Channel 5 Benifits: can't work, won't work

[Lord Geordie]

So those on low income and who pay no tax or NI contributions are not a drain? I would advocate they are a total drain in that they are making the country unsustainable, low wages exacerbated by the use of mass immigration to artificially lower wages means the country is not receiving the amount it needs to spend, those who advocate low wages and the use of immigrants who apparently are a benefit to us! are short sighted ( er we forget that once they are old or ill they will need supporting after having put naff all in of course thanks to earning next to nowt) and remember one day you too will need the NHS a transport system maybe a need for our defences to be put to use on your behalf,and eventually of course a pension, except that maybe one day it wont be there thanks to low wages and the eagerness to take out take out more than is going in?

 

KW

I am very sorry I don't meet your standards Keith! Unfortunately the job I have pays a **** wage! I didn't personally set the tax thresholds. Infact under the previous levels I DID pay tax for many years!

 

As for pensions, I was under the impression by the time I get to a pensionable age I will not be entitled to a pension anyway! They are supposed to be stopping the state pension.

 

I make no appology for being in the current predicament. I am working, and to me thats better than sitting on my backside.

 

I understand making companies pay a living wage rather than a NMW would mean more money going back into the system! But there are a lot of small companies out there who would go under if they had to pay a living wage!

 

The place I work for, only last year laid off a number of dept managers and thinned out the staff. Now they have section leaders taking on managerial roles at section leader rates "50p" an hour more than me!

 

They are yeat again looking for MORE cuts. To save money! If they had to pay a living wage, I suspect the company would have to close a number of stores.

 

That would be more people CLAIMING benefit, instead of paying taxes!

 

I would LOVE a higher rate of pay. But as it is I am relatively unskilled so can not teach, I am not an engineer, A doctor etc. We underlings only get NMW.

 

I had the common sense to only have one child, I work to provide for Myself and my Son.

 

I could be sat on MY ***** claiming but I don't.

 

I am not going to get into an argument over this so will just take on board what you say, Carry on with MY life. And wish you all the very best!

[timmytree]

so, I'm self employed, I get a letter through the post a few times a year asking for national insurance contribution etc.... theres a nice statement at the end saying if I dont pay it wont be eligible for healthcare or benefits.

 

So how are people who havent worked at all eligible? makes me sick!

I understand how you feel, I've earned good money, worked long hours, been made redundant 3 times, always paid my way where possible but now I'm older I refuse to work 60 hours a week or drive 400 miles in a day.

I think immigrants should get the healthcare but if they aren't British we should be able to recoup the costs from their country of origin. Don't forget we also have health tourism, many people from abroad who come here for expensive treatment even though they could afford to pay in their own country. What do we do?

The NHS pays for care for those who need it apparently regardless of what they've paid in, more draconian rules could mean deserving people not getting basic healthcare. As for pensions? well my pension pot has dropped like a lead balloon and will provide me with diddly squat as an income so I face having to work til I'm 70 or finding a younger woman to support me.

I honestly don't want to try and train another one!

[Bluebarrels]

Lord Geordie I have never met you and probably never will

 

However you come across as a genuine/hard working decent sort of chap to me well done mate,could do with a few more like you around BB

[kdubya]

I am very sorry I don't meet your standards Keith! Unfortunately the job I have pays a **** wage! I didn't personally set the tax thresholds. Infact under the previous levels I DID pay tax for many years!

 

As for pensions, I was under the impression by the time I get to a pensionable age I will not be entitled to a pension anyway! They are supposed to be stopping the state pension.

 

I make no appology for being in the current predicament. I am working, and to me thats better than sitting on my backside.

 

I understand making companies pay a living wage rather than a NMW would mean more money going back into the system! But there are a lot of small companies out there who would go under if they had to pay a living wage!

 

The place I work for, only last year laid off a number of dept managers and thinned out the staff. Now they have section leaders taking on managerial roles at section leader rates "50p" an hour more than me!

 

They are yeat again looking for MORE cuts. To save money! If they had to pay a living wage, I suspect the company would have to close a number of stores.

 

That would be more people CLAIMING benefit, instead of paying taxes!

 

I would LOVE a higher rate of pay. But as it is I am relatively unskilled so can not teach, I am not an engineer, A doctor etc. We underlings only get NMW.

 

I had the common sense to only have one child, I work to provide for Myself and my Son.

 

I could be sat on MY ***** claiming but I don't.

 

I am not going to get into an argument over this so will just take on board what you say, Carry on with MY life. And wish you all the very best!

I'm not trying to argue or belittle at all, all I am attempting (perhaps poorly) to do, is get people to recognise that whilst they eagerly bash those on benefit, they support a philosophy of low pay along with the shortsightedness and lack of long term sustainability it brings.

