Steppenwolf Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) Can someone define the like for like 1-1 situation. Does changing say .17hmr to a larger cal count as a 1-1? I thought it was the same caliber as well but about 2 years ago police gave me a straight swap from a 308 down to a 243. So I think if you go up in calibre it's increasing allowance but if going down youmight get away with one to one. I can see somebody has cleared it up: " Think of it this way. A variation fee is only payable if you increase the number of firearms you have. Swapping a .17hmr for a .308 would be free." Edited November 28, 2014 by Steppenwolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 No! We should fight any increase to gun licensing fees. We benefit nothing from the licensing system. It is there only so those not involved in shooting can sleep easy at night. And to keep the police happy. Whenever there is any sort of shooting incident there is usually a serious failure by the police - why should we suffer because of their inefficiency? Personally I feel we should fight for zero fees as this is a service the public wants but we do not need. It would cost the public 38p each for free licences - I'll pay that but no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 No! We should fight any increase to gun licensing fees. We benefit nothing from the licensing system. It is there only so those not involved in shooting can sleep easy at night. And to keep the police happy. Whenever there is any sort of shooting incident there is usually a serious failure by the police - why should we suffer because of their inefficiency? Personally I feel we should fight for zero fees as this is a service the public wants but we do not need. It would cost the public 38p each for free licences - I'll pay that but no more. why should we pay for a bad service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 There is not going to be any prospect of a cost free licence. We have a modest fees increase offer on the table, with a significant step forwards in terms of an increase in efficiency If we ignore it, short term win, no fees increase at all... But as soon as there is a change in government we will be hit with a £200+ licence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) No! We should fight any increase to gun licensing fees. We benefit nothing from the licensing system. It is there only so those not involved in shooting can sleep easy at night. And to keep the police happy. Whenever there is any sort of shooting incident there is usually a serious failure by the police - why should we suffer because of their inefficiency? Personally I feel we should fight for zero fees as this is a service the public wants but we do not need. It would cost the public 38p each for free licences - I'll pay that but no more. Let us know how your renewal goes when you send in your 38p payment. Edited November 28, 2014 by bostonmick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 No! We should fight any increase to gun licensing fees. We benefit nothing from the licensing system. It is there only so those not involved in shooting can sleep easy at night. And to keep the police happy. Whenever there is any sort of shooting incident there is usually a serious failure by the police - why should we suffer because of their inefficiency? Personally I feel we should fight for zero fees as this is a service the public wants but we do not need. It would cost the public 38p each for free licences - I'll pay that but no more. I pretty much agree with this.....but........like charging for parking at hospitals once the precedent was set it ain't ever going back to free parking! We might as well see what we can get for the inevitable increase, I would like a better service and double the term of the certificate for the monetary increase suggested, rather than pay even this increase (let alone pay more) for the same carp service and licence term! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan. Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 Imo if they want to increase fees they should prove what they do with this increase tbh. They should get the BASC to note the current faults in the system (not themselves doing it) and the do another audit in 3 months time to see if they have used the increase properly. If they haven't then sure that stops any further increase in the future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 We have a modest fees increase offer on the table, with a significant step forwards in terms of an increase in efficiency I don't mind paying for a service David that is up to speed, but paying for a third rate one in the case of Durham (& a few others) cuts to the bone. You know it, & so does the rest of the cert holders in Durham that nothing will change. Have you any update on the meeting BASC had with Durham, & if so, what exactly is going to improve.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 Just seen on the news the massive police deployment to protect in store public safety by controlling the rioting by shoppers caused by retailers holding "Black Friday" sales, are the police going to demand these high profit making privately owned business chains increase their contribution for the extra police resources required?........nope!.......but a relatively small shooting community are being required to pay an increase in fees for so called "public safety" firearm certification and the carp service we currently receive from the police...........more selective victimisation and double standards methinks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 Re Durham - new CI seems OK, waiting for confirmation of the points we raised with him at the meeting. Their voluntary medical check will continue, but remember it is voluntary, and must not delay applications / renewals one way or the other, AND remember that if they police want a medical check any point AFTER grant its up to them to pay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 Re Durham - new CI seems OK, waiting for confirmation of the points we raised with him at the meeting. Their voluntary medical check will continue, but remember it is voluntary, and must not delay applications / renewals one way or the other, AND remember that if they police want a medical check any point AFTER grant its up to them to pay David it should be up to them to pay before grant also, they want the information so they should pay for it cheers Evo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 I have no issue with what you say, but at the moment the rules are clear on post grant, but not on pre grant. That's what we are still working on David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) Could the change in circumstances across the water add more leverage