SCOTLAND

[delburt0]

I think most english people worry that they will break away but we will still end up footing a big bill for it.

+1

[delburt0]

Put up with what? Delburto. What problem do you have with Scotland? Can you not accept what may happen? Do you not have any friends/family that have a different outlook from you? But still remain friendly. ATB

crack on join the euro just leave us in our queens country with our pound shilling an pence atb.

[FatFreddysCat]

Alex Salmond has with alacrity, by guile and ingenuity together with the assistance and incompetence of the former British Government secured the key to ‘Pandora’s Box’ and now finds himself within an ace of having her vessel of wondrous splendours placed at his feet. However the key once turned and the box opened, some of the delights hidden therein might come as an unwelcome and unpleasant surprise for him and the rest of our Scottish yes camp cousins!

Pandora's box contained all the evils in the world and when she opened the box and released them on the world, the only thing left in the box was hope.

[aris]

I think most english people worry that they will break away but we will still end up footing a big bill for it.

 

+1

 

Aris, you ain't cutting anybody loose. The voting public in Scotland will decide for you.

 

It seems there are some last-minute concessions being made to get a no vote - why? It seems it is as much of a decision on England and Wales as to how much effort they put into keeping Scotland in the union.

[mcleod]

Delburto, What's the Queen got to do with this discussion? As far as your pound goes while we share an Island, surely it would be better to have a common currency? Sorry I forgot its an English pound. Aris, we haven't seen this new deal. Sounds similar to Devomax to me, which should have been included in the ballot in my humble opinion. Interesting times ahead. I wish Aris and Delburto a good Seasons hunting. ATB Mcleod

[Gordon R]

Can the man be trusted? Some obviously think so. :lol:

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/450696/Scottish-first-minister-Alex-Salmond-warned-to-stop-twisting-truth-about-EU-membership

[aris]

Delburto, What's the Queen got to do with this discussion? As far as your pound goes while we share an Island, surely it would be better to have a common currency?

 

Scotland is welcome to use the pound - just like Zimbabwe is welcome to use the US$. I don't see why an independent Scotland should have any say in Britain's central bank though.

[four-wheel-drive]

Would it not be funny if they said yes and joined the EU and we came out what would happen then

[sako751sg]

Would it not be funny if they said yes and joined the EU and we came out what would happen then

You should stop thinking too much.

[chacotawas]

I would like the union to continue i think were better together, that said if i lived in Scotland and had the opportunity i would vote yes great chance to get from under the heel of this London centric **** the rest, country we live in.

 

seriously consider moving north of the boarder if i was a bit younger

Indeed.

[Nial]

Do not underestimate the sentiment and strength of feeling regarding Westminster politics.

 

Scotland has been over-represented in Westminster, if they're doing something wrong the Scottish MPs have to shoulder their share of the blame.

 

Independence isn't going to suddenly turn them into governing gods....

 

This has just been shared with me on Facebook, makes interesting reading....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I am a Norwegian who has been living in the UK for ten years and I understand the SNP looks at Norway as an example of how Scotland will be after independence. I have a number of friends in Scotland, love a good whisky and think the Scottish Highlands rival the beauty of my native country.

 

However, when pro-independence Scots look to Norway as a role model it’s obvious that they only see what they want to see and largely ignore the facts. It took us a long time to accumulate the wealth we now enjoy, and it wasn’t just a result of oil. Remember also that Norway voted on its independence in 1814, and the financial depression in the years that followed was the worst on record.

 

Our GDP per capita was consistently lower than Sweden, Denmark and indeed the United Kingdom every year since records began in the early 1800s until 1974. The few things that kept us going were unity, national pride and stupidity.

 

If Scots are willing to go through decades of hardship in order to build their own country, then fine, but no-one should assume that independence is a silver bullet that will automatically transform Scotland into Norway.

 

It is also worth considering the downsides of living in such a wealthy country as consumer prices in Norway are astronomical. VAT stands at 25 per cent, you pay £9 for a pint in the pub, and the price for a new, five-door Vauxhall Corsa is £20,490 (in the UK the same car is £9,600).

 

This is fine if you are a top earner, but I am sure no-one in Scotland believes that becoming independent will automatically lead to an accumulation of enormous personal wealth for the entire population.

 

Finally, if an independent Scotland succeeds it will be because it is totally united. When Norway wanted independence 99.5 per cent of the population voted Yes.

 

I don’t see that sort of unity in Scotland today, and for that reason alone there should not be a referendum at all.

 

Haakon Blakstad

[aris]

It wont be the end of the planet if Scotland leaves the United KIngdom,it`s only 90 years since the Irish Republic left in a far more acrimonious break.

