Scully Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 By fighting most of it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scutt Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 we do not just trade with EU they own us .how many companies are actual owned by the british we don't even own our facilities TO LATE ME THINKS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I, like many, havent the detailed knowledge to decide without a debate (a proper one). Still it didnt stop the Scots who had - no facts, no certainty, no currency, massive debt, insignificant trading and political clout and a massive public sector. I don't want to make the decision on prejudice alone. I also dont like leaps in the dark (I'm not Scots) but am up for a risk with a better future resulting. I think the Scots had facts, they were just based on Oil of which the price dropped through the floor. Sturgeon scares me more than fish face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88b Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I've just got back from a week in Italy and I'm still trying to get my head round it - I have no idea how the country manages to run itself or get by. It's on its knees skint and there's no productivity because they have the work ethic of the Greeks and the benal mindless bureaucracy of any Euro nation. I spent the week thanking the gods that we didn't get further drawn in or join the Euro. It's been an eye opener. Exactly, we spend a fair bit of time in Italy . Your average italian is considerably worse off than your average Englishman . There is a lot of corruption ( just like the EU ) nothing happens quickly. From what I understand there is a huge black economy just like Greece. As others have said we buy more from Europe than we export , they won't want to stop selling to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think the Scots had facts, they were just based on Oil of which the price dropped through the floor. Sturgeon scares me more than fish face. I agree - a conviction politician with her head up her backside, doesnt see much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armsid Posted April 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) poontang is correct the vote i made in the ,70,s was for trade with europe not political union ,once that vote was taken our industry was asset stripped so we lost fishing rights car manufacture engineering ship building all the trades where apprenticeships were needed and skills could be passed on.and we traded with the world on our own merits. now we are in a union that is out of control and swallows money at an alarming rate thank heaven we arn,t in the euro Edited April 1, 2015 by armsid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) EU environmental directives have saved us from ourselves. I'm loathe to admit it, but it's true. We were tge dirty man of Europe. Typical UK style Though, we went at it like a bull at a gate and gold plated them, consequently nobody really knows how to be fully compliant, and execution can be clumsy and /or over zealous for fear of EU fines. They have the power to bend us over if we drop the ball. Bad? Nope, not in my opinion. The uk has never been cleaner since 0500 hrs on the first day of the industrial revolution. (The fact we have no industry is obviously a somewhat uncomfortable irony though LOL). Every sector has had a shake up. EU membership has been a gift that we might sneer at now, but give it a couple of generations and it will be a different story. It comes at a cost but its for the greater good. Edited April 2, 2015 by ack-ack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 EU environmental directives have saved us from ourselves. I'm loathe to admit it, but it's true. We were tge dirty man of Europe. Typical UK style Though, we went at it like a bull at a gate and gold plated them, consequently nobody really knows how to be fully compliant, and execution can be clumsy and /or over zealous for fear of EU fines. They have the power to bend us over if we drop the ball. Bad? Nope, not in my opinion. The uk has never been cleaner since 0500 hrs on the first day of the industrial revolution. (The fact we have no industry is obviously a somewhat uncomfortable irony though LOL). Every sector has had a shake up. When was the last time you saw a farmer grub a hedge? EU membership has been a gift that we might sneer at now, but give it a couple of generations and it will be a different story. It comes at a cost but its for the greater good. Couldn't agree more..the problem is many anti-EU protagonists have not considered the full facts..Britain is stronger in many respects as part of the EU and the EU similarly with Britain as a member. In my opinion the withdrawal of GB from the EU would be absolute folly. Ultimately I believe any referendum on the EU will result in an overwhelming vote to remain. We do not have the resources to annexe Europe and support a burgeoning population independently. We need the EU to survive and thrive, its as simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Couldn't agree more..the problem is many anti-EU protagonists have not considered the full facts..Britain is stronger in many respects as part of the EU and the EU similarly with Britain as a member. In my opinion the withdrawal of GB from the EU would be absolute folly. Ultimately I believe any referendum on the EU will result in an overwhelming vote to remain. We do not have the resources to annexe Europe and support a burgeoning population independently. We need the EU to survive and thrive, its as simple as that. Yep! Would be good to renegotiate some terms though. The EU does very well out of us so we must have some clout even if we have lost our triple A battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 I agree - a conviction politician with her head up her backside, doesnt see much. I like conviction politicians in many ways, Maggie was one of the best but you're right, she is so narrow minded... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTEMUP Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 No need to be in a political union to trade. No need at all. No other trading block does it...but the EU isn't about trade, it's about security, (not least keeping Germany in check). Strength in numbers and all that. Of course to achieve that goal all EU countries would have to sign over their sovereignty to Brussels, which is exactly what we've been doing bit by bit, year on year. And by that you mean signed over to Germany who rule the eu! