leeds chimp Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Thing is, you can recon all week and something changes in the local demographics, it's like all sporting shooting (I know, it's taboo with the gl) regardless what you pay, the guarantee isn't there. I couldn't be doing with the explaining and 'tyre kicking' afterwards. I know...been there and done that as a few on here know :| Exactly the reason I rarely take anyone out , I feel guilty as hell if they do not get some decent shooting , and I dont even charge ! as above...it makes me feel guilty when it goes belly up...watching a field for 2 days ...came to shoot it and the wind changed.... I don't have any perms other than my paid syndicate, I couldn't guarantee servicing them properly so not worth wasting farmers time so I'd happily pay someone £80 for their recon etc as it's time I just don't have I feel bad enough when I've invited someone to shoot and the birds don't show up! :lol: My trade is being retired . I take out people with me for free and I am happy to instruct newbies to the sport of pigeon shooting . I am of the opinion that charging for pigeon shooting is just a money making exercise and does nothing for the sport other than make it un reachable for many . Believe me if I wanted to I am in the postion to be able to charge for pigeon shooting ,but I have told you why I won't . Are we going to see a new breed of pigeon shooters who only take their guns out of the cabinet for a few paid days per year on the stubbles, just like the majority of game shooters . Pay your money and never mind what the country side is all about . Harnser top post..... Harnser, I hear what your saying, your a jolly nice fellow who takes people for free... But I do have a number of issues with your post, and we could argue this all day long from a number of different angles, but my time is too precious... And this is the primary point! You are retired and therefore you have lots of free time, thus making you attribute a lower value to it than someone with extremely limited free time, such as myself. If I have an hour of time, what do I spend it doing? Do I play with my kids, do I go shooting, do I work to earn some money... The list is endless... What value do I attribute to spending time with my family or going shooting, compared to you? Obviously I put a higher value on those things as I am able to spend less of my total time doing them, therefore to justify me not doing those other things I need to be compensated satisfactorily. This is the basic principal of work - compensation for time spent. Which brings me on to your next fallacy: "paid pigeon shooting does nothing for the sport" We are not all blessed with living in the countryside, hence there being such things as towns and cities. How do people that live in such areas access pigeon shooting? Because I can guarantee you if a random person that lives miles from the farm they are asking permission to shoot, just turns up and asks to have a go, the land owner will tell them to jog on, it's hard enough even for locals. Do you advertise your generosity of free days guided pigeon shooting, so the masses can come and have a go? I guess not?! So to say paid days do nothing for the sport is utter carp. It brings money into the countryside (all of ours is reinvested directly into shooting!) gives exposure to the sport and even gives less privileged people (in terms of geography) the opportunity to experience it. Which brings us on to your final ridiculous statement, that most game shooters do not care about the countryside. I am the first to acknowledge that some don't, but you will get this situation in every walk of life! If you actually participated you would know that many are farmers (the actual owners and guardians of said countryside), a huge proportion of game shooters do fantastic work maintaining habitats that don't only benefit game birds but song birds alike, and unfortunately, like myself, most other people put a value on their time and their resources so this work doesn't get done for free... So by your logic, a wildfowler who pays for a days shooting similarly does not care for the habitat in which he shoots?!? Because in my experience it is either to shoot quarry not available in their home area, to learn from a guide and to get under some birds, or simply to experience a different area. I too take people out for free, I've taken numerous guests both pigeon shooting and wildfowling. Am I going to spend that time doing the same service for a complete stranger for free... Unashamedly, NO! If we are carrying out the reconnaissance, and providing all of the services outlined previously, and are consistently putting guns under good numbers of birds, spending time teaching them, setting their gear up, giving them pointers, etc etc and people value that, I fail to see your issue. So, please can you show me your advert for unlimited free pigeon shooting, because I quite fancy a go! i use to take quite a few people out then got "dropped" on from a great hight...now i only take a few select out and would never dream of charging them a penny...but if they went behind my back.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Yeah im all good sir. Working hard just to save up for a days pigeon shooting ;-) Hope you ok? Classic comment. Tongue in cheek I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenhunter Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Finally got to the end of the posts on this thread! A very interesting one it is too! I'll start by saying that I'm pretty much against paying for vermin shooting and definitely siding with Harnser on this. I'm lucky to have a couple of farms to shoot pigeons and crows over, probably around 400 acres or so. It's enough for me and I have never looked for more. I do have other land with rabbits on and I do more bunny bashing than anything else. 400 acres may not be enough for some but when I see advertised, paid shooting 'over 13000 acres' for £90 a day I can't help but think that acquiring that much land is just for the money. It's obviously too much for one person to do an adequate vermin control job on. Then we are always hearing how difficult it is to get permissions.....no wonder is it? That amount of land could be available for others to have