 

 

KW

Edited January 28, 2015 by kdubya

[timmytree]

Problem is those on low will outstrip those on high so if less goes in than comes out what happens then the tooth fairy?

 

KW

Ok, so what is your solution to the problem? I'd like to know, so would 95% of the population and every political party.

[kdubya]

Ok, so what is your solution to the problem? I'd like to know, so would 95% of the population and every political party.

Employ more pay more spend more, yes goods would be more expensive but it would all be relative and above all sustainable,thanks to input beating output, but thanks to our hell bent rush to make the rich richer regardless of the effects, it will never happen, so dont bleat when one day your expected pension is not paid.

 

KW

Edited January 28, 2015 by kdubya

[timmytree]

Employ more pay more spend more, yes goods would be more expensive but it would all be relative and above all sustainable,thanks to input beating output, but thanks to our hell bent rush to make the rich richer regardless of the effects, it will never happen, so dont bleat when one day your expected pension is not paid.

 

KW

I already know my paid for pension is screwed. Employ more, pay more, spend more. Easy to say but how do we achieve that? Rhetoric is very easy. What political party is going to deliver your solution?

[Blunderbuss]

Slighty off topic as I wont deny there are serious issues with our benefits system which need overhauling but......

 

The very title of the program would dissuade me from watching it. This is cynical TV designed to provoke and enrage. Channel 4 & 5 are full of this kind of voyeuristic trash. Even worse are programs like the undateables, hoarders etc, which are cruel reincarnations of the Victorian freak show.

[gemini52]

The biggest drain on the benefits system is pensioners,

 

Just saying,

 

Yes maybe so,what about the money doled out for child benifit,in my humble opinion it should only be paid out to the first three kids,after that pay for them yourself,having a large family should not be the responsibility of the state.

[timmytree]

Yes maybe so,what about the money doled out for child benifit,in my humble opinion it should only be paid out to the first three kids,after that pay for them yourself,having a large family should not be the responsibility of the state.

True, so how many "rich" families refuse to claim child benefit? How many wealthy pensioners refuse the state pension or heating allowance?

[shaun4860]

Yes maybe so,what about the money doled out for child benifit,in my humble opinion it should only be paid out to the first three kids,after that pay for them yourself,having a large family should not be the responsibility of the state.

Just a question but why is there such a thing as child benefit? (genuine question)

 

[saab6110]

With a lot of these programs most of the people get free dental care, so why do most of them have very few or no teeth at all?

[Davyo]

Icant watch these programs as its like a busmans holiday as I deal with these people on a daily basis.I delt with a Samalian couples claim today with 8 kids,claim was just shy of £26,000 combination of WTC/CTC.Husband earned £8000 so none tax payer and she was asking me if she could claim for a tutor for her children.Quite shocking as this did not take into consideration Child Benifit.So altogether their HH income will be in the region of £40,000 per annum with not a penny paid in UK tax.

Don't get me wrong it's not all just foreigners,our lot are streets ahead of working the system for example I complianced one today.Lady phones up adding a child,5th child on the claim,child is genuine but the surname is the same as the x partner who suposidly left the HH over 3 yrs ago but 2 children n have been added to the claim with his surname within the period👶👶.Another example,guy tries to declair £1780 as self emp net profit so gets max working tax credits.I check for his tax return,low and behold SE have no record.We stop his payments from 06/04/14 and ask for every penny back.He gets on the phone wanting to know where his money is.I ask him for a UTR ( unique tax reference ),he replies " what's one of those"?I reply "it's what you get when you register as self employed,you have told WTC that you are self employed but you clearly are not" phone goes dead.

The biggest claim I have had was £32,000, but on average I see claims between £12000- £20000 & I get a 1% pay rise over 5 yrs.Imagine how I feel when I deal with these types on a daily basis and they are getting more than my income it morally wrong seeing UK taxpayers money wasted like this.

 

Forgot to add ' had to get a language line at £75 a shot also'

Edited January 28, 2015 by Davyo

[Vince Green]

Icant watch these programs as its like a busmans holiday as I deal with these people on a daily basis.I delt with a Samalian couples claim today with 8 kids,claim was just shy of £26,000 combination of WTC/CTC.Husband earned £8000 so none tax payer and she was asking me if she could claim for a tutor for her children.Quite shocking as this did not take into consideration Child Benifit.So altogether their HH income will be in the region of £40,000 per annum with not a penny paid in UK tax.

The biggest claim I have had was £32,000, but on average I see claims between £12000- £20000 & I get a 1% pay rise over 5 yrs

 

Forgot to add ' had to get a language line at £75 a shot also'

This happened in Holland till the population said enough and they cut all handouts to immigrants, the result was a mass exodus, many came here

 

Just a question but why is there such a thing as child benefit? (genuine question)

 

Thats a very good question, why indeed?

