.17 hmr Zeroing

[deadeye ive]

I'll try to make this short and sweet

1,Zero'd my newly aquired Leupold vx III at Garlands (Conditions good)

 

2,When out hunting the other day and at around 100yds homed in on a Rabbits knapper and missed what was an easy shot .

 

3,Checked the zeroing by setting a target up at 106 yds and found I was shooting 2" low :blink: .....See pic below ,they are marked with an *.I re-zero'd to suit and again Conditions good

To day went back to Garlands on their range which is 95 yds and now I'm 2" high again .Because I set up the dials on zero on the original zeroing session I simply returned them back to their original setting and guess what .......On the nail again

 

The third group was achieved in POM aka Pi**ed off mode and no rear support either . ..........One of my best even though I pulled the first shot .

 

Everything is tight

Same batch number ammo

very similar weather conditions .

The only difference is location and 10 yds further on my permission so any ideas before I end up in a funny farm .

[Vegeta]

are you shooting on flat land at your permission. Its not slightly sloped or anything like that.

[Axe]

Ive, do you live in the Bermuda triangle? :blink: I had a peculiar night last week, missed several good easy shoots at 100 yard ranges. Every time I re-checked on static objects and was spot on.

 

Could it be your 106 or 95 yards was miscalculated? Have you tried 20 grainers to see if you get a similar result? Were the shots all taken level?

[skinner]

there must be a virus going around,i had similar problem over weekend missed 5 rabbits around 70 100 yrds

so that put an end to that night,went to zero the next day and it was shooting 3 inches left 2 inches high :blink:

there was no way it would rezero,so cleaned the barrel and tried again, much better but no where nere perfect.the only thing left to clean was mod,got all the crud out (there was loads)gave it a good clean with wire brush on the dremal.sunday went to check zero spot on almost 2 boxs of ammo waisted but got there in the end.

do anyone think the mod caused this,never really had it that bad of zero.

[Peter_HMR]

Think theres a bug going around was out shooting the other day for a few mins where i was working shot 3 rabbits 120yards 100yards and then 70yards didnt miss one. Went to check zero at the week end and 2" low and 2" to the right :blink:

 

Having said that i didnt have a range finder when i zeroed it and recon it was zeroed at 85yards and it was slightly windy and to top it all when i went to zero it i was turning the turrets in the wrong direction but alls well and its on zero ready to pop off a few more bunnnie rabbits

[dunganick]

are you shooting:

 

from a bipod in one case and not in another

 

Prone in one, standing/from back of car in another

 

both of these cases could change your POI due to either the barrel pressure being touched (you know this DeadEye) or moving your head might between positions can change your POI. Hense why you should always zero in the same position as you intend to shoot the gun mainly from. This might in part be due to non fussy eye relief on the leupold, or a poor cheak contact on the stock (varmint stock is very low and short).

 

also consider that the gun is not floated as well as you think and the different conditions (humidity etc...) between the two days made the wood contract and alter POI.

[deadeye ive]

A bit more info

 

Distances ranged by rangefinder and checked by paced steps .

Ammo from the same box .

 

Range on permission was down a gradual slope ......It's flat at Garlands

 

The original zero was set when firing from on a solid bench and sitting .

 

The missed shot was lying prone obviously .The rifle was re -zero'd lying prone on the same day .

 

To day i deliberately omitted using the bench opting for a prone position instead only to find I had to go back to the original setting's so taking the bench out of the equation so to speak .

 

Again I'm starting to bring into question the consistancy of HMR ammo at the moment and the fact have standards dropped to meet demand has i seem to get alot of odd flyers .

 

It may be worth trying the less popular 20 grner's

Ps just seen your response Nick

 

Barrel has a cleaning rag clearance and I simulate my in the field conditions when I'm happy the rifle is set up after bench resting . :blink:

[sussex lad]

I've stop messing about and get .223 on the job :blink:

Given up on my .17 its going for trade in on my 6.5

[deadeye ive]

I've stop messing about and get .223 on the job :blink:

Given up on my .17 its going for trade in on my 6.5

The .223 is reliable but this rifle is causing some fun and games to say the least,Even with the last scope fitted hence the change or upgrade .Your last post was with the .22lr where you commented on it's reliability I noticed so have you had some inconsistancy with this calibre or is it the fact That it's a Ruger ?

[Dougy]

glad to see your groups have got worse Ive

 

and as you know mine has gone funny on me too

 

see tomorrow what happens.

 

then have to book a few hours next week to sort out the Sako 75 22.250 VSS

 

oh and dont forget your ear plugs :blink:

 

and tissues you will need them when you see the rifle

[deadeye ive]

Seeing how this threads unfolding there seems to be a pattern merging around inconsistancy of the HMR .Hopefully Garlands might have some 20 grn,ers for me to try and seeing has they don't shift that many it'll more than likely be an early batch :blink: .