 

I agree - I don't know what everyone is getting so worked up about. As with any divorce there will be much acrimony - and not much good will between the two nations. I for one will think twice before spending my hard-earned with a Scottish firm if the vote goes YES. England is Scotlands largest trading partner after all.

 

Have to wonder what will become of all those call centre jobs in Scotland from UK companies who guarantee a UK call centre

[chacotawas]

 

The Yes campaign have stated it will be concluded in 18 months and this is what the Yes supporters believe. Anything else is just dismissed as scaremongering and lies from Westminster.

 

It is really quite sad that honest discussion and debate has been in the minority, it is tabloid politics at it's very best. The No campaign has largely been challenging the promises of the Yes side, so it is perceived as being negative and designed to scare people, if it doesn't suit the Yes agenda it is dismissed.

 

Although I am admittedly partisan in wanting a No vote, watching some of the Yes campaign unfold has been quite scary, fascism lurks just below the surface. Not necessarily from the official Yes camp, but the real hardcore nationalists are sinister and there is a lot of them and I can see nothing being done to contain that.

You talk utter balderdash.

[kdubya]

Would it not be funny if they said yes and joined the EU and we came out what would happen then

at least if they become independent and join the euro I could do something with any left over dosh should I have visited the land of tenants and the giro,unlike now when a jock £20 note is looked upon in the same terms by those you are trying to give it to as a handshake from an ebola sufferer.

 

KW

[Kes]

The question to ask is why Salmond is arguing for Independence. Its perhaps because its topical, popular and what will happen to him as a result. I have never known anyone so personally ambitious. Alex Salmond = naked ambition. Whatever the Scots decide he will have his place in history. Those who remain may rue the day but he wont care - another Tony Blair or maybe Robert the ...........

Edited September 7, 2014 by Kes

[Laird Lugton]

I hope they do get independence - bye bye labour!

 

Bad luck, not true:

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/01/scotland-labour-majority-win

 

http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour-doesnt-need-scotland/

Off you go then. All you have to do is tick the box that says 'yes'. Just remember the Glasgow airport bombing of 2007 and don't come crying when you want support in future.

 

That's one bonus of many

 

Really? What support did we get then?

[Laird Lugton]

Its all very ironic really we or a lot of us want to get out of the EU as we do not like other people telling us what we can or cannot do yet we do the same to the Scottish people I would like to see a more federal system where each country England Scotland Wales and NI has control of most things that goes on in peoples daily life health education etc then we would have a small government to deal with the big stuff defence banking etc etc.

 

+1

I don't know why he thinks they would perform any better up here.

 

Nial.

and when you look at the social rejects in the Scottish parliament it makes me shudder to think of a "yes" victory.

[Laird Lugton]

Hate to say it but we need the Jocks and they need us, a marriage or ‘Union’ of mutual convenience forged in the blood of our forefathers that both sides rail against but has distinct advantages for those on either side of the divide. This union has worked with time honoured distinction in peace and war. The United Kingdom, long may she endure.

 

Hear hear. The problem with any marriage or union is that when one half is supposed to be grateful for the other half keeping them in a nice way which isn't necessarily strictly true resentment grows that leads them to separate over petty grievances.

[Laird Lugton]

If there is a yes vote the politicians in Scotland will be just as corrupt and just as distant from the man on the street as they are now. I shouldn't wonder if they were even more so given their new found powers.

People in England in pretty much any region other than the South East feel the same way about Westminster as the Scots do. In fact as a rural dweller I feel remote from my own district council!

I agree with everything you say.

 

However the Scots have a chance to change the status quo about how they are governed. The one thing I have noticed is that people from all walks of life have joined the Yes campaign, but they all want different things out of independence. Some envision a very socialist state, a breakaway tory group want a rightwing Scotland.

 

One thing can be guaranteed though, an independent country won't be able to keep them all happy.

I think this campaign has been very divisive and the effects will be felt for generations, regardless of a yes or no outcome. There is a growing bitter divide in Scotland and with a lot of the rhetoric coming from the Yes side I am not surprised at all if the other home nations take the hump at the whining Scots.

 

What has become very apparent is that the campaign for the Yes side has really become a vote of dissatisfaction for what we have now, but as a few have said that isn't unique to Scotland. A Yes vote doesn't change that, there is nothing in the Yes campaign that will fundamentally change anything in our politics or how government will work, it is just rank opportunism to get people to put a cross in that box.

 

My postal vote has been completed and sent and I very much hope that the outcome is a No. It will be very close and with a very big voter turn out and I hope that sends a powerful message to the establishment and the other people of the UK that there is a huge amount of dissatisfaction and change needs to happen.

 

A more federated approach to government would work well I think.

 

Well said, my postal vote is away too. That's if it actually counts!