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTEMUP Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 If it survives with one less net contributor The eu would lose a lot of credibility on the world stage if we pulled out and lets face it the eu is actually bankrupt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett1985 Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 We do not have the resources to annexe Europe and support a burgeoning population independently. We need the EU to survive and thrive, its as simple as that. am i the only one who read this as "since joining the we have made a rod for our own backs and now have to rely on their support and and resources"? because that seems to be the problem in my opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 EU environmental directives have saved us from ourselves. I'm loathe to admit it, but it's true. We were tge dirty man of Europe. Typical UK style Though, we went at it like a bull at a gate and gold plated them, consequently nobody really knows how to be fully compliant, and execution can be clumsy and /or over zealous for fear of EU fines. They have the power to bend us over if we drop the ball. Bad? Nope, not in my opinion. The uk has never been cleaner since 0500 hrs on the first day of the industrial revolution. (The fact we have no industry is obviously a somewhat uncomfortable irony though LOL). Every sector has had a shake up. EU membership has been a gift that we might sneer at now, but give it a couple of generations and it will be a different story. It comes at a cost but its for the greater good. You are joking aren't you? In a couple more generations we will be the dustbin of Europe,millions more ne'r do wells ,more bonkers rules from fatcat EU politicians with their hands down each others trousers and a demographic that will see the countries finances on its knees. The UKs industry is now centred around technology and we need to get the workers to expand upon that,either import the right people ,or train the ones we have. Not let in anyone and everyone 'hoping ' they might contribute. The benefit and pension bill for the next generation will have us struggling to keep our head above water,never mind the generation after that. Don't forget ,people are living longer and will want their pensions,plus all the dole scrounging chavs that exist now will at least double in 20 years by breeding alone. Yes our environment might be cleaner,but at the cost of a bloated DEFRA enforcing stupid EU laws making businesses often unviable. The sad part is we are one of the few nations that actually do it,makes my blood boil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 We do not have the resources to annexe Europe and support a burgeoning population independently. We need the EU to survive and thrive, its as simple as that. And why do we have a burgeoning population Mike? Have the British people gone bonking crazy over the last 20 years...or is there another reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 It would be a disaster for industry and commerce. Why? If Europe started adding lots of taxes onto our produce, we could do the same to theirs and seeing as we import more than export, who loses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ack-ack Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 The sad part is we are one of the few nations that actually do it,makes my blood boil. As i said, we gold plate. We make a rod for own back when we implement EU directives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmydean Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 The sad facts over the years are that the EU makes pronouncements (eg farming) chickens, pigs, etc being kept in humane conditions GB toes the line, few others do and we become uncompetitive, as raising standards isnt cheap and unit costs of production rise. Britain loses market share - danish bacon is produced inhumanely buy British. If there are difficulties they blockade - we just suck it up. It needs a fairly far-sighted and intelligent politician to see through the EU bureaucracy and unpick the best position - in or out, for Britain but its not a decision to be made on prejudice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 how many of you on here are old enough to remember the time before eu,i voted against joining in the first place,and I know people who voted for it then because they believed all the spiv that it would be better for us the same people admit they were wrong and would vote for out if they got the chance,it would do us more good than harm to leave the eu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 "The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe." : Mikhail Gorbachev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 how many of you on here are old enough to remember the time before eu,i voted against joining in the first place,and I know people who voted for it then because they believed all the spiv that it would be better for us the same people admit they were wrong and would vote for out if they got the chance,it would do us more good than harm to leave the eu. Ah, but we didn't vote for the EU. We voted on the Common Market. I voted yes - would again for a Common Market. What we got is a million miles away from what we voted about. How the politicians, of all colours, have got away with it for all these years beggars belief. The people of these islands have never been asked for their views on being part of a European political confederation. We (the politicians) scream for democracy - they send our lads to war over democracy in all parts of the world - then they deny us the right to vote on our own future. ******* hypocrites the lot of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 They got hungry for more power, even the UK saw the EU as more power and more influence. It's like the emperor's new clothes, everyone can see the problems, they just don't want to talk about them. Most of the main players are centre left or left, Mrs Merkel was from the old East Germany.... Socialism in a watered down version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 China, Taiwan, Korea, Japan and the USA all seem to trade quite well and they're not members. It's worth maintaining the distinction between the Common Market, which we did get a vote on, and the European Parliament/ European Community which we didn't get a vote on. It was sold to us as simply a trading agreement, we didn't realise at the time that it was the road to handing the government of our country over to a European Superstate riddled with fraud and corruption. OUT!! I say, OUT!! OUT!!! OUT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 The people of these islands have never been asked for their views on being part of a European political confederation. And if the mainstream politicos have their way we never will,must all be part of some further plan. If Cameron were to promise a referendum immediately on winning the election he would get my vote,and probably a lot of others thinking about UKIP. So why wait 2 years ? What can happen in 2 years? Fact is he knows what the result would be,so tries to delay it hoping for a better result,thats not democracy. He said last night 'we can negotiate a better deal, Ive done it before with our EU budget contribution hike' No he didnt,he gave away our rebate to cover it ,if not an outright lie,then a pitiful excuse to pretend he has some sway over the EU top dogs . Pathetic performance from Cam last night,but Farage needs to stop jerking all over the place when he speaks,quite unnerving ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted April 3, 2015 Report Share Posted April 3, 2015 just been watching/looking at photos of the last century in Europe, all were about wars, wasn't that a reason for the start of the union Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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