mick miller Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Strange how people worry about ft.lbs on a rifle but with a shotgun they are not bothered. I think the hmr is a good little round fast and flat ideal if you have alot of rabbits and come across Fox within a sensible distance. If you are going out just for fox then take the cf Corrected for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Strange how people worry about ft.lbs on a rifle but with a shotgun they are not bothered. I think the hmr is a good little round fast and flat ideal if you have alot of rabbits and come across fox. If you are going out just for fox then take the cf Sorry chap but I see blanket statements along these lines all the time, that is NOT correct. I go out JUST for the fox many a time in peoples gardens, shooting them anything from about 20-100 FEET (6-30Metres). Why should I take a centrefire if I'm waiting to ambush them 25 yards from the chicken house, why do I need a centerfire to shoot a fox that has taken up residency in the Hay Barn? Just why should I be taking a centrefire in these and many other situations when I'm going out JUST for the fox?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Sorry chap but I see blanket statements along these lines all the time, that is NOT correct. I go out JUST for the fox many a time in peoples gardens, shooting them anything from about 20-100 FEET (6-30Metres). Why should I take a centrefire if I'm waiting to ambush them 25 yards from the chicken house, why do I need a centerfire to shoot a fox that has taken up residency in the Hay Barn? Just why should I be taking a centrefire in these and many other situations when I'm going out JUST for the fox? ? I knew what you meant, LB; it's not necessary to write a thesis, it's only a post and you can't cover every 'if' and 'but'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 My information tells me it is around 70 ft/lb at 200 yards down range. Certainly not a foxing range for hmr but smaller quarry in the right conditions, no problem. With regard to the figures, +1. The same energy as a 22LR sub sonic at a tad over 100 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) Whatever way it's dressed up its a 100 yard - max calibre on Fox if shot placement is spot on. however there are better tools for the job. I think we can all agree on that. But it will do the job Edited March 21, 2015 by stevo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadbreakfast Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Sorry chap but I see blanket statements along these lines all the time, that is NOT correct. I go out JUST for the fox many a time in peoples gardens, shooting them anything from about 20-100 FEET (6-30Metres). Why should I take a centrefire if I'm waiting to ambush them 25 yards from the chicken house, why do I need a centerfire to shoot a fox that has taken up residency in the Hay Barn? Just why should I be taking a centrefire in these and many other situations when I'm going out JUST for the fox?? To be fare if I only had peoples gardens or barns to go I wouldn't have a rifle. unless your shooting from a window or your farmer don't mind his life stock being shot in the next barn When We go out we cover some ground and when you come across a lamp shy wise old fox you don't get many chances to get them close. Saw three foxs run off last year after being shot with a hmr in the chest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 To be fare if I only had peoples gardens or barns to go I wouldn't have a rifle. unless your shooting from a window or your farmer don't mind his life stock being shot in the next barn When We go out we cover some ground and when you come across a lamp shy wise old fox you don't get many chances to get them close. Saw three foxs run off last year after being shot with a hmr in the chest Ah, but you're a lucky chap having"some ground" to cover, poor old Dekers only has his neighbor's back garden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 One fox running off after being shot with a .17 HMR is too many. I do care what runs off after being shot - it happens, but its still stomach -churning and to be prevented with every shot we take, as far as humanely possible I feel duty bound to ensure anything I shoot, preferably doesnt know I'm there and is alive one moment and dead the next. With a fox e.g., that means its a shotgun at very close range or a CF,. This is my personal baggage but I would never shoot a fox with a .22 rimfire - unless caged/trapped and with a .17 HMR, never, unless very close sub 80 yds . For those 'in-between' situations I also now have a .17 hornet and if that doesnt do the job I expect it to, it'll be for sale on here. Being a shooter is a serious responsibility not only for the safety of others but also especially for the humane dispatch of your quarry. When that is not a priority for me I'll give up. Before I get the usual criticism, you do as you wish - this is my way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welsh1 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 One fox running off after being shot with a .17 HMR is too many. I do care what runs off after being shot - it happens, but its still stomach -churning and to be prevented with every shot we take, as far as humanely possible I feel duty bound to ensure anything I shoot, preferably doesnt know I'm there and is alive one moment and dead the next. With a fox e.g., that means its a shotgun at very close range or a CF,. This is my personal baggage but I would never shoot a fox with a .22 rimfire - unless caged/trapped