Muntjacs

[hugh hickey]

Anyone know what's the minimum caliber for muntjacs as I hope to get a 223 very soon

[fenboy]

223 is legal for muntjac as long as you use 50 grain + @1000 ft/lb

[hugh hickey]

Is that the minimum caliber

[Harry136]

Personally, if I were to buy a rifle, I'd go for a .308, that way it's good for everything in the UK, from Muntjack to Red Deer and even Wild Boar, not to mention FT disciplines.

[spandit]

223 is legal for muntjac as long as you use 50 grain + @1000 ft/lb

The one I shot with my .223 didn't run far

[fenboy]

Is that the minimum caliber

The actual law is not less than .220 inches so 222 would be ok too.

[LeadWasp]

Hugh ...bit concerned about http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/320892-222/linked with the above. Could I politely suggest that you get a bit of help/experience from an experienced stalker before you go shooting. There's a lot you kneed to know before you pull the trigger.

[spandit]

Shooting it is the easy bit. Knowing what to do afterwards is the challenge

[LeadWasp]

Shooting it is the easy bit. Knowing what to do afterwards is the challenge

I couldn't disagree more. That's quite a cavalier statement. Anyone can shoot a living creature if the opportunity presents but how have you behaved getting to that point. There is an awful lot to consider including fieldcraft, the law, humanity and of course, most prominently, safety.

[spandit]

Wasn't what I was trying to get across and didn't mean to appear cavalier although I can see how it read that way. What I meant is that shooting a fox, for example, ends with the kill (or when you bung it in a hedge). Shooting an animal intended for consumption has a whole other load of considerations - gralloch, butchery, meat hygiene etc.

[bumpy22]

as soon as the beast hits the ground it then enters the food chain

[kent]

Wasn't what I was trying to get across and didn't mean to appear cavalier although I can see how it read that way. What I meant is that shooting a fox, for example, ends with the kill (or when you bung it in a hedge). Shooting an animal intended for consumption has a whole other load of considerations - gralloch, butchery, meat hygiene etc.

I got your point but remember the law of the jungle applies on PW lol

[kent]

If it's legal then take it as good

I think however that as the gun won't even be legal for roe unless you already own it get 243 upwards as then you have no legal limit on its quarry

Some heavy deer calibres cause concern to the authorities for other purposes and are not honestly required though so don't go mad

[old man]

as soon as the beast hits the ground it then enters the food chain

 

Unfortunately I beg to differ here, consideration starts a lot further forward than this point.

[kent]

Quite is the beast acting like a normal healthy animal. I have shot a few that were doing anything but this- two in the final stages of blood poisoning after being shot by poachers with shotguns

[welshwarrior]

 

Unfortunately I beg to differ here, consideration starts a lot further forward than this point.

Plus one some people are appearing or they are cavilier in the way stalking occurs or is planned it worries me slightly (and a few others it appears) that people believe they just a apply for a rifle and go out and shoot at deer etc then can make food. Edited September 21, 2015 by welshwarrior

[kent]

Plus one some people are appearing or they are cavilier in the way stalking occurs or is planned it worries me slightly (and a few others it appears) that people believe they just a apply for a rifle and go out and shoot at deer etc then can make food.

All problems created from pay for the day and deer are an asset approach to management

Can't wind back the clock though

[WelshMike]

Always an emotive one when it relates to shooting deer.

 

If you are shooing a deer for your own consumption, as long as it is shot humanely the risk is with you.

 

If the deer is going into the food chain then recognising normal behaviour, extraction, gralloch and inspection etc are very important.

 

I do however struggle to see why deer deserve more respect then other quarry we shoot? I like a quick and humane death for everything that I shoot. Dont get me wrong I have a lot of respect for deer, and despite limited opportunities, have been lucky enough to shoot a few sika, fallow and roe.

 

I do agree with Kent that once money comes into the equation most other thoughts go out of the window. I am sure some people that sell Roe stalking will let clients pay £3k for a medal buck when the client would struggle to meet the DSC1 minimum criteria for accuracy (3 shots in a 10 cm circle- which isnt exactly strict).

[LeadWasp]

Deer are our chosen subject here but you are right WelshMike that a lack of consideration applies to pest species too. I'm not suggesting rat cuddling by any means but Dekers (?) put it well some time ago by saying something along the lines of "I shoot foxes because I have to, not because I want to". Increasingly this attitude is being lost, especially amongst the new middle aged sport of long range shooting. Here steel targets are being substituted with living creatures and the whole 'get closer, be better' maxim is lost. The risks of wounding or an accident are huge. How can you follow up a wounded creature in anything like a humane timespan that's 800yds away and hoofing it into cover - I challenge anyone to even be able to find/remember exactly where is was stood! The number of times recently that newish FAC holders with recently lifted conditions have said to me 'I'm a deer stalker now' beggars belief. It's not a badge chap it's an attitude of mind.

 

The accepted way, the taught way, the admired way, the humane way is to put yourself 'in the zone' (yuk!) from the moment you reach for your cabinet keys. The way that is slack, inhumane, lazy, careless and guaranteed to enable those opposed to deer management or pest control to chip away at shooting is to think 'it's easy' or 'it's just a fox' or to not pay attention, to not be alert, to take risks both of wounding or public safety largely because you've not thought it through.