Edited January 28, 2015 by Vince Green

[Lord Geordie]

With a lot of these programs most of the people get free dental care, so why do most of them have very few or no teeth at all?

:lol:

 

Lack of self respect!

[overandunder2012]

 

It wont work, if you put the minimum wage up then the produce goes up exponentially (it takes more than one person to make\sell something), therefore the new increased wage won't buy as much as the old lower wage did.

 

People need to be given an incentive and that is removed when you offer more money on benefits than in work, apparently there are plenty of jobs about....I keep hearing that the "immigrants" keep taking them, what I do see is people doing jobs that people on benefits think they're too good to do.

if the job dont pay a living wage you shouldn't be surprized nobody bothers

Just a question but why is there such a thing as child benefit? (genuine question)

 

to prevent child poverty

[rbrowning2]

Icant watch these programs as its like a busmans holiday as I deal with these people on a daily basis.I delt with a Samalian couples claim today with 8 kids,claim was just shy of £26,000 combination of WTC/CTC.Husband earned £8000 so none tax payer and she was asking me if she could claim for a tutor for her children.Quite shocking as this did not take into consideration Child Benifit.So altogether their HH income will be in the region of £40,000 per annum with not a penny paid in UK tax.

Don't get me wrong it's not all just foreigners,our lot are streets ahead of working the system for example I complianced one today.Lady phones up adding a child,5th child on the claim,child is genuine but the surname is the same as the x partner who suposidly left the HH over 3 yrs ago but 2 children n have been added to the claim with his surname within the period.Another example,guy tries to declair £1780 as self emp net profit so gets max working tax credits.I check for his tax return,low and behold SE have no record.We stop his payments from 06/04/14 and ask for every penny back.He gets on the phone wanting to know where his money is.I ask him for a UTR ( unique tax reference ),he replies " what's one of those"?I reply "it's what you get when you register as self employed,you have told WTC that you are self employed but you clearly are not" phone goes dead.

The biggest claim I have had was £32,000, but on average I see claims between £12000- £20000 & I get a 1% pay rise over 5 yrs.Imagine how I feel when I deal with these types on a daily basis and they are getting more than my income it morally wrong seeing UK taxpayers money wasted like this.

Forgot to add ' had to get a language line at £75 a shot also'

Thank you for post real life examples which look worst than a TV program. What's that saying if you can't beat them join them, makes you think. You get my respect having to work with these issues every day not a job I would have wanted to do.

[poontang]

if the job dont pay a living wage you shouldn't be surprized nobody bothers

 

 

 

There has always been low paid work (factory/shop/agricultural etc), but people managed to get by.

 

They lived within their means, and without access to easy credit people had to learn to budget.

 

When I grew up it there was a stigma attached to being unemployed and people made every effort to find work...any work. People on low incomes had access to council housing, young couples could put a roof over their heads for a reasonable sum and plan for the future, try doing that now.

If there was work available it was advertised in the local job centre, no agencies in those days, you simply walked in and saw pretty much every job available in the local area, phoned the employer and arranged an interview. It really was that simple.

If you did well at school you could go on to further education, sometimes academic, sometimes to tech college depending where your skills lay. Only the really bright went on to university. If you weren't particularly academic you went into the more manual types of work, sometimes you'd get a proper apprenticeship...you didn't have the opportunity to study the arts or media at university. There wasn't the sense of entitlement there is today where so many think that as they've got a **** degree from a **** university they're somehow 'above' working on a production line or in a shop.

 

If you worked hard at school, and made the effort you could get on in life. If you didn't bother and didn't work then don't expect everyone else to pick up the tab...that was how we grew up!!

 

Of course things have changed and the reasons are many and varied, but the bottom line is we've created a generation who believe they're worth more than they often are and who want something for nothing...and they want it now.

It always looks good in the figures if we have a large percentage of students going on to university, but how many actually use their degree? Half of them can hardly read or write!!

High unemployment? Good for Labour as the unemployed are a hefty part their core vote. Not so good for the Tories, so hey let's create a load of zero hours/part time/low paid jobs...that'll look good on the figures.

Free/easy/cheap credit? Well that's great for everyone isn't it?...even if they can't afford it.

Nobody wants low paid zero hours contract work? No problem, we've got a vast source of unskilled foreign labour on tap.

It's no good moaning about a few benefit cheats playing the system when billions of pounds are syphoned away from the exchequer by big business.

It's no good saying the NHS needs an extra £2bn a year when we send nearly £12bn abroad each year in 'foreign aid'.

 

And it's no good telling the thicko in year 11 that a degree in media studies is going to get him the job of Director General at the BBC!!