and with a .17 HMR, never, unless very close sub 80 yds . For those 'in-between' situations I also now have a .17 hornet and if that doesnt do the job I expect it to, it'll be for sale on here. Being a shooter is a serious responsibility not only for the safety of others but also especially for the humane dispatch of your quarry. When that is not a priority for me I'll give up. Before I get the usual criticism, you do as you wish - this is my way. You say you would never shoot a fox with a .22 unless caged, yet you are happy to use a shotgun at very close range. To open up another can of worms for everyone the .22 is very capable of despatching a fox ,but as I have said before,know your capabilities and use sensible ranges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) 17 HMR is a capable round a short distance on most quarry. Interestingly I saw some research data for urban (very close) deer control the other day and the HMR did quite well. I'm not suggesting it as a deer round and in fact I don't really like it due to ammo issues and a few other thing that Im not going to start an argument over. But as an occasional fox killer it's ok there are better tools but if the HMR is in hand and the fox is in range I say shoot it. Edit to correct spelling mistakes. Edited March 22, 2015 by welshwarrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 17 HMR is a capable round a short distance on most quarry. Interestingly I saw some research data for urban (very close) deer control the other day and the HMR did quite well. I'm suggesting it as a deer round and in fact I don't really like it due to ammo issues and a few other thing that Im not going to start an argument over. But as an occasional fox killer it's ok there are better tools but if the HMR is in hand and the fox is in range I say shoot it. You are?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 To be fare if I only had peoples gardens or barns to go I wouldn't have a rifle. unless your shooting from a window or your farmer don't mind his life stock being shot in the next barn When We go out we cover some ground and when you come across a lamp shy wise old fox you don't get many chances to get them close. Saw three foxs run off last year after being shot with a hmr in the chest There lies the difference, for some this is work, and some of us have a pretty extensive collection of tools and take out the most appropriate for each job. So, you saw foxes run after being shot with a HMR, I've seen them run with a centrefire as well! Please note my comment below posted earlier in this thread! As above, the HMR is very capable of stopping foxes when used within its capabilities, and the capabilities of the shooter (you can say the same about any quarry/calibre). My last was a dog just short of 20lb on Thursday eve, went down on the spot with a heart shot at 100 yards, 17g V Max. For all those who say it is not allowed in their regions, it may well be worth noting the New Home Office Guide list the HMR as acceptable for Fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) You are?? Typo corrected. Edited March 22, 2015 by welshwarrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Typo corrected. Nay probs. I knew what you meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 the thing is a chest shot fox with one at sensible range is just a dead fox running, much like deer can. You only realise this if you have a hound that finds them usually inside the first bit of thick cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 the thing is a chest shot fox with one at sensible range is just a dead fox running, much like deer can. You only realise this if you have a hound that finds them usually inside the first bit of thick cover. don't agree with that statement for one bit, in my experience the little round in many cases doesn't have enough energy to act hydroponically to do enough damage for a reasonably quick kill or just doesn't expand as it should do no matter what the calculations say. I shot a fox in the boiler room once and the round went in between two ribs and out between two ribs, it missed the heart but went through both lungs. Luckily I finished it with a head shot as it ran around in circles licking its wound. I have had deer run a bit but the chest cavity damage was massive resulting in instant blood loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 don't agree with that statement for one bit, in my experience the little round in many cases doesn't have enough energy to act hydroponically to do enough damage for a reasonably quick kill or just doesn't expand as it should do no matter what the calculations say. I shot a fox in the boiler room once and the round went in between two ribs and out between two ribs, it missed the heart but went through both lungs. Luckily I finished it with a head shot as it ran around in circles licking its wound. I have had deer run a bit but the chest cavity damage was massive resulting in instant blood loss. What's growing plants got to do with shooting foxes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 What's growing plants got to do with shooting foxes? I think he means hydrostatically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 In the US they use a .17HMR on wild pigs. They use a .17 hornet on coyotes at long range. Everyone has the way they do things and are happy with that, based upon their hard won experience. If your experience conforms to the best humane standards and you act accordingly then thats fine and what you do is fully justified. My experience means no .22 and limited (sub 80 yds) .17 HMR