Merseyside Firearms Unit

[evo]

i would give up shooting, than pay for that in 3 years time,

that is exactly the response the police want to hear,,"i,ll pack in shooting"

 

get a backbone and stand up for your rights,

 

don't fill it in,,if they want a report then let THEM pay,,saying you,ll pack in is exactly what the police want,,because believe me in 10 -20 years time,the queen will need to be your mother for you to get a licence for any firearm,

 

this is just the beginning of the END for all us shooters and its about time we stood up for the sport we love

 

atb Evo

[Westley]

The way that I am reading this, is that this was an APPLICATION and NOT a renewal. This may answer other Merseyside applicants who have not been asked for medical references when making a renewal. I think that BASC is collecting and collating evidence with regards to this issue, which is why they are saying that things will change in the not too distant future. The reports that I have read so far indicate that GP's themselves are reluctant to say that any person is suitable to have firearms in their possession. Problem being that no medical person seems willing to say that their Patient who is of sound mind today, will still be of sound mind tomorrow. Judging by past events, I can understand why.

[Scully]

its you that wants it. so pay for it.

From what I've heard, this is pretty much the opinion of the CPSA also.

[Scully]

The way that I am reading this, is that this was an APPLICATION and NOT a renewal. This may answer other Merseyside applicants who have not been asked for medical references when making a renewal. I think that BASC is collecting and collating evidence with regards to this issue, which is why they are saying that things will change in the not too distant future. The reports that I have read so far indicate that GP's themselves are reluctant to say that any person is suitable to have firearms in their possession. Problem being that no medical person seems willing to say that their Patient who is of sound mind today, will still be of sound mind tomorrow. Judging by past events, I can understand why.

It is also happening on renewals, not just new applications.

[Kes]

If it happens on my renewal, I will refuse it, permission to contact your GP, as, and when necessary is enough, more than enough for public reassurance - this is insurance for an incompetent (in the truest sense) police service.

Good old BASC - NOT

[HDAV]

After 30yrs in the prison service I`m used to it, but it makes sense for the applicant to pay and not the public purse.

No it doesn't liscencing firearm overship is a benefit to the public not the applicant...

 

Ho's on nhs paid by public funds, police paid by public funds in the last 4 years I have seen my gp once 6 years before that. Can I have a discount on my tax bill please?

[evo]

+ 1 for above,

 

I,ve seen mine once in the last 6 years also and that was because they told me to attend to fill out new forms as my details needed updating otherwise I would not have gone,

 

all my old doctors have now retired as well

 

why should WE have to pay for it to be done, I certainly wont pack in shooting because of it though that is for sure

 

atb Evo

[evo]

If it happens on my renewal, I will refuse it, permission to contact your GP, as, and when necessary is enough, more than enough for public reassurance - this is insurance for an incompetent (in the truest sense) police service.

Good old BASC - NOT

kes, what is your reason for not likeing basc

 

just curious bud

 

atb Evo

[webber]

How about this for an idea.

 

The Police Commissioners are elected to office.

Cast your mind back to when the first elections were held.

Tha'ts right, you like many couldn't be bothered to vote.

 

Lets explore the possible outcomes of thousands of SGC and FAC holders writing to their respective Police Commissioners expressing disgust at the charging policy now being implimented by his firearms licensing department. Request his personal stance on the issue and advise that you do intend to vote at the next election for a candidate who can demonstrate a positive attitude towards legally held firearms.

 

I'm sure that a wordsmith with time on his hands could compose a few different letters for PW members to copy and ammend as required.

 

I'm sure that BASC could make a list of the Police Commissioners names and relevant addresses available.

 

 

Thoughts and further suggestions on this thread please.

 

webber

[simjakcal]

to the OP did you list any medical history/concerns on you application for your sgc/fac ?

If you listed none I wonder why their concern for a medical report,if you listed that you've had depression/suicidal thourghts and you follow voices in your head,,i can understand !

[Scully]

How about this for an idea.

 

The Police Commissioners are elected to office.

Cast your mind back to when the first elections were held.