Edited January 29, 2015 by poontang

[Deker]

Posted Today, 12:13 AM

Deker, on 28 Jan 2015 - 4:34 PM, said:

 

It wont work, if you put the minimum wage up then the produce goes up exponentially (it takes more than one person to make\sell something), therefore the new increased wage won't buy as much as the old lower wage did.

 

People need to be given an incentive and that is removed when you offer more money on benefits than in work, apparently there are plenty of jobs about....I keep hearing that the "immigrants" keep taking them, what I do see is people doing jobs that people on benefits think they're too good to do.

if the job dont pay a living wage you shouldn't be surprized nobody bothers

 

 

But that's the thing, people do bother but it's easy to say that "the immigrants are taking all of the jobs", what they really mean with that statement is "I'm not doing that, I'm above it!", unfortunately my other halfs family has four of these types they're currently aged between 28 - 42 years old and have only worked around 1 year each since leaving school, they have managed to produce 12 kids in this time which we have to provide for these know all of the scams to get more benefits (including kicking partners out on a regular basis to keep the single parent payments)

 

As for child allowance I don't get it either, I can't afford a Ferrari so I don't have one, so why do people who can't afford kids have them (and why should we pay)

 

Deker

[Deker]

 

There has always been low paid work (factory/shop/agricultural etc), but people managed to get by.

 

They lived within their means, and without access to easy credit people had to learn to budget.

 

When I grew up it there was a stigma attached to being unemployed and people made every effort to find work...any work. People on low incomes had access to council housing, young couples could put a roof over their heads for a reasonable sum and plan for the future, try doing that now.

If there was work available it was advertised in the local job centre, no agencies in those days, you simply walked in and saw pretty much every job available in the local area, phoned the employer and arranged an interview. It really was that simple.

If you did well at school you could go on to further education, sometimes academic, sometimes to tech college depending where your skills lay. Only the really bright went on to university. If you weren't particularly academic you went into the more manual types of work, sometimes you'd get a proper apprenticeship...you didn't have the opportunity to study the arts or media at university. There wasn't the sense of entitlement there is today where so many think that as they've got a **** degree from a **** university they're somehow 'above' working on a production line or in a shop.

 

If you worked hard at school, and made the effort you could get on in life. If you didn't bother and didn't work then don't expect everyone else to pick up the tab...that was how we grew up!!

 

Of course things have changed and the reasons are many and varied, but the bottom line is we've created a generation who believe they're worth more than they often are and who want something for nothing...and they want it now.

It always looks good in the figures if we have a large percentage of students going on to university, but how many actually use their degree? Half of them can hardly read or write!!

High unemployment? Good for Labour as the unemployed are a hefty part their core vote. Not so good for the Tories, so hey let's create a load of zero hours/part time/low paid jobs...that'll look good on the figures.

Free/easy/cheap credit? Well that's great for everyone isn't it?...even if they can't afford it.

Nobody wants low paid zero hours contract work? No problem, we've got a vast source of unskilled foreign labour on tap.

It's no good moaning about a few benefit cheats playing the system when billions of pounds are syphoned away from the exchequer by big business.

It's no good saying the NHS needs an extra £2bn a year when we send nearly £12bn abroad each year in 'foreign aid'.

 

And it's no good telling the thicko in year 11 that a degree in media studies is going to get him the job of Director General at the BBC!!

 

I think you've just hit the nail on the head, the whole post but especially the part in bold

 

Edit: Thinking back it probably started with political correctness in schools and no longer allowing competitions where kids won and lost, instead everyone won, why should someone strive to try harder and be the best when the reward was the same, fortunately a few of the kids still wanted to better themselves and this can be seen by the kids today that come out of school and want to do well...but as for the others, well why try harder when someone else can pick up the slack?

Edited January 29, 2015 by Deker

[Davyo]

Just a little insight into 2hrs of my day,19 claims totalling £134,074, four of which where high value claims of £14,000 plus.Thats just 2hrs out of my 6hr day!!!

[keg]

I would look at scrapping universal benefits. It would need some serious looking at first but as much as i dislike Katie Hopkins, her comment to Jordan was relevant along with the poster that made the point about child benefit.

 

We means test most benefits, why not child heating allowance etc. I know some child benefit is already means tested but what a debacle that is?

 

Joint income of £49 k each= £98, you get some of it paid. Single income of £60k = £60k and you don't..crazy

[shaun4860]

Child heating allowance?

 

[keg]

Not sure if burning them is legal

 

I know we used to send them up chimneys!

[overandunder2012]

true but now days their rent is about 70% of their wages before you even go near bills in days gone by rents were not as high and they had council houses back then

 

 

There has always been low paid work (factory/shop/agricultural etc), but people managed to get by.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2015 by overandunder2012