to the fee increase arguement here, to the point where a compromise is obtained to the detriment of shooters rights? Possibly the justice community here are on the side of the shooting community, i don't know if that's the case across the water. It seems the BASC and the PSNI are not on good terms at the moment. Maybe not all the MLA/s are useless. Committee members also voiced concern over the length of time taken by the PSNI to process some applications and the fact that a ten-year licence was not being considered. Members also highlighted a serious breakdown in relationships between the PSNI’s Firearms and Explosives Branch and stakeholders in the shooting and gun trade organisations, saying the issue must be addressed. The PSNI has failed to respond to several invitations to discuss licensing issues with elected representatives in recent months. Edited November 28, 2014 by ordnance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenwolf Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 There is not going to be any prospect of a cost free licence. We have a modest fees increase offer on the table, with a significant step forwards in terms of an increase in efficiency If we ignore it, short term win, no fees increase at all... But as soon as there is a change in government we will be hit with a £200+ licence Is BASC campaigning to get any loosening in the laws such as 10 year certificates or 1to1 dealer variation or even a guaranteed speedy turnaround in licesing processing or are we agreeing to more dosh out with nothing to show for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 Apparently HM Inspectorate of Constabulary are shortly to carry out a 'thematic' inspection of forces' firearms licensing procedures. It will be interesting to se what the result is, but even if the result is dire, will it have the desired effect? Licensing authorities appear to be a law unto themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossberg-operator Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 Is BASC campaigning to get any loosening in the laws such as 10 year certificates or 1to1 dealer variation or even a guaranteed speedy turnaround in licesing processing or are we agreeing to more dosh out with nothing to show for it?+1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 Thanks for the update David. Re Durham - new CI seems OK, waiting for confirmation of the points we raised with him at the meeting. Which points are getting raised then.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 Yes there are other issues such as easier variation that we will still campaign on, yes there should be an improvement of service not least of all through the online system that's coming in. Re Durham specifically, the issues that you guys have raised, concentrating on the medical forms and the need to properly risk assess. The number of responses to the consultation is increasing at a good rate I am pleased to say, but please take part if you have not done so already David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deputy dog Posted November 29, 2014 Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 Yep even I think the price rise is pretty fair and not over the odds in increase cost. Better then I was expecting if I'm honest. DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 seems a fair price to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norfolk dumpling Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Whilst I keep on banging on about NIL fees (but realise impossible) I think when BASC etc talk in term of modest increases this suggests to all involved we are the ones who need or ask for licensing. We dont or at least 99% of us don't. We are the most law abiding people in the UK and more of a benefit than a drain on police resources. We should continue to fight any increase for the reasons stated (by all of us) which our various organisations continue to ignore. Please BASC/CA point out the positives we do, point out why the authorities want licences, point out how law abiding the vast majority of us are and point out how is is police cockups that gave rise to Whitehaven, Hungerford, Dunblane etc etcetc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted November 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Nothing has been ignored. I agree that the vast majority of licence holders are among the most law abiding citizens in the UK, if we weren't then of course we would not be granted a licence in the first place. The licencing authorities are very aware how lapses can and have caused problems in the past. And BASC have consistently made that point, ie that shooters should not be punished for this, better management of the licencing process is the issue. This all goes back to a key point, there needs to be a fair and consistent delivery of the licencing process. In many, indeed most police authorities this is the case, but there are a handful where this is not so. We see within the constabulary areas where the applications and renewal process runs smoothly, where there are no additional forms or processes added there are no public safety issues, so it proves the existing protocols as set down in the Home Office guidance are fit for purpose and should be followed by all. To be blunt there will always be a cost for licencing, but the cost must be fair and not be over inflated due to inefficiencies or additional process that have no statutory basis. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 But David BASC the Police have asked for a massive hike in the price of a certificate citing the need to increase income because of cuts to police budgets, then why are BASC not pushing for and the police not accepting the obvious savings that can be made by increasing certificate term from 5 years to 10 years thereby saving 50% costs in a stroke?...............It would not compromise or affect public safety in the slightest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominicrobed Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 But David BASC the Police have asked for a massive hike in the price of a certificate citing the need to increase income because of cuts to police budgets, then why are BASC not pushing for and the police not accepting the obvious savings that can be made by increasing certificate term from 5 years to 10 years thereby saving 50% costs in a stroke?...............It would not compromise or affect public safety in the slightest! Totally agree with this , dose sound like BASC are not trying for this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy835 Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 i think a cert should be for life, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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