Westward Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I thought that pigeon watch was a hatsan escort supporters club , never missed a beat ,shoots all different load. More threads on hear about hat stands and the most offered gun for sale . A couple of people on hear have those Italian guns ,what are they called ? Bertrand ,no berany , no beretta , that's it . Harnser Wow! Italian shotguns. Surely that's a bit too adventurous for the average PW member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Some even have the really expensive Italian guns that do clever stuff such as firing both barrels at once ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 90% pin erosion? Really? Pins don't last forever in any gun As I said, not looking for an argument here but it is what it is. At least 90% and probably more of the fail to fire situations I see where the hammer has fallen are Miroku built O/Us. The only other guns that seem to have the problem with pitting & eroding of the firing pins are Kreighoffs. If you look at the pins through a glass on a Miroku or Browning with a few thousand shells fired, chances are they'll look like the summit of Scafell Pike, particularly the bottom one. Then do the same exercise on a well known Italian O/U of similar mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 As I said, not looking for an argument here but it is what it is. At least 90% and probably more of the fail to fire situations I see where the hammer has fallen are Miroku built O/Us. The only other guns that seem to have the problem with pitting & eroding of the firing pins are Kreighoffs. If you look at the pins through a glass on a Miroku or Browning with a few thousand shells fired, chances are they'll look like the summit of Scafell Pike, particularly the bottom one. Then do the same exercise on a well known Italian O/U of similar mileage. And I bet mostly bottom barrels of the Miroku? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 And I bet mostly bottom barrels of the Miroku? Yes indeed. I've only seen it once on the top barrel - and we both know why that is don't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Badly designed hammer only using about half of the springs potential. New pin and main spring fixes it cheap and easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 But of course none of this matters to the OP because the requirement is for a game gun which obviously won't see as many shots fired as a clays gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 If you look at the pins through a glass on a Miroku or Browning with a few thousand shells fired, chances are they'll look like the summit of Scafell Pike, particularly the bottom one. Then do the same exercise on a well known Italian O/U of similar mileage. Don't need glass on mine its nobbly as hell but every shell has gone bang...... doesn't even need a new pin or spring often just a few thou taken off on a lathe and good to go. but if a worn pin after thousands and thousands of shells is a big issue for you stay away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecash Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think there's a lot of "stir the pot, stand back and watch them go" devilment going on here. However if the only problems that have surfaced, due to a bit of mischief making, are 20 year old firing pin and spring related, then even "biassed" miroku owners have no worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think there's a lot of "stir the pot, stand back and watch them go" devilment going on here. However if the only problems that have surfaced, due to a bit of mischief making, are 20 year old firing pin and spring related, then even "biassed" miroku owners have no worries. I'm not stirring the pot, just pointing out that Mirokus aren't flawless as someone earlier claimed. The firing pin problems haven't surfaced because of mischief making by anyone - and the pins don't have to be 20 years old either. In fact the problem hasn't even "surfaced". It's a long standing issue which Miroku has never bothered to deal with. A friend had to have a bottom pin replaced on a 5 year old Browning with less than 5K rounds. His shooting buddy had his bottom pin fail the same year on a 17 year old 325. How long these pins last is a lottery, plain and simple. My advice is to measure the protrusion of the pins at regular intervals. Mirokus are durable, reliable, reasonably sound and workmanlike but if you put a lot of shells through them they will need pins and springs replacing more often than their main competitors. Like I said earlier, no need to take it personally, I'm not here to score points, but when it comes to items like guns that cost 4 figure sums of my hard earned, I try to base my decision as far as possible on facts rather than hearsay and/or accumulated brand loyalty. There are several reasons why I don't shoot Mirokus anymore but that's my choice to make and I'm not going to elaborate further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Like I said earlier, no need to take it personally, I'm not here to score points, but when it comes to items like guns that cost 4 figure sums of my hard earned, I try to base my decision as far as possible on facts rather than hearsay and/or accumulated brand loyalty. Miroku have sold many, many thousands of guns. Just how large is your sample? Your view does appear to be slightly jaundiced. It