their own pigeon shooting, possibly accommodating at least another 20 shooters and probably a better job being done. Which is, after all, is what it's all about in the end! The enjoyment factor is a welcomed added bonus as we all enjoy a good blatt at a few testing birds. I would be only too pleased to share a pigeon hide...I'd enjoy the company. And when I have enough birds around to warrent it I'll be offering the chance. GH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Hi Just a few thoughts on this Why would I pay ? Over a free day Well there are many reasons If you work time is a premium commodity The guide does the work You can book and arrange time off in advance To shoot a new area Because there are no pigeons on your permission Or you haven't got a permission Just arnt lucky enough to get invited for free People (freinds) assume your a *** because you pheasant shoot and don't ask you If you don't like the guide or the shooting you don't have to go back Free invites inevitably cost or you can feel obligated or embaresed if its a good or bad day Your inexperienced and are prepared to pay a bit to learn and try there equipment before you invest in your own If you like the guide you can just book the next day and the next Free day invite you may get another ? Surprisingly a days pigeon shooting always fetches good money int basc and NGO charity auctions These are just a few reasons that I can see for paying for a days pigeon shooting I think it's great the members that take people under there wing and help them for free but there arnt enough Anyway enough rambling Just a few reasons as to why anyone would pay To protect crops All the best Of Edit bit of a postin glitch Nice post OF. Wise words, spoken with years experience by the sounds of it (Albeit you are only a young chap really). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dolphin Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 as greenhunter says interesting post with very different views as i have the majority of farms in my area to shoot over i take plenty of people outfor free but not a lot of pigeon around us i have also paid twice for shooting once on pigeon which was a decent day once on geese when the guide was just a conman who didnt get paid if people want to pay thats fair enough but the only thing i can happening is when all farmers realise how much money could be made the day might just come when people will have to pay to shoot crows also atb dolphin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted August 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 I know Matt Cole is shoot first then pay later. We did have a very poor session once and he discounted the day. If he didnt make a nice gesture like that then I wouldnt be returning on the 22nd of this month for an LFS outing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 There are many many people (1000's ?) who like to shoot pheasants or grouse, and while some may be very wealthy, don't have the ground on which to do so. What do you propose they do if you don't think paying to shoot is a good thing? There are many many people (1000's?) who like to shoot ducks or geese, but as they don't own the land around the coast what do you propose they do if you don't think paying to shoot is a good thing? There are many many people who like to shoot pigeon (1000's?) but not having any land on which to do so, what do you propose they do if you don't think paying to shoot is a good thing? There are many many people who like to punch holes in paper (1000's?) but not having the land on which to do so, what do you propose they do if you don't think paying to shoot is a good thing? There are many many people (1000's?) who like to shoot clays, but not having anywhere to do so, what do you propose they do if you don't think paying to shoot is a good thing? Whether you believe paying to shoot is good for shooting or not, what is the alternative for all those 1000's who have no option? Send them all round to Harnsers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted August 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 There are many many people (1000's ?) who like to shoot pheasants or grouse, and while some may be very wealthy, don't have the ground on which to do so. What do you propose they do if you don't think paying to shoot is a good thing? There are many many people (1000's?) who like to shoot ducks or geese, but as they don't own the land around the coast what do you propose they do if you don't think paying to shoot is a good thing? There are many many people who like to shoot pigeon (1000's?) but not having any land on which to do so, what do you propose they do if you don't think paying to shoot is a good thing? There are many many people who like to punch holes in paper (1000's?) but not having the land on which to do so, what do you propose they do if you don't think paying to shoot is a good thing? There are many many people (1000's?) who like to shoot clays, but not having anywhere to do so, what do you propose they do if you don't think paying to shoot is a good thing? Whether you believe paying to shoot is good for shooting or not, what is the alternative for all those 1000's who have no option? Send them all round to Harnsers? I think the idea is for more people to offer free days out instead of certain individuals/companies financially exploiting those less fortunate...(in a nut shell) I am for both as long as the charged day is value for money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 There are many many people (1000's ?) who like to shoot pheasants or grouse, and while some may be very wealthy, don't have the ground on which to do so. What do you propose they do if you don't think paying to shoot is a good thing? There are many many people (1000's?) who like to shoot ducks or geese, but as they don't own the land around the coast what do you propose they do if you don't think paying to shoot is a good thing? There are many many people who like to shoot pigeon (1000's?) but not having any land on which to do so, what do you propose they do if you don't think paying to shoot is a good thing? There are many many people who like to punch holes in paper (1000's?) but not having the land on which to do so, what do you propose they do if you don't think paying to shoot is a good thing? There are many many people (1000's?) who like to shoot clays, but not having anywhere to do so, what do you propose they do if you don't think paying to shoot is a good thing? Whether you believe paying to shoot is good for shooting or not, what is the alternative for all those 1000's who have no option? Send them all round to Harnsers? +1 Good post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) I think the idea is for more people to offer free days out instead of certain individuals/companies financially exploiting those less fortunate...