Tha'ts right, you like many couldn't be bothered to vote.

 

Lets explore the possible outcomes of thousands of SGC and FAC holders writing to their respective Police Commissioners expressing disgust at the charging policy now being implimented by his firearms licensing department. Request his personal stance on the issue and advise that you do intend to vote at the next election for a candidate who can demonstrate a positive attitude towards legally held firearms.

 

I'm sure that a wordsmith with time on his hands could compose a few different letters for PW members to copy and ammend as required.

 

I'm sure that BASC could make a list of the Police Commissioners names and relevant addresses available.

 

 

Thoughts and further suggestions on this thread please.

 

webber

Cracking idea, but you know as well as I do, it aint gonna happen. If only.

[malantone]

No it doesn't liscencing firearm overship is a benefit to the public not the applicant...

 

Ho's on nhs paid by public funds, police paid by public funds in the last 4 years I have seen my gp once 6 years before that. Can I have a discount on my tax bill please?

no certificate no shooting, who benefits?

 

Don`t know how old you are up until the age of 50 I was as fit a flea never saw the Doc. then a triple heart bypass, type 2 diabetes , an irregular heart beat, had a disc replaced in my neck.

So you see your just saving to pay for stuff in the future.

[ian g]

After 30yrs in the prison service I`m used to it, but it makes sense for the applicant to pay and not the public purse.

 

do you not think we get screwed over enough in this country with out geting screwed for more money its people like you that help things like this go through

 

maybe in a few years when this comes in i should jack my job in and get benefits and pay for it like that its a mugs game having a job these days

[BigEd85]

I fint this topic quite interesting, I find we Brits are just too tolerant of this kind of thing. It is my view that we should NOT have to pay extra for the police to get medical information. It would be open to abuse as well. They may ask you to pay for it then not even request the information for all we know (and pocket the money).

 

We must not agree with it, allowing them to do this with no reistance is dangerous, it will be a standard process on all applications and maybe renewals before we know it and then the doctors will increase the price due to the increase in requests coming through the post etc etc doom and gloom etc

 

Just my opinion!

[malantone]

 

do you not think we get screwed over enough in this country with out geting screwed for more money its people like you that help things like this go through

 

maybe in a few years when this comes in i should jack my job in and get benefits and pay for it like that its a mugs game having a job these days

could you explain what is it that is `Screwing you over`

I have paid my taxes all my life and continue to do so, I don`t think that is being `screwed over`, I don`t think paying my N/I stamp is either. I`m not keen on legal aid, and think the benefits system needs tightening up,

[STOTTO]

The object of keeping raising the bar is of course that fewer and fewer people will be able to get over it until eventually it becomes a more or less insurmountable obstacle for most! As an ex-pistol shooter in my experience I can tell you that all of the organisations that you expect support from will eventually roll over and capitulate while you are disenfranchised!

[Dave-G]

I can see the Polices` point of view, you want the certificate, you`ve got to supply the proof that you are a suitable candidate, hence referees and filling in the application form, why should the general public pay for a doctors letter so that you can have your shotgun certificate, its you that wants it. so pay for it.

Ah, the self funding theory.

 

It's the public that want criminals locked up - so the public pay plod to nick them, solicitors to represent them, courts to sentence them, and your lot to keep them locked up....

 

Where would YOU be if the public didn't pay what public safety warrants?

 

EDIT: We pay taxes for the government - including the police to act in our interests. Their aint many firearms ticket holders sapping public funds in criminal procedures.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Dave-G

[Kes]

kes, what is your reason for not likeing basc

 

just curious bud

 

atb Evo

EVO, there was long and arduous debate on here about the payment of the fee for a doctors note related to the grant of firearms certificates.

Davidbasc kept saying such a note was not required and to let BASC know, whether Member or not this could affect BASC Members so BASC suggested they would take this up with the relevant force.

You can see the response above from BASC and in my view its rather a lot less than they suggested to all the people who suggested BASC would act.

This seems like laissez-faire to me and those members affected can not expect support.