is relatively easy to pick fault with any brand, including Beretta, Krieghoff and Blaser for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Just how large is your sample? Does it matter? How large is your sample? You don't need to defend your choice because no one's attacking it. I would estimate that amongst AA and AAA class sporting clays shooters that I come across in southern and western England, no more than 10% shoot Miroku built guns. It's no criticism of Miroku or any of the satisfied owners thereof to say that these days the majority of serious sporting clays shooters acknowledge that there are better choices out there. Miroku has stood still whilst other mid range makers have continued to refine, develop, improve and upgrade their guns and options. Great for traditionalists of whom there are many, but think about this: According to a survey about 5 years ago of new shotgun sales in the UK, Beretta had 68% of the market with Browning/Miroku on 23%. I wouldn't be surprised if CG had overtaken BWM by now. 15 years ago Miroku was virtually the automatic choice and Berettas were seen as terribly avant garde but it's all changed now. At least it has in my neck of the woods. But let's not forget that the OP wants a gun for game shooting which is a quite different level of demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Westward - I have no wish to fall out over this. I have my view, which is not the same as yours. In the North West - Browning / Miroku and Beretta account for the majority of clay shooting. Incidentally,15 years ago - you could stick a screwdriver into the gap between the stock and action of a Beretta. They have moved with the times. A well known shooter in the North West was sponsored by Beretta, but kept using his rather ancient Miroku and still does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 I had an mk38 sporter. Lump of a gun, but nice to shoot. Bottom firing pin pitted, but was easily changed. The gun, being a 32" barrel, was also very front heavy, but was re balanced by putting some lead in the stock. However, the gun then weighed 9lbs !! Nice solid guns and fantastic value for money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Interesting was it mc? My 3800 balances right on the pin that's 32" but fc my 30" 524 is slightly nose heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Yes, a Teague sporter. Its well documented that the 32" are barrel heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strangford wildfowler Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Brilliant guns. I have 2 B525s and a citori. All are made by Miroku. If it's an older one just be sure to clean the barrels (and chambers) well after each outing. If you don't, they are prone to rust - the older ones are not chromed. Cheers for the advice I was speaking with the owner of the miroku he is now givi g it to me for free!!!!!!!!!! Happy days next time im in the pub with my da Ill by him whatever he wants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alycidon Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Had 3 Mirokus in the past, a 700, a 3700S and a 3700HS. All nice game guns. Just check the fit though, I found mine all shooting a touch left, my eye was over the back left hand side of the breech. The 687 is just as good a gun and mine fits me perfectly once the stock length was sorted. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungle The Bear Posted August 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Hi Guys thanks for all the advice, I have been working away si I havent been on the case - I should get back to some serious searching again, I have now spotted a few nice MK 70s, whats the diffrence is it just multi chokes and the Rib? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Not sure about the rib but at the time I had an MK60 the barrels were different, with the MK70 using the much heavier ones as fitted to Browning 425. The MK60, retro fitted with Teague thinwall chokes, was a much more lively and agile gun than the nose heavy MK70 with Invector chokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon123 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Not sure about the rib but at the time I had an MK60 the barrels were different, with the MK70 using the much heavier ones as fitted to Browning 425. The MK60, retro fitted with Teague thinwall chokes, was a much more lively and agile gun than the nose heavy MK70 with Invector chokes. Thought that the MK60 was a fixed choke gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Thought that the MK60 was a fixed choke gun? It is.... That's why the chokes are retro fitted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon123 Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 It is.... That's why the chokes are retro fitted! Aahaah, miss read the post!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 You even highlighted that bit in BOLD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Thought that the MK60 was a fixed choke gun? It is.... That's why the chokes are retro fitted! I also had my MK60 multi choked by Nigel Teague plus a slight cast on the stock. I subsequently had Nigel match the stock on my Beretta SP to the Miroku. Both good guns but without doubt for me the balance of the Miroku makes it my favourite gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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