chairman of BASC

[jasons gold]

They try every year to get our marsh. The thing I don't get is how they can take new members money and let them loose on marshes without training the would be wildfowlers in the dangers of the marsh and bird identification. Just to secure more funds to do it all over again

[bobshooting]

They try every year to get our marsh. The thing I don't get is how they can take new members money and let them loose on marshes without training the would be wildfowlers in the dangers of the marsh and bird identification. Just to secure more funds to do it all over again

Perhaps I'm being naïve, I can be slow on the uptake sometimes, but surely, if you're both members of BASC, they won't allow Kent to try to ''steal'' your marsh, every year, or at all?

 

Or is that organisation just a disinterested observer in all this?

[Double four]

Well Alan Jarrat of kent wildfowlers is the chairman of basc wildfowling, conflict of interest springs to mind !

[DNT]

jasons gold, You do not state if you are talking about a club operating an inclusive access to your marsh or if you are a private syndicate or a commercial venture. I have no issue with any of the above, but if you are a private syndicate or commercial you will always be at the mercy of bidding wars from other commercial groups or clubs wishing to make land more available to all. Could you clarify that for me please?

[kent]

jasons gold, You do not state if you are talking about a club operating an inclusive access to your marsh or if you are a private syndicate or a commercial venture. I have no issue with any of the above, but if you are a private syndicate or commercial you will always be at the mercy of bidding wars from other commercial groups or clubs wishing to make land more available to all. Could you clarify that for me please?

An interesting point and something that Kent Wildfowlers have achieved No I am not a member but without active numbers of wildfowlers all will be lost to us in time, you cant keep guys from becoming a member and still hold your ground indefinitely unless you own lock stock and barrel

[DNT]

Very true, in Kent we have been under various pressures for many years on our shooting land. Only once from a shooting club, but mainly from Conservation Orgs. or big business. Obviously we are more likely to come under pressure in the busy SE. In fact it was the continued concern over these matters that started us on the land purchase road. We are fortunate in the fact that the very problem we have by virtue of location, also gives us a large membership base to draw from. We now own and have very long watertight leases over several thousands of acres. We also have a handful of areas that are vulnerable from pressures of industry, not least the ongoing saga around the proposed sites being considered for a new hub airport. On the question of shooting rights we have a simple strategy working in descending order from Owning the land, owning the shooting rights, leasing , licence. To this end we are prepared to enter into joint ventures on both purchase and lease or any other arrangement that we deem acceptable. We would however only deal with Conservation groups if it was the last game in town. I have stated on the forum already, we have a reasonable relationship with local officers of the various groups, but we have seen examples locally of various losses of land (ours and others) where these organisations have been involved or had influence from a national level.

[anser2]

jasons gold, You do not state if you are talking about a club operating an inclusive access to your marsh or if you are a private syndicate or a commercial venture. I have no issue with any of the above, but if you are a private syndicate or commercial you will always be at the mercy of bidding wars from other commercial groups or clubs wishing to make land more available to all. Could you clarify that for me please?

 

So you are quite happy to take an individuals wildfowling away from him knowing that an individual is not likely to be able to match from bid a large club and the mere fact that you are bidding is likely to push the price up. So much for fowling solidarity more like grab what you can and tough for any other fowler.

 

Greed shear greed , you cant tell me you need all this extra land.

Edited June 22, 2014 by anser2

[Terry P]

Is that any greedier than a individual or small group keeping it to themselves Robert, where is the solidarity in that. At least Kent will be willing to share with any wildfowler that wishes to join the club.

[Dave-G]

 

So you are quite happy to take an individuals wildfowling away from him knowing that an individual is not likely to be able to match from bid a large club and the mere fact that you are bidding is likely to push the price up. So much for fowling solidarity more like grab what you can and tough for any other fowler.

 

Greed shear greed , you cant tell me you need all this extra land.

Hmm, how would you feel if other well funded groups bid more than an individual - but their bids weren't countered with higher bids from those who can afford it to retain it for wildfowling?

 

It sounds more like pro-actively retaining the land for wildfowling rather than see it lost to other uses - albeit that said fowlers may have to pay more to continue using it.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Dave-G

[riptide]

We within the Essex Joint Council of Wildfowling Clubs have learnt the lessons of the past , in fighting and back stabbing might have been the norm years ago when one travelled between parishes by Shanskyes Pony and every one in the village was related to each other ,But we hope we have grown up and moved on from those Good Old Days !!!!