They also suggested that if you wrote back saying such an additional report wasnt necessary, it would not result in a refusal.

They seem now to be back tracking and, in my view abrogating their responsibility to all shooters - a bit of philanthropy here would not go amiss. I would willingly withdraw these comments if there was a justifiable reason for BASC not to help in this particular circumstance.

Then there was the General License reponses which left a lot to be desired, there have been other issues. So I'm leaving BASC and going SACS - I suggest that by voting with my feet, there might be an opportunity for BASC to see that on this issue there is some discontent which needs addressing.

BASC have suggested that extra doctors reports are also linked to licence fee review and seemingly dont want to 'rock - the - boat'.

I could have them wrong on this but there are no definitive posts to confirm I have mis-read this response.

[wildrover77]

could you explain what is it that is `Screwing you over`

I have paid my taxes all my life and continue to do so, I don`t think that is being `screwed over`, I don`t think paying my N/I stamp is either. I`m not keen on legal aid, and think the benefits system needs tightening up,

But what level of taxation is your fair share?

 

If the government decided everyone should pay significantly more tax but in return they would provide more free services would that be fair

[evo]

EVO, there was long and arduous debate on here about the payment of the fee for a doctors note related to the grant of firearms certificates.

Davidbasc kept saying such a note was not required and to let BASC know, whether Member or not this could affect BASC Members so BASC suggested they would take this up with the relevant force.

You can see the response above from BASC and in my view its rather a lot less than they suggested to all the people who suggested BASC would act.

This seems like laissez-faire to me and those members affected can not expect support.

They also suggested that if you wrote back saying such an additional report wasnt necessary, it would not result in a refusal.

They seem now to be back tracking and, in my view abrogating their responsibility to all shooters - a bit of philanthropy here would not go amiss. I would willingly withdraw these comments if there was a justifiable reason for BASC not to help in this particular circumstance.

Then there was the General License reponses which left a lot to be desired, there have been other issues. So I'm leaving BASC and going SACS - I suggest that by voting with my feet, there might be an opportunity for BASC to see that on this issue there is some discontent which needs addressing.

BASC have suggested that extra doctors reports are also linked to licence fee review and seemingly dont want to 'rock - the - boat'.

I could have them wrong on this but there are no definitive posts to confirm I have mis-read this response.

cheers kes, thanks for the reply,,, yes I remember that thread

 

atb Evo

[marktattoo]

I can see the Polices` point of view, you want the certificate, you`ve got to supply the proof that you are a suitable candidate, hence referees and filling in the application form, why should the general public pay for a doctors letter so that you can have your shotgun certificate, its you that wants it. so pay for it.

So what happens when you go to your doctor and the practice has a blanket policy of not getting involved in fac applications or secondly your doctor is a anti shooting person ? Conflict of interest springs to mind

[Kes]

You are only obliged to allow access to your personal medical information. You are not required to provide a separate medical report. Since BASC have not commented I would say, in reply to the police and in writing, that you are not obliged to provide a medical report under the current firearms legislation but you have signed confirming your willingness to allow your medical records to be accessed to provide any relevant information for the licensing process as this is required under current firearms legislation

See what happens but do it only in the full knowledge that if you are with BASC, support will be limited to the above comment - apparently.

[kingo15]

After reading the reply from the basc I have 2 trains of thought here. Either david has been made to look like a tit being told one thing by hq and then when someone has actually emailed in and asked they have been told something different.

Or we have just been fed a few lines from david hoping it would suffice.

Not having a dig at david personally as it takes some character to come on here and take the flak he does most weeks. Dont see any other organisation doing it.

[Kes]

With respect to David - the advice given by any member of an organisation, on behalf of that organisation, should be correct and in accordance with their policy. After a difficult post David said basically " get in touch", (what I have said above) and "we'll have a word, need to know wherever this is happening". He will, no doubt speak for himself - I suspect he's either busy with CLA and aftermath or taking a break - he certainly got that right !

[Bobba]

The silence from David is deafening. The reply the OP has received from BSAC does appear to be somewhat at odds with David's previous comments and perhaps that is why.