 

So for this reason I think we DO need to shout and kick to roll the clock back by pointing out when things are done poorly. The problem is a growing one and I think it is only a matter of time before we read some bad news.

 

Simply put it boils down to safety and welfare. If we can't demonstrate this then we're losing already.

[WelshMike]

Deer are our chosen subject here but you are right WelshMike that a lack of consideration applies to pest species too. I'm not suggesting rat cuddling by any means but Dekers (?) put it well some time ago by saying something along the lines of "I shoot foxes because I have to, not because I want to". Increasingly this attitude is being lost, especially amongst the new middle aged sport of long range shooting. Here steel targets are being substituted with living creatures and the whole 'get closer, be better' maxim is lost. The risks of wounding or an accident are huge. How can you follow up a wounded creature in anything like a humane timespan that's 800yds away and hoofing it into cover - I challenge anyone to even be able to find/remember exactly where is was stood! The number of times recently that newish FAC holders with recently lifted conditions have said to me 'I'm a deer stalker now' beggars belief. It's not a badge chap it's an attitude of mind.

 

The accepted way, the taught way, the admired way, the humane way is to put yourself 'in the zone' (yuk!) from the moment you reach for your cabinet keys. The way that is slack, inhumane, lazy, careless and guaranteed to enable those opposed to deer management or pest control to chip away at shooting is to think 'it's easy' or 'it's just a fox' or to not pay attention, to not be alert, to take risks both of wounding or public safety largely because you've not thought it through.

 

So for this reason I think we DO need to shout and kick to roll the clock back by pointing out when things are done poorly. The problem is a growing one and I think it is only a matter of time before we read some bad news.

 

Simply put it boils down to safety and welfare. If we can't demonstrate this then we're losing already.

Well put indeed.

[welshwarrior]

Deer are our chosen subject here but you are right WelshMike that a lack of consideration applies to pest species too. I'm not suggesting rat cuddling by any means but Dekers (?) put it well some time ago by saying something along the lines of "I shoot foxes because I have to, not because I want to". Increasingly this attitude is being lost, especially amongst the new middle aged sport of long range shooting. Here steel targets are being substituted with living creatures and the whole 'get closer, be better' maxim is lost. The risks of wounding or an accident are huge. How can you follow up a wounded creature in anything like a humane timespan that's 800yds away and hoofing it into cover - I challenge anyone to even be able to find/remember exactly where is was stood! The number of times recently that newish FAC holders with recently lifted conditions have said to me 'I'm a deer stalker now' beggars belief. It's not a badge chap it's an attitude of mind.

 

The accepted way, the taught way, the admired way, the humane way is to put yourself 'in the zone' (yuk!) from the moment you reach for your cabinet keys. The way that is slack, inhumane, lazy, careless and guaranteed to enable those opposed to deer management or pest control to chip away at shooting is to think 'it's easy' or 'it's just a fox' or to not pay attention, to not be alert, to take risks both of wounding or public safety largely because you've not thought it through.

 

So for this reason I think we DO need to shout and kick to roll the clock back by pointing out when things are done poorly. The problem is a growing one and I think it is only a matter of time before we read some bad news.

 

Simply put it boils down to safety and welfare. If we can't demonstrate this then we're losing already.

LW has a turn of phrase I lake but whole heartedly agree with.

 

It's not just a fox it's a living animal, however we don't eat foxes so hitting it hard and then no meat handling is ok, but some sound like they go out killing not shooting.

[Redgum]

We all have our different views on the killing of an animal, firstly answering the original question, 222 and upward for Munty and CWD. Secondly to me the enjoyment of hunting an animal starts in my shed while I reload the correct ammo, knowing it is proven to be accurate and of the correct type for the job as humanely as possible along with the rest of the equipment, accurate rifle,sharp knife and clean bino's. The walk, the spotting of the deer and the stalk build the adrenalin and the skill to be calm at the precise moment. Often with a beautiful animal on the grass I feel a little remorse, just fleeting as the grallock has to be done, the skinning and butcher, finally the sizzling in the pan. There are those that just buy 20 rnds and a stalk for the day, maybe get a steak to take home and others that will not evern both following up an unsuccessful shot but that's unfortunately folk. Oh just thought of one part of the stalk I'm not so keen on and that's skinning the hind quarters of a Munty, concentration needed there

[30-06hunter]

Well put indeed.

 

i will second that

[Dekers]

Personally, if I were to buy a rifle, I'd go for a .308, that way it's good for everything in the UK, from Muntjack to Red Deer and even Wild Boar, not to mention FT disciplines.

 

So, would you buy a sit on lawnmower for your pocket handkerchief back garden so you could cut the school playing field as well?

[Dekers]

The actual law is not less than .220 inches so 222 would be ok too.

 

Current models .222, .223, 22-250 and even the .22 Hornet and 220 Swift (probably others I've forgotten) all share the same size bullet, commonly the same type and weight as well!