 

We now have in place between the EJC clubs an agreement that if one club is after a area and lets the Sec or Chair of EJC know then other clubs with in EJC will stand back, maybe offer assistance, and wait for the original club to conclude their negotiations if all goes well fine if not the first club will let the next nearest know so they can then go for it.

 

This seems to work and is the fairest way we feel to behave, if an Essex club had an opportunity out with Essex we would hope the same situation would prevail... This I have done two or three times as have come across land in another county and rang the club their to let them know ..

 

This does not mean the Essex clubs achieve their aims all the time as some you win some you lose! I am sure if we were to add up all the EJC clubs holdings, owned, rented or long term lease it would be a large area!!

 

Riptide

[Penelope]

From what I have seen the EJC works well; the inter club clay shoot and gundog test help form a good bond between the individual club's members, alongside the behind the scenes work done by the committees.

 

We within the Essex Joint Council of Wildfowling Clubs have learnt the lessons of the past , in fighting and back stabbing might have been the norm years ago when one travelled between parishes by Shanskyes Pony and every one in the village was related to each other ,But we hope we have grown up and moved on from those Good Old Days !!!!

 

We now have in place between the EJC clubs an agreement that if one club is after a area and lets the Sec or Chair of EJC know then other clubs with in EJC will stand back, maybe offer assistance, and wait for the original club to conclude their negotiations if all goes well fine if not the first club will let the next nearest know so they can then go for it.

 

This seems to work and is the fairest way we feel to behave, if an Essex club had an opportunity out with Essex we would hope the same situation would prevail... This I have done two or three times as have come across land in another county and rang the club their to let them know ..

 

This does not mean the Essex clubs achieve their aims all the time as some you win some you lose! I am sure if we were to add up all the EJC clubs holdings, owned, rented or long term lease it would be a large area!!

 

Riptide

[nic]

This topic comes up regularly. Its like the question of which is better OU/sxs or SA... everyone has their own opinion, doesn't matter what anyone else says ... its their opinion.

wouldn't it be nice if we could use our energy more productively! than annually repeating the same things

[anser2]

Quote "Hmm, how would you feel if other well funded groups bid more than an individual - but their bids weren't countered with higher bids from those who can afford it to retain it for wildfowling?"

 

I would not be happy if any group in any form takes away an individuals shootings.

[jasons gold]

ours is a commercial venture that is / could be beneficial to essex wildfowling clubs by introducing novice wildfowlers under supervised conditions to try wildfowling. Then they can possibly join a wildfowling club if they have enjoyed the experience , if we were aproached by the ejc and we said know we were not interested they wouldnt contact us untill we contacted them , but kent every year comes sniffing around .just for a land grab , and if they ask this year we will take it up with basc . The problem with kent wildfowlers is they take your money and your free to go to the marsh of your choice , i remember when i had to do my test for blackwater wildfowlers ,it was hard and you still had a probationary period after that

[evo]

crickey,,,I must say that after reading this I,m glad I live in the Wirral and not Essex

 

atb Evo

[DNT]

Jasonsgold. I appreciate your points but there are many Wildfowlers who feel a commercial enterprise has no place in true Wildfowling. If you want to operate on those lines shoot released mallard only. I assume you are foreshore shooting all migratory species and trade for profit. Having said that you make a fair claim that novice Wildfowlers can try the sport to see if they like it. But most clubs offer that either through the BASC Wildfowling scheme or one of their own, we offer both at KWCA. It is also a little unfair to say we just let people go to a marsh of their choice. We have lots of new members every year, many of these join with friends already in the club to take them under their wing. For those new to the sport with very little knowledge we have a sub-committee who arrange trips with existing members, marsh visits with the wardens and lots of advice both on the website and in person ( every new member is assigned a mentor). I would say that practically all new members who fall into the no or very little knowledge take advantage of whatever help is there. We find this approach along with our other section memberships keeps us very busy dealing with enquiries. Whilst I accept there is nothing wrong with your Blackwater and others approach, I would suggest it puts people off when they feel they are in a mandatory test/training scenario. Also it depends on the number of new members you have, if your dealing with a dozen or so, your training etc. is easy to cope with. On average years we are processing between 50 - 60 new members, this year seems to have started even better than usual. The workload on our team is immense and remember their not on wages. Our system works well for us and rarely do we have any problems.