 

1 hr will be fine ...........Don't bet On my grouping taking a nose dive either

 

Talking on quality issues here is a post from a UK shooter taken from Rimfire Central

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi there ive just come back from the range after fireing about 40 shots of Remington premier magnum rimfire cartridges, from my CZ 452 16" varmint. When i came to pick up the shells i noticed that about 4 of the shells had split down the side of the caseing from the top of the neck to about 1 cm down! IS this normal as ive never seen it with my .22 or 22-250 cases? Your help would be much appreciated. P.s at 100 yrds im geting about 1 and a half inch groups is this about right?

 

It does make you wonder

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

I've just been out with my 0.17, which is an Anschutz 1517.

 

After a thorough cleaning the 1st 5 shot group at 100 yards was 19mm centre to centre.

 

The 2nd 5 shot group was 18mm.

 

The 3rd 5 shot group was 25 mm

 

The final group (10 shots) opened way up to 40 mm. (should have stuck to 5 shots).

 

Now all of the above group sizes include what we would normally call fliers - if I didn't then I could cheat and say the 2nd group size was 11 mm etc.

 

Conditions were good, with no wind and shooting off a bipod with no rear rest.

 

I know from experience that I could clean my gun and go out again and reproduce similar groups.

 

The barrel is free floating, and I have a Swarovski 4 - 12 x 50 scope.

 

To me there are two main possible reasons as to why the group sizes on my gun start to open up after 20 consecutive shots :

 

1) The barrel is getting dirtier.

 

2) The barrel is warming up.

 

If you have a look at some of the American forums where they are trying to get the best bench rest groups out of 0.17's, then they clean their barrels after every 5 shots or so. I am not advocating that we do this, just that it is recognised over there that this is what you have to do to get the best bench rest results.

 

Don

[deadeye ive]

That's a great response Don and to which I agree but can you read the original post again and tell me why I have 2" bullet POI between one area and another . :blink:

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

That's a great response Don and to which I agree but can you read the original post again and tell me why I have 2" bullet POI between one area and another .

 

The only 'common sense' reasons that I can think of are :

 

1) Check scope clamp screws and similar screws on gun.

 

2) Scope is faulty - for some reason the reticle is moving (this has happened to me in a previous life, and it drove me nuts until I solved it).

 

3) Perhaps you are 'leaning into' the bipod on one set of groups, and on the next time you are keeping it 'free'.

 

4) As someone else has mentioned, perhaps you are not keeping your eye central in the scope on one series of shots.

 

5) Gun needs a clean - although why this should move the group up or down I do not know.

 

6) Barrel is not free floating.

 

Now I know that you have tried some of the above, but that's all I can think of to explain a zero moving.

 

Don

[tikkamark]

my hmr never gives me any trouble and ive fired a lot of shots through mine over the last 2 years or so always

gives very tight groups in calm conditions

[Dougy]

just thought i should say"-

 

had a split in one of mine the other day as well just as "Ive" said about 1 mil from the top of the neck but from a case about 6 months old.

[deadeye ive]

my hmr never gives me any trouble and ive fired a lot of shots through mine over the last 2 years or so always

gives very tight groups in calm conditions

I'm happy for you Mark ..............3 months or so ago I would have said the same thing

[al4x]

just thought i should say"-

 

had a split in one of mine the other day as well just as "Ive" said about 1 mil from the top of the neck but from a case about 6 months old.

 

 

I've had one in mine split right down the side of the case and jammed it very tightly in, but thats the only one so may just be a blip,

[Axe]

Ive, i'm not convinced its the ammo. It wouldnt make your zero shift as you describe.

 

how high is your scope from the barrel? What length barrel have you got? Have you tried it without the moderator?

[kip270]

Hope i'm not going to get all these problems when i get my .17hmr You have all got me worried now

[deadeye ive]

glad to see your groups have got worse Ive

95 yds ,Lying prone using a Bi- pod only

I'll let Dougy fill in the details seeing has he was next to me

 

 

 

Ive, i'm not convinced its the ammo. It wouldnt make your zero shift as you describe.

 

how high is your scope from the barrel? What length barrel have you got? Have you tried it without the moderator?

No I haven't tried the mod off ,Scope is set low to barrel with minimal clearance . ,Barrel lenght is 21"

 

I'm not convinced about ammo now now looking at that group I achieved to day ............I really am going mad :oops:I'm waitng for a response about shooting down a slope .

 

And yes my groups opened up with more flyers as Don said and it took less than 25 shots to reveal this .

 

My advice

 

Clean your barrel as much has you do the wedding tackle

[kip270]

Clean your barrel as much has you do the wedding tackle

 

 

What five times a day , and do you have speed up when you nearly finish cleaning the barrel

[deadeye ive]

What five times a day , and do you have speed up when you nearly finish cleaning the barrel

Now Then Kip .........I have told you over a Million times not to exaggerate !

[Axe]

I really am going mad :oops:I'm waitng for a response about shooting down a slope .

 

I cant get this to compute in my head but, shooting upwards or downwards you need to hold under. However, this doesnt explain how your 106 yards is low as you would expect it to be high based on the elevated shooting theory.

[Dunkield]

I reckon Dougy had a big magnet in his pocket