shaun4860 Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 So If you get pulled over whilst they are doing random breath tests would you refuse? And they randoms around xmas time. OR, they tell you they think you are driving eratically and want you to blow into his device, are you going to refuse? It's a 12 month minimum ban for refusing a breath test. I brought this up as Timps did but you didn't answer him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onatangent Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 I will check and take my own bar of soap on a rope just in case. There is so much reading out there to do that unless your collar is being felt its hard to be water tight, especially after a custodial lol. More research needed and again will happily test it out should the time arise. One thing to consider though would be how laws and acts interact with each other and which carries the greater weight. Rights to privacy vs. Rights to be inspected. Who's right is more important? Obviously its the one that fills the coffers...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onatangent Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) Due course must persist. Why must you be breathalysed. Was I giving you reasonable doubt by, driving carelessly, speeding, slow driving, vomiting on my lap, alcohol on my breath. Refusal is not an admission of guilt is it? It is presumed guilt. Comes back to if you have nothing to hide then why decline. Equally I have nothing to hide so where is the reasoning behind your actions against me? Crime prevention....closer to having a life intervention. Not saying anarchy prevail either. As I said it comes back to what have you got to lose, licence in this case, and are you prepared to say stick it sunny here is my licence. Destructive, non compliant but just my view. Edited September 12, 2014 by onatangent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 If you have done nothing wrong then why refuse to be dipped? Either way until someone actually refuses to be dipped nobody knows for certain what the outcome will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onatangent Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 If you have done nothing wrong then why refuse to be dipped? Either way until someone actually refuses to be dipped nobody knows for certain what the outcome will be. Why refuse, equally why accept it. You are not a criminal so why be treated as one I feel. Be interested to hear if any cases of refusal and how it went. Searching for info. Did learn hmrc have an open write to march in everywhere they want, bit like an open search warrant. Joy. Will have to kick my doors in and tow me away lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Watched a documentary about something or other and HMRC were driving their van around a lorry park randomly dipping wagon tanks, whether the driver was present or not, Where they couldn't get in through the cap they cracked open one of the fuel pipes. They actually left one dripping but we never found out what happened about that (white diesel) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onatangent Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Guessing they have really good liability insurance and are proficient automotive mechanics to do so ensuring the vehicle is left safe and serviceable. They do have more powers than I envisaged. Still not complying and will give it a go. Car locked, keys somewhere pleasant and watch criminal damage ensue to dip my car, which will be quashed as it would be willful obstruction, oh the joys. As I said I have nothing to hide, just don't agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onatangent Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 I found this and liked it in the 'Best Answer'; https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101228161016AAbCHQ8 I can accept defeat but they will never take my freedom, unless the arrest me as will undoubtedly be the case. Dont ask you dont get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 They used to dip our horse box as well, except when they dipped the fresh water tank, never got rid of the taste. If you don't use it you're safe if you do, you are breaking the law. HMRC have quite a lot of powers, most of which my good lady ( who is a chartered accountant) disagrees with mainly because of the errors they make with peoples tax returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onatangent Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) Its an eye opener for sure at the minute, being going through police forums, general car forums and so on. Im even on the HMRC website again to try and get my head around their specialist investigations bods who carry out the road side tests. Not getting very far, beats working though, if only I wasnt the boss. Here I am at the minute for post detection http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/hcosmanual/hcos4000.htm and http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000164&propertyType=document I quit, lock me up and throw away the key. Edited September 12, 2014 by onatangent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted September 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Onatagent enjoying your arguments but I cant help noticing your address. Are you on the run ? B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timps Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 HMRC have very far reaching powers, doesn’t give them the right to do what they want though. On the road you are screwed, but if they come on site and say we want to dip your tanks and you say no you get arrested. However you ask where is your correct PPE have you had a site induction etc? Then it gets fun, HSE and HMRC can fight amongst themselves because my refusal to let you on is now also backed by an act of parliament so wilful obstruction can take a running jump unless you have powers to absolve me from my legal responsibilities. so just make sure at your house you have very stringent health and safety laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onatangent Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 No I'm not on the run.....yet lol. Had a read on some farmers forums ref hse implications of hmrc and complaints procedures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalmac Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Watched a documentary about something or other and HMRC were driving their van around a lorry park randomly dipping wagon tanks, whether the driver was present or not, Where they couldn't get in through the cap they cracked open one of the fuel pipes. They actually left one dripping but we never found out what happened about that (white diesel) Lol causing a massive multi car pile up and multiple fatality up the road, but at least they got their duties paid... You see that on all those police and customs programs... The people who have a slightly bold tire get ribbed completely and the narrator going on like the police saved the world, and the youth who steals a car, batters a elderly lady and causes a 20 car and heli police chase ending in a crash gets off with a £5 fine as he's from a 'broken home'. Sorry, thread de-railing rant over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onatangent Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 so true though unfortunately. Also would be nice to hear the narrator say something most are thinking. Like cheesus that's a bit harsh, what a plonker going to town on him instead of the heroic murmurings as you said we constantly hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Been doing reading and there are confusions to be had but I found this, it suits my argument so thought I would paste it in; Act can only have the force of law when agreed to. This is a maxim of law. Which basically means it isn't law unless there is agreement of the parties. (Contract). A drivers licence, Hunting Licence, etc would be proof of contract. Basically what it boils down to is this. 1,. Criminal Code - Deals with Crime. Murder, Theft, Assault, Property Damage etc. 2. Acts - Contract Terms. 3. Bylaws - Corporate Policies, which are only applicable to corporate employees. Many people lump all the above under "law" which is not the case. There are major differences which is why they have different classifications. You are very very confused and risk misleading/confusing others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onatangent Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 (edited) thank you for being so constructive, baaa. Move on sheeple nothing to see here. But seriously I am sure people are confused as it is how, where and why things come into place. No explanation and expected compliance without question. Ask a question or oppose your fellow man then its obstruction. Guilty until you can prove your innocence. It would be better if hmrc could stop, dip and then prove where the fuel came from ie stolen sources etc instead of trying to claim lost taxes. Would be a bit more productive. Edited September 14, 2014 by onatangent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washman Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 I know of a guy (and im not telling) who has a Range Rover and has an extra tank under his dog crate in the boot and has a change over switch in the dash area runs on claret gets dipped in the correct tank hey presto its white, cool or what done it this way 20yrs been dipped 3 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onatangent Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Good man. I have read its perfectly legal to carry red in a separate tank for heaters etc as long as its not connected to the engine. If they fancy they will just steal your car and take it to pieces if suspected and then you can make claims in court for them to put it back together. Fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 guest1957 is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Wonder if it is possible to take the red dye out. Maybe a resin bed filter would do it. but the cost of the filtration and replacement of the resin on a regular basis would probably outweigh the savings. Would be an interesting exercise to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilR Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Back in the 60's I rode a Lambretta scooter and got pulled over and the tank dipped, all they found was a 2 stroke mix of petrol and Castrol R oil. I asked what they thought they might find and they said Methanol. If I recall correctly I think a gallon of 2 star was around 1/6d a gallon and Methanol would've been treble that or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Good man. I have read its perfectly legal to carry red in a separate tank for heaters etc as long as its not connected to the engine. If they fancy they will just steal your car and take it to pieces if suspected and then you can make claims in court for them to put it back together. Fun. You say you are self employed? Do you drive a knackered old van and work in the "herbal remedies" line of business? You seem to be a pain in the backside just for the hell of it, are you part of the freeman movement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onatangent Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) No I am not, judge not little man. Bend over and take it, that is your right to do so as you feel it to be. It is also an offence to remove the dye from the fuel. Circumvention will not be tolerated they tell you. Edited September 16, 2014 by onatangent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onatangent Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 guest1957 is correct. Steady on, you will wear the keyboard out at that rate. People are free to do with what they will. I merely give my opinion and not suggest to act under my direction. If you feel inclined to follow a train of thought/opinion then enjoy that moment at it is really your only freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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