[jasons gold]

is yours not a commercial enterprise then , i would have thought by making a profit then buying new leases that would make you a commercial enterprise . Because last time i looked your not a charity. the point i was making about some of your members not having sufficient training is a valid one , because we have met some of your members on our marsh and most of them cant tell the difference between a widgeon and a brent goose during the day let alone at dusk. which i why i have formed a opinion that kent wildfowlers need to be more rigorous with there training otherwise it may end with there demise

[DNT]

Jasonsgold, I think most people would have thought that the true sign of a commercial enterprise would be anyone being paid for what they do. All KWCA officers are volunteers, every penny we make goes back into the running of the club and yes buying/leasing more land for our members. I think all clubs would have members at different levels of knowledge and ability and I certainly agree that every effort must be made to identify those that need more. I am confident that we are dealing with this very well in KWCA. The important thing we feel is to assist people into Wildfowling, how else will they gain experience. Our officers, mentors and wardens are a great team of guys working very hard to make sure the membership stays safe and operates the highest standards of behaviour at all times. We do not take the view of yesteryear of What's Hit Is History And Missed Is Mystery.

[TriBsa]

Just curious, but why do BASC and Kent Wildfowlers appear to share the same premises?:

The Kent Wildfowling & Conservation Association
c/o BASC,
Marford Mill,
Rossett,
Wrexham,
LL12 0HL

 

Wrexham with my admitedly poor geographical skills does seem some distance from Kent. Had a quick look at a few other clubs and couldn't see any with a similar C/O address. Surely when competing against other Clubs for land it could appear to landowners that Kent Wildfowlers were connected to BASC by more than membership and thus have an unfair advantage. Plus it must be a fair old treck in the morning to pick the post up.

 

Tom

Edited June 26, 2014 by TriBsa

[DNT]

Hi tribsa, have just got back with this mornings post. Seriously it's just a good professional address to use. We don't have club premises of our own and we do not wish to put any officers addresses out to the general public. Most correspondence from official bodies etc comes via email through the website these days. We have used that address for any other correspondence for a long time now. Very little comes through BASC. I suspect any affiliated club can do the same.

[Big Mat]

Hi tribsa, have just got back with this mornings post. Seriously it's just a good professional address to use. We don't have club premises of our own and we do not wish to put any officers addresses out to the general public. Most correspondence from official bodies etc comes via email through the website these days. We have used that address for any other correspondence for a long time now. Very little comes through BASC. I suspect any affiliated club can do the same.

I also suspect they can, but they don't which says alot about kent!

[washwildfowler]

Just curious, but why do BASC and Kent Wildfowlers appear to share the same premises?:

The Kent Wildfowling & Conservation Association

c/o BASC,

Marford Mill,

Rossett,

Wrexham,

LL12 0HL

 

Wrexham with my admitedly poor geographical skills does seem some distance from Kent. Had a quick look at a few other clubs and couldn't see any with a similar C/O address. Surely when competing against other Clubs for land it could appear to landowners that Kent Wildfowlers were connected to BASC by more than membership and thus have an unfair advantage. Plus it must be a fair old treck in the morning to pick the post up.

 

Tom

 

Because they all **** in the same bucket ..

 

And they try to tell us all that there is no conflict of interest..

 

I think you all know pigs fly don't you ...

[E.w.]

Hi tribsa, have just got back with this mornings post. Seriously it's just a good professional address to use. We don't have club premises of our own and we do not wish to put any officers addresses out to the general public. Most correspondence from official bodies etc comes via email through the website these days. We have used that address for any other correspondence for a long time now. Very little comes through BASC. I suspect any affiliated club can do the same.

Why wouldn't you use a p.o box like other users or is this because you have a direct line to Alan Jarrett ( you must admit this does smell a bit fishy does it not shame on you all, you will never be seen as real wildfowlers only thieves.)

[DNT]

Are some of you really that insecure?

EW, I rather hoped we wouldn't resort to those type of statements, to the best of my knowledge I haven't insulted anybody and we certainly haven't stolen anything. I understand feelings are running high in some quarters, but please remember the old legal advice. Never put on paper something you may have to explain in the future unless you have the evidence to support it.

[anser2]

Threats again DNT ?. There is another , but non legal phrase " is you cant take the heat get out of the kitchen " .

Edited June 26, 2014 by anser2