(in a nut shell) I am for both as long as the charged day is value for money. Exploitation, value for money, etc, etc are all subjective and one persons value is completely different to another's, this is clear and well demonstrated throughout this thread.We too, only accept any money at the end of the day, however on occasion we have had people pay mid way through the day, and that they'd be happy to pay that for what they have shot already, we have even had guns pay more than the asking price (one in particular is a member of this forum!) as we had looked after him so well... Edited August 7, 2014 by Wildfowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 I'm all for people providing a GOOD service of paid for pigeon shooting. I have only ever paid for pigeon shooting once. Luckily for me, it was with Peter Theobald and I was happy to pay my £50 for my 102 pigeons. My cousin on the same field paid the same for his 150 pigeons. A good day. I have been bought a day (Christmas present) at Attleborough. The 'guide' was a complete liar and made a million excuses. The fee was £40 per person. My mate was with me and we shot just over 30 pigeons. It wasn't that we didn't shoot many that upset us, it was all the bull we were given. My mate wanted to knock the bloke's teeth out rather than pay. Thank god there are some honest people out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted August 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Exploitation, value for money, etc, etc are all subjective and one persons value is completely different to another's, this is clear and well demonstrated throughout this thread. We too, only accept any money at the end of the day, however on occasion we have had people pay mid way through the day, and that they'd be happy to pay that for what they have shot already, we have even had guns pay more than the asking price (one in particular is a member of this forum!) as we had looked after him so well... Aplogies Wildfowler, My post does read fairly harsh although still it is within context of the thread. Exploitation and Value for money are both evident in numerous posts. In all honesty, I am really glad you are posting on this thread. If you were closer to me I would love to have a guided day with you. I like your openness and honesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfowler Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Aplogies Wildfowler, My post does read fairly harsh although still it is within context of the thread. Exploitation and Value for money are both evident in numerous posts. In all honesty, I am really glad you are posting on this thread. If you were closer to me I would love to have a guided day with you. I like your openness and honesty. I didn't take it that way... My response was aimed at those that still fail to acknowledge there is a place for paid days!And BRNDL, if you're ever down my way, let me know and you are more than welcome to join me for a session on the pigeons or out on the marsh... FREE OF CHARGE! (That is a genuine offer!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 I think the idea is for more people to offer free days out instead of certain individuals/companies financially exploiting those less fortunate...(in a nut shell) I am for both as long as the charged day is value for money. I am also for both as long as the charged day is value for money. Is there enough of us with land to satisfy the needs of all those without, and to do it for nothing? Only the person paying can decide whether they're being exploited or not, and whether the cost of the day is value for money,and once they've made the decision they can't be 'exploited'. The decision was/is theirs. If they're not happy, it's up to them to make it known, whether it's 40 quid or 400, and then vote with their feet accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingo15 Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) Classic comment. Tongue in cheek I hope. Yes sir it was indeed. Cant remember the code for smiley faces so just used the one on my phone which dont come out very well Edited August 7, 2014 by kingo15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 I didn't take it that way... My response was aimed at those that still fail to acknowledge there is a place for paid days! And BRNDL, if you're ever down my way, let me know and you are more than welcome to join me for a session on the pigeons or out on the marsh... FREE OF CHARGE! (That is a genuine offer!) See BRNDL, two offers now so you have ample reason to head down to this lovely county :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRNDL Posted August 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) See BRNDL, two offers now so you have ample reason to head down to this lovely county :-) I just need a nice comfy bed to sleep in...and waking up with lovely, locally sourced full english breakfast, a pot of tea and then 2 days shooting! Edited August 7, 2014 by BRNDL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I think it will be a shame if paid vermin shooting becomes the norm, however it's the decision of the land owners if they decide to charge so it's something that people without permission will have to swallow.That's life and if someone wants to earn money for either just giving access to land or a fully guided day then why shouldn't they.If I was a land owner and I had the choice of either accepting money for permission or offering it free I know what I'd go for, I'm just grateful for the free shooting I have but I'm aware that it can be over in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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