for fox. If you havent got a .222/.22-250/or .223, try them, experience them before you suggest a .17 HMR is great foxing tool out to 150yds, and if 3 run from you after being shot, be prepared to review your justification for using that calibre in that way. I'm no different to you guys - i would rather give up than wound more than I have already (as part of gaining experience), especially if a calibre change would solve it. Just my personal view not advice to anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 In the US they use a .17HMR on wild pigs. They use a .17 hornet on coyotes at long range. Everyone has the way they do things and are happy with that, based upon their hard won experience. If your experience conforms to the best humane standards and you act accordingly then thats fine and what you do is fully justified. My experience means no .22 and limited (sub 80 yds) .17 HMR for fox. If you havent got a .222/.22-250/or .223, try them, experience them before you suggest a .17 HMR is great foxing tool out to 150yds, and if 3 run from you after being shot, be prepared to review your justification for using that calibre in that way. I'm no different to you guys - i would rather give up than wound more than I have already (as part of gaining experience), especially if a calibre change would solve it. Just my personal view not advice to anyone else. Who the heck is saying a HMR is a 150yd foxing caliber. Like any caliber, be it 50 BMG or .22 LR they are all capable of cleanly killing a fox. It is for the shooter to use each caliber within its limits. All this moral nonsence and bigger is better is just plain daft, there is a time and a place for every caliber to be used kill a fox. What the heck happened to common sence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Who the heck is saying a HMR is a 150yd foxing caliber. Like any caliber, be it 50 BMG or .22 LR they are all capable of cleanly killing a fox. It is for the shooter to use each caliber within its limits. All this moral nonsence and bigger is better is just plain daft, there is a time and a place for every caliber to be used kill a fox. What the heck happened to common sence. For me, common sense is not to set out to shoot a fox with a .22 rimfire. I tend to set out with the .223 and as I have said above - do as you and your experience dictate - my views are just that and not advice- that would be a gross presumption. There are others on a number of threads who suggest a .17 HMR is good for fox out to 150yds - there are videos on u tube showing exactly that but I wouldnt and yes, couldnt do that. Sorry if thats not commonsense - just ignore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69chris Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 i took a mate (well, a mates dad but iv known him well for over 30 years so..) out yesterday whos suffered a stroke and lost the use of an eye and arm, was a keen shooter back when and now and again ill go grab him and we go out for a plink, this time i had found 2 steel plates at work, bout 7" diameter and around 3.5mm thick for him to have a visual target, something he could see move with a hit this was at 40yds, .22 with winnies sub.... the eagle eyed among ya will notice a few 'deeper' dents, had a few cci mini mags so he fired those too but all in all we can use that one again we moved back to 70yrds for the next plate, hmr this time with 17grain....... obvs it drilled straight through, but while we were there we wondered how far away it would need to be before it wouldnt go through. at 100 yards it was still going through but not as cleanly and leaving a 'bit' of the target peeled back 120 yrds defeated the plucky lil bullet and it couldnt make it through and went into dent making mode i dont know how tough a foxes head is but, for me, 100yrds max is a comfy shot which i know will do the business, and iv no doubt better shot could easily extend that distance, i just know i wouldnt want the bloody thing hitting me at any distance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 if people want a rifle just for close range fox but can't have a center fire. Why do they get a HMR??? There are better alternatives. A WMR for instance. I feel the HMR has got this trendy reputation. as someone else put it ashot a "200 yard rifle" when it's clearly not. Another small point. A mate of mine has a HMR where as I favour the wmr. We have lots of discussions and he always starts to quote muzzle velocity and muzzle energy. But he has chopped nearly 4" off the barrel. Surely that's got to make some difference over 100 yards And drop his power off even more so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Stevo i had 4" chopped of my 223 so it would be easier shooting out of the motor and was told as an average you will loose approx 50ft speed per inch chopped off.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevo Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Stevo i had 4" chopped of my 223 so it would be easier shooting out of the motor and was told as an average you will loose approx 50ft speed per inch chopped off.. yeah that's what I have just read , I have just ben having a read up , ballistics is not my strong point haha I spose its really not the end of the world when you have 1300 ftlbs ( give or take ) to play with . but how would that translate to the hmr with 245 ftlbs ? what would that be at 100 and 200 yds compared to a standard 22" barrel , at be same range ?? not just wondering that's all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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