kitchrat Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Whilst that may be true , the effective part of any pattern is only 30 ". Shoot a pattern and look for yourself. By chance I did that on Saturday, that's why I felt I could post with some confidence. I shot at 35 yards, with full choke and the pattern almost covered my 36 in plate. - reading my web page diagram again, I have misread it, it says 40 inches at 35 yards, so at 40 yards it would be 45 inches plus. However, you are now talking about effective pattern, which brings pattern density into play - and I fully agree with you. It's estimated you need about 5 pellets to hit a bird to be pretty sure of making a clean kill. The Pigeon Watch Muppet who posted that he could kill almost all birds at 60 yards with a 1/4 choke needed a new tape measure - one measuring real yards not feet!! (hope it wasn't you!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farma Geddon Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 By chance I did that on Saturday, that's why I felt I could post with some confidence. I shot at 35 yards, with full choke and the pattern almost covered my 36 in plate. - reading my web page diagram again, I have misread it, it says 40 inches at 35 yards, so at 40 yards it would be 45 inches plus. However, you are now talking about effective pattern, which brings pattern density into play - and I fully agree with you. It's estimated you need about 5 pellets to hit a bird to be pretty sure of making a clean kill. The Pigeon Watch Muppet who posted that he could kill almost all birds at 60 yards with a 1/4 choke needed a new tape measure - one measuring real yards not feet!! (hope it wasn't you!!) No mate,not me. I use the tightest chokes for the tightest patterns , I like to see feathers fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael170874 Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 I can use 24 g or 34 g shells it don't matter i kill birds clean all day long at 15 to 40 yds .definatly your shooting .yep poor workman blaming syndrome here . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 I can use 24 g or 34 g shells it don't matter i kill birds clean all day long at 15 to 40 yds .definatly your shooting .yep poor workman blaming syndrome here . so you never ever wing or wound a bird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted October 11, 2015 Report Share Posted October 11, 2015 Come on Daz, you should know by now that Michael is the best. so you never ever wing or wound a bird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 just to add a little something extra to this very interesting topic.every shooter knows that all projectiles have a drop rate, does anybody know what it is for a 12 bore cartridge, it is said the accurate killing range for a 12 bore is 40 yds are the people who say they regulary kill at 60 yds or more are they using elevasion or has the pattern spread enough to compensate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 just to add a little something extra to this very interesting topic.every shooter knows that all projectiles have a drop rate, does anybody know what it is for a 12 bore cartridge, it is said the accurate killing range for a 12 bore is 40 yds are the people who say they regulary kill at 60 yds or more are they using elevasion or has the pattern spread enough to compensate I wouldn,t say I regulary kill birds at 60 yards but the odd few now and again its down to choke if you have 3/4 or full choke in the gun you have a dense enough pattern ,at 60 yards to kill them cleanly and that's what you need at range completely the opposite to what your saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) I wouldn,t say I regulary kill birds at 60 yards but the odd few now