The problem is there is a no vote will it not just end up like the EU vote if they do not like the answer they just do it again in a few years until they get the one that they wont.

 

I hope the UK government puts their foot down on another one.

[ben0850]

I would hope the Scots vote No, if I was farming north of the border I would be very worried about how CAP would be affected going forward...

Should the Scots vote Yes then fair enough, my big reservation is that this whole debacle is more about Salmonds ego than Scotlands best interests...

[Laird Lugton]

Wonder if it will ****** up the Rugby tournaments, Scotish Shire going it alone if it happens.

 

 

 

Here is one of the nubs of the problem. Scotish [sic] Shire as you so quaintly put it. Scots see themselves as being treated as living in a mere county of England.

[islandgun]

 

Scotland has been over-represented in Westminster, if they're doing something wrong the Scottish MPs have to shoulder their share of the blame.

 

Independence isn't going to suddenly turn them into governing gods....

 

This has just been shared with me on Facebook, makes interesting reading....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I am a Norwegian who has been living in the UK for ten years and I understand the SNP looks at Norway as an example of how Scotland will be after independence. I have a number of friends in Scotland, love a good whisky and think the Scottish Highlands rival the beauty of my native country.

 

However, when pro-independence Scots look to Norway as a role model it’s obvious that they only see what they want to see and largely ignore the facts. It took us a long time to accumulate the wealth we now enjoy, and it wasn’t just a result of oil. Remember also that Norway voted on its independence in 1814, and the financial depression in the years that followed was the worst on record.

 

Our GDP per capita was consistently lower than Sweden, Denmark and indeed the United Kingdom every year since records began in the early 1800s until 1974. The few things that kept us going were unity, national pride and stupidity.

 

If Scots are willing to go through decades of hardship in order to build their own country, then fine, but no-one should assume that independence is a silver bullet that will automatically transform Scotland into Norway.

 

It is also worth considering the downsides of living in such a wealthy country as consumer prices in Norway are astronomical. VAT stands at 25 per cent, you pay £9 for a pint in the pub, and the price for a new, five-door Vauxhall Corsa is £20,490 (in the UK the same car is £9,600).

 

This is fine if you are a top earner, but I am sure no-one in Scotland believes that becoming independent will automatically lead to an accumulation of enormous personal wealth for the entire population.

 

Finally, if an independent Scotland succeeds it will be because it is totally united. When Norway wanted independence 99.5 per cent of the population voted Yes.

 

I don’t see that sort of unity in Scotland today, and for that reason alone there should not be a referendum at all.

 

Haakon Blakstad

Nial that is food for thought 99.5% for in Norway we are struggling at 50/50 , ouch

 

 

Hear hear. The problem with any marriage or union is that when one half is supposed to be grateful for the other half keeping them in a nice way which isn't necessarily strictly true resentment grows that leads them to separate over petty grievances.

are that explains all the racist remarks then

[MartynGT4]

I think most english people worry that they will break away but we will still end up footing a big bill for it.

 

And even if they don't, it's still going to cost us in one way or another.. the full extent of which should become clearer in the next few days when the 'no' pill gets it's final coat of sugar.

 

If they do decide to split, I suspect the reality of being a new and independent country might not be all that cosy once the cries of 'freedom' have all died down and Salmond is sat on his throne without a clue what to do next. I just hope we don't do something stupid like agreeing to monetary union in a bid to keep our nukes at Faslane!

[Lampwick]

Bearing in mind the premise for a yes vote is selfish ie they (the yes voters) feel they will be better off!

 

I'm still not sure how we (the remaining Uk) will fare? Why will we be worse off?

 

Or will we not flourish and be better off? Therefore a win win?

Edited September 7, 2014 by Lampwick

[Laird Lugton]

I am totally unclear as to why "trouble" would follow any close result.

 

The rest of the UK have to accept the ballot box, or do some only accept it if the vote goes their way.

 

Seasoned politicians up here who have been campaigning for the union have said they have seen nothing like it. "Yes" rent-a-mobs turning up to drown them out, intimidation etc. Near me the local landowner put up two better together posters and a major junction. They were ripped down within 3 days by, one can only assume, "yes" supporters. There are some very unsavoury types who have crawled out of the woodwork for the "yes" campaign.

 

Let's just say that I do not have a "UK:OK" sticker in my car window as I have a genuine fear that my car would be vandalised.

As for the rest of it the numbers have never stacked up financially.

 

Another poster hit the nail on the head that if it all goes wrong the people will be the ones to suffer not the Politicians

 

Figgy

 

Do the numbers not stack up? Both sides numbers have been discredited so much by either side that people can't make a decision using their head as no one trusts the information. Therefore I suspect they are now using their hearts to decide as the swing to "Yes" shows.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Laird Lugton