Savhmr Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 I suspect you are more likely to get 308 for target and deer then AOLQ to cover fox initial issue. If fox is pushed to hard I suspect you'll be told 2 rifles. I've in the past had my 243 (my foxing rifle that sometimes its used on deer) changed to deer and AOLQ instead of Fox Deer and AOLQ. I don't intend to push fox too hard, as deer are the main problem. It's just that with fox on the land, they're unwelcome visitors at lambing time and and as far as the young poults go, so I envisage taking the odd fox. The 308 is capable of doing both and I dont want a rifle for just fox. That, in my book, is insufficient need given that fox can be put as permitted quarry on my 17HMR ticket for my WMR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malkiserow Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 ask for" AOLQ" which will cover all legal quarry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 You will not get AOLQ in Gloucester. they are removing it if its on your ticket when you put in for variation or such. Show need, know the reasons as to the need and you will be fine. I get on well with Glos and i find them very approachable, as said, if you can show reason then its all good. don't stand with the rest on the 243, just because its minimum calibre does not mean it's any less than a 308. shill gonna hurt is pointed in the wrong direction. still going to do the same to deer, fox or moles. only reason there is so many 243's out there is that shooters get told they can only have a 243 and they are more worried about getting knocked back so don't like rocking the boat so to speak and except the 243. no problems as long as you show need. my first was 6.5 then a 7x57r. i have the 308 on the same as the 6.5, also had the 243 which was just used for fox, carp calibre by the way. to much for fox, not enough for bigger deer. roe being soft-bodied just smashed them compared to a 6.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Have they said why the are going against the ACPO on Home Office guidance of AOLQ? Has BASC been asked to get involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 You will not get AOLQ in Gloucester. they are removing it if its on your ticket when you put in for variation or such. Show need, know the reasons as to the need and you will be fine. I get on well with Glos and i find them very approachable, as said, if you can show reason then its all good. don't stand with the rest on the 243, just because its minimum calibre does not mean it's any less than a 308. shill gonna hurt is pointed in the wrong direction. still going to do the same to deer, fox or moles. only reason there is so many 243's out there is that shooters get told they can only have a 243 and they are more worried about getting knocked back so don't like rocking the boat so to speak and except the 243. no problems as long as you show need. my first was 6.5 then a 7x57r. i have the 308 on the same as the 6.5, also had the 243 which was just used for fox, carp calibre by the way. to much for fox, not enough for bigger deer. roe being soft-bodied just smashed them compared to a 6.5. Yes, I heard that AOLQ might be being removed as a general permission. I think that I have sufficient evidence for need, being now enrolled in a fullbore range and having a landowner endorse the need for deer control on his land. The evidence may no longer be sufficient for Gloucestershire although I'm reliably informed that it remains reasonable need for other forces. Evidence for permission varies between forces and always has done. It's not what Home office guidelines state but what the Chief Constable and the licencing team decide for their patch. In this case, I expect to be told that a 308 for target is fine, as it's a well established firearm calibre for all range distances from 100yds to 1200 yds, but that I will have to provide evidence of accompanied stalking for deer. I don't know of many who are granted 308 first time without this. I don't have need for smaller faster calibres some of which are less suited to target and which are more explosive on the meat causing more meat damage. Larger slower rounds kill just as effectively without as much damage which is what I need if intending on selling meat or for the pot. See you Sunday week by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 I don't intend to push fox too hard, as deer are the main problem. It's just that with fox on the land, they're unwelcome visitors at lambing time and and as far as the young poults go, so I envisage taking the odd fox. The 308 is capable of doing both and I dont want a rifle for just fox. That, in my book, is insufficient need given that fox can be put as permitted quarry on my 17HMR ticket for my WMR. Do you have a need for deer, if I've read your comments correctly the landowner does wants the deer left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) Have they said why the are going against the ACPO on Home Office guidance of AOLQ? Has BASC been asked to get involved? This is what S13.9 of the Home Office Guidance stipulates: 13.9 says "Once initial "good reason" has been established for the possession of a firearm, there is no requirement for "good reason" to be demonstrated for additional quarry species or amendments providing the firearms are not underpowered for the species (see also paragraph 