internal upheaval in the party, possibly (hopefully) even a bid to oust Cameron before the general election. Don't for one minute think it's only UKIP who want out of Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safc1973 Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 This sums up labour and the tory's And clegg is in the middle being taken to the toilet by his mum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Strange I would have put my house on you being a staunch Tory Boy. No doubt. Your tendency to leap to the wrong conclusions based on blind assumption has already been noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 I'll be voting Farage/ukip. You don't think he's as bad as the rest do you? Think he'll do good by us,he's also a mad keen Boat angler, fishing along the South coast. Erm, yes, if not worse - he's an excellent example of a band-standing showman and political game-player. I think he is a very, very long way from being able to do anything by himself and quite frankly his fondness for fishing is as irreverent as Cameron's fondness for shooting. Anyhoo, shall we have a sweep-stake for the number of seats UKIP will get? I will plump for a rather generous 25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Erm, yes, if not worse - he's an excellent example of a band-standing showman and political game-player. I think he is a very, very long way from being able to do anything by himself and quite frankly his fondness for fishing is as irreverent as Cameron's fondness for shooting. Anyhoo, shall we have a sweep-stake for the number of seats UKIP will get? I will plump for a rather generous 25. all things considered and with my vast political knowledge i reckon in the mid 40,s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodcock11 Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Erm, yes, if not worse - he's an excellent example of a band-standing showman and political game-player. I think he is a very, very long way from being able to do anything by himself and quite frankly his fondness for fishing is as irreverent as Cameron's fondness for shooting. Anyhoo, shall we have a sweep-stake for the number of seats UKIP will get? I will plump for a rather generous 25. HEY HO - last time around 13 UKIP MEPs were elected - five of them were either sacked, resigned or lost the party whip - that is equal to one third of them - not exactly a vote of confidence in the calibre of the UKIP candidates who got elected, let alone those that did not..... OK maybe they will do a bit better next time and whether it is 25 or 40, anyone who votes for an UKIP MEP and they get elected stands an one in three chance of them being sacked, resigning or losing the party whip - if you are a lover of all things Farage, then I guess that is a chance that you will take but it does not exactly inspire confidence - does it ? To many of us it speaks of chaos and utter incompetence. Are the candidates really, really any better this time around - come on all you UKIP afficionados a little soul searching and honesty, rather than blind obedience, might be the answer for once. I sit back [and with little hope] await an outpouring of UKIP realism........ the blind continue to lead the blind..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted May 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 It will be interesting to see how many defectors there are from the other parties that vote UKIP. I would be surprised if any Lib Dems, with their party in disarray, defected to UKIP in favour of the Tories. The staunch conservatives wont shed their allegiance and neither will many labour. So they will have to rely on the fringe parties and latent supporters shaking off their apathy and bothering to turn out and vote. What surprises me is that the competition parties pre election campaign has been so quiet and subdued compared to UKIPS... almost dismissive in some respects as if they are not concerned at all if UKIP capture the majority of MEP seats ............very strange...what are they up to ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 HEY HO - last time around 13 UKIP MEPs were elected - five of them were either sacked, resigned or lost the party whip - that is equal to one third of them - not exactly a vote of confidence in the calibre of the UKIP candidates who got elected, let alone those that did not..... OK maybe they will do a bit better next time and whether it is 25 or 40, anyone who votes for an UKIP MEP and they get elected stands an one in three chance of them being sacked, resigning or losing the party whip - if you are a lover of all things Farage, then I guess that is a chance that you will take but it does not exactly inspire confidence - does it ? To many of us it speaks of chaos and utter incompetence. Are the candidates really, really any better this time around - come on all you UKIP afficionados a little soul searching and honesty, rather than blind obedience, might be the answer for once. I sit back [and with little hope] await an outpouring of UKIP realism........ the blind continue to lead the blind..... And the other parties are immune to being sacked resigning or losing the whip? read on,Do you really want to waste your vote on one of these main parties when there is a chance they will be booted out of office.? http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/469499/Scandal-hit-Coalition-Government-losing-a-Cabinet-minister-to-sleaze-every-NINE-months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) It will be interesting to see how many defectors there are from the other parties that vote UKIP. I would be surprised if any Lib Dems, with their party in disarray, defected to UKIP in favour of the Tories. The staunch conservatives wont shed their allegiance and neither will many labour. So they will have to rely on the fringe parties and latent supporters shaking off their apathy and bothering to turn out and vote. What surprises me is that the competition parties pre election campaign has been so quiet and subdued compared to UKIPS... almost dismissive in some respects as if they are not concerned at all if UKIP capture the majority of MEP seats ............very strange...what are they up to ? Ukip doesn't gather support only from disaffected Tories and labour voters. Polls indicate it is drawing increasing support from a third group, those who usually don't bother to vote at all. Voter turn-out in the Euro elections is traditionally dire at around 35% on a good day so statistically new-interest voters are the largest group. That fact makes this election unusual and unpredictable. And most worrying for the main parties since this group is an untapped electoral gold mine. Habitual non-voters who are stirred to support Ukip now in the Euros are more likely to stay with them in the general election than would be the disaffected protest voters who when push comes to shove are afraid to move out of their political comfort zone. The establishment parties therefore are playing a game of expectation management. They will have calculated that it is better to stay silent in the face of expectations of a Ukip landslide in the hope that anything less than annihilation can be presented as a kind of victory. Its normal strategy, commonly used in mid term bi-elections and flagrantly patronising to voters. Edited May 13, 2014 by Gimlet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 And the other parties are immune to being sacked resigning or losing the whip? read on,Do you really want to waste your vote on one of these main parties when there is a chance they will be booted out of office.? http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/469499/Scandal-hit-Coalition-Government-losing-a-Cabinet-minister-to-sleaze-every-NINE-months Careful now. They don't want to accept that sort of thing...it's their blind obedience to the political elite you see. Roll on the 22nd May. I can't wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted May 13, 2014 Report Share Posted May 13, 2014 Careful now. They don't want to accept that sort of thing...it's their blind obedience to the political elite you see. Roll on the 22nd May. I can't wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 There isn't even anything new on the fliers that have been pushed through my letterbox, just the same old same old carp. The Tories are still bleating on about the referendum that they have been going on about for years now and never delivered on. The Libdems (my MEP I've never even heard of 'til now) are still bleating on about job losses as the consequences; more than likely their jobs, and Labour, well, what can you say about the enigmatic Millipede? The patronising insincerity of the established mainstream seems a mite more desperate at the moment; shall I give them another chance? HA! Eight days and counting...don't forget to vote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead eye alan Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Yes I personally do, have a look at the crackpots that have come from all the three traditional parties and the convictions and prison terms handed out. Nigel has a fairly new party by comparison to those like the Liberals and conservative even Labour, new labour, new- newer Labour etc. and like a new garden it needs some weeding to get into shape. I should like to look at some serious weeding in all those parties. Set us back 50 years? sounds good to me actually as it pre-dates that which the public actually said yes to. The rest? European birds directive, failed euro experiment, more new laws from persons we the public did not elect. All these thing shouldn't exist and 50 years ago we had more jobs than people, better education and apprentice training, a car trade that was exporting and the envy of the world. Set us back 50 years yes please, bring it on sooner the better YES please lets get back to common sense and stop this EU madness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
four-wheel-drive Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 In reality we will end up with one of the big parties being voted in the genaral election and nothing will change the fact is the powers that be like the EU and do not give a damb what us ordenery voters think if we do get a vote just like the last time they will frighten the public in to thinking that the EU is the only option or we will end up as a third world country and the people like sheep will believe them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 9 pages and still going...ok here goes then........ We will certainly not get a UKIP Government, and Nigel is in many ways a one man band, but what he has done, is bring the big boys a bit more in line with public thinking, and for that if nothing else, I give him a . ATB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Don't you just love political threads! yes and this ones been a cracker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted May 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Ukip doesn't gather support only from disaffected Tories and labour voters. Polls indicate it is drawing increasing support from a third group, those who usually don't bother to vote at all. Voter turn-out in the Euro elections is traditionally dire at around 35% on a good day so statistically new-interest voters are the largest group. That fact makes this election unusual and unpredictable. And most worrying for the main parties since this group is an untapped electoral gold mine. Habitual non-voters who are stirred to support Ukip now in the Euros are more likely to stay with them in the general election than would be the disaffected protest voters who when push comes to shove are afraid to move out of their political comfort zone. The establishment parties therefore are playing a game of expectation management. They will have calculated that it is better to stay silent in the face of expectations of a Ukip landslide in the hope that anything less than annihilation can be presented as a kind of victory. Its normal strategy, commonly used in mid term bi-elections and flagrantly patronising to voters. Yes that's what I said ...."Latent Voters" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodcock11 Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 And the other parties are immune to being sacked resigning or losing the whip? read on,Do you really want to waste your vote on one of these main parties when there is a chance they will be booted out of office.? http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/469499/Scandal-hit-Coalition-Government-losing-a-Cabinet-minister-to-sleaze-every-NINE-months aaah! - How VERY exciting - an endangered species - someone who reads the Daily Express...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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