13.17). A cartridge should be capable of achieving a humane kill, and it is the responsibility of the shooter to ensure that any excess energy will be absorbed by the backstop. The "any other lawful quarry" condition should be applied. If an applicant is suitable to hold a firearm certificate and is deemed safe to do so, there is no requirement to restrict the quarry they shoot by the use of conditions." You can take this two ways; either 1) There is no legal driver to reasonably withold AOLQ on your permission or; 2) It is automatically granted by dint of the wording in S13.9 without needing to be specified and you can lawfully shoot whatever species that your calibre is deemed powerful enough to kill humanely. Blowing a squirrel apart with a .243 may be deemed as "overkill" by some FEOs BUT dead is dead and there's nothing inhumane about instantaneous lights out! The way I read it is that they will not GRANT a permission based on AOLQ in its own right so why stipulate the wording on a permission as it's already implied in the Home Office guidelines? Edited August 20, 2015 by Savhmr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) Do you have a need for deer, if I've read your comments correctly the landowner does wants the deer left! Yes, I have need. The landowners wife wasn't too keen but he's since spoken with me again (confusing as this may seem) and agrees with me on the need and has given me a signed letter now in support of my application, so happy days. I have another permission where Roe are plentiful and the owner is keen to have them controlled as well. I didn't make that clear, I have two permissions. I also have the option of paid stalking as does everyone else. Edited August 20, 2015 by Savhmr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 The funny thing with all this is talk of .243 being minimum for deer hence suitable. It is arguably the best fox caliber going but still a little noisy even when moderated if you have houses round. Shooting foxes most like a fast bullet not only for the flattening effect but also safety. The 308 is far from the best fox round and is a lot of energy to be throwing about at night. Deer wise I'm also happier using a rifle that I use very regularly as you just shoot with more confidence and generally that equates to better accuracy. Is it a target round not really but targets are boring in comparison to foxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Have a look into 6mmppc if reloading. That's a do all rifle, apparently the most accurate round out there 100-300m. If you get the right twist you can range from 60g-100g bullets and with careful loading is deer legal in the UK.It shoots very much like a 223 but with a 6mm bullet,very quiet and minimal recoil . That's what I'm currently waiting for with my variation. If I wasn't getting the ppc I would go 6mmbr or 30br. Think a 30br may end up replacing one of my 308's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Have a look into 6mmppc if reloading. That's a do all rifle, apparently the most accurate round out there 100-300m. If you get the right twist you can range from 60g-100g bullets and with careful loading is deer legal in the UK.It shoots very much like a 223 but with a 6mm bullet,very quiet and minimal recoil . That's what I'm currently waiting for with my variation. If I wasn't getting the ppc I would go 6mmbr or 30br. Think a 30br may end up replacing one of my 308's. Nah no good, uses the same bullets as the .243 which apparently is no good for target fox or deer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) AOLQ is a joke short of the deer act and minimum requirements there is NO requirement to list anything other than the specification as to what your rifle was granted for. (target use aside as expanding ammo, target and competition use has always been a specific good reason) BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN ONLY SHOOT THAT ONE ITEM! if you have a .270 conditioned 1D for Deer you can shoot whatever the **** you like with it so long as its PRIMARY purpose is DEER! BTW I have this in writing from the Police way before they started this whole AOLQ ******** Its the same with .22lr and Fox so long as you are not in breach of animal welfare acts, health and safety acts and any manner of other acts.....You and only you decide what to shoot and with what. I have a 300Win Mag conditioned for deer but if I am on my way back from stalking and a hoodie crow is stupid enough to land within range he will be getting a 208gr enema....legally! Nah no good, uses the same bullets as the .243 which apparently is no good for target fox or deer! apparently no-one has told the numerous targets, fox or deer shot out to silly ranges that the 6mm pill is ineffective! Edited August 20, 2015 by Bewsher500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 AOLQ is a joke short of the deer act and minimum requirements there is NO requirement to for anything other than the specification as to what your rifle was granted for. (target use aside as expanding ammo, target and competition use has always been a specific good reason) if you have a .270 conditioned 1D for Deer you can shoot whatever the **** you like with it so long as its PRIMARY purpose is DEER! BTW I have this in writing from the Police way before they started this whole AOLQ ******** Its the same with .22lr and Fox so long as you are not in breach of animal welfare acts, health and safety acts and any manner of other acts.....You and only you decide what to shoot and with what. I have a 300Win Mag conditioned for deer but if I am on my way back from stalking and a hoodie crow is stupid enough to land within range he will be getting a 208gr enema....legally! apparently no-one has told the numerous targets, fox or deer shot out to silly ranges that the 6mm pill is ineffective! That's also my understanding and I've never understood the whole AOLQ wording as being necessary. My rimfires are granted for vermin control which covers just about all "AOLQ" they can be used for anyway! If I get a rifle conditioned for Deer, then I expect to be able to take any other quarry with it too providing the quarry can be humanely be dealt with and the shot is safe. That's sort of what S13.9 says anyway so people needn't fret about AOLQ being removed from a permission as it never was intended as a primary reason for granting a specific firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Nah no good, uses the same bullets as the .243 which apparently is no good for target fox or deer! At the end of the day it's up to the individual to decide what they put in for based on need and suitability and whilst there may be differences of opinion on preferred calibres each with good reasons for the individual, I don't think anyone has said that 243 isn't a capable round, far from it. For me, personally speaking, my choice is based upon sound reasoning for my own circumstances and on professional advice offered to me. Can't see why anyone feels the need to get overly precious about their chosen calibre. People will shoot what people deem suitable for them and what's granted to them for the purposes specified so what does it really matter what others say about your chosen calibre?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Aolq was removed when the badger cull started. Basc have spoken to the force and came away saying that's that way it is. This make no difference to me as I just get them to list every thing that I can legally shoot. Have you thought about the 6.5cm. Ruger are barreling in them now as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Crikey. 6.5cm? Will that knock a fox over??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Aolq was removed when the badger cull started. Basc have spoken to the force and came away saying that's that way it is. This make no difference to me as I just get them to list every thing that I can legally shoot. Have you thought about the 6.5cm. Ruger are barreling in them now as well I've considered many different calibres and each seems to have their own following. I have to settle on one calibre to cover my needs and 308 just seems to tick all the boxes. Taking professional advice only seems to have reinforced that opinion, so that's what'll go on my variation application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Apparently it's the new .308, the 1/2 moa groups at 800 yds look impressive. Might be too much shoulder damage on muntjac at that range though !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Can't you just buy two rifles. A Cz 527 223 and a parkerhale 308. Then ask for fox and target on the 223 then on the 308 ask for deer, and fox whilst stalking and target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew f Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Apparently it's the new .308, the 1/2 moa groups at 800 yds look impressive. Might be too much shoulder damage on muntjac at that range though !! where can I get one of these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savhmr Posted August 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Can't you just buy two rifles. A Cz 527 223 and a parkerhale 308. Then ask for fox and target on the 223 then on the 308 ask for deer, and fox whilst stalking and target. I could but why? 308 will do all of what's needed so I don't have need of two rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Get real guys a 243 can go through a red stag with the right bullet even if its wearing a 6mm thick steel waistcoat Have been though a few stalking rifles and calibres and all the legal ones work just fine just so lomg as you have the right bullet it makes no matter what you choose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
activeviii Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Apparently it's the new .308, the 1/2 moa groups at 800 yds look impressive. Might be too much shoulder damage on muntjac at that range though !! Add this http://shop.nosler.com/nosler-bullets/accubond-long-range-nosler-bullet/accubond-lr-6-5mm-142-grain-bullet-100ct.html with a BC of 0.719 and here's my new long range rifle but the 6mmbr is on the ticket for now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Silly question but have you used any of the calibers mentioned? As if not you really need to a 308 on a fox and deer gun as a first centre fire good luck with your feo with that one..... Edited August 21, 2015 by al4x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert 888 Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 He sounds like an feo with the way he has gone about the variation. Jumping through hoops rolling over and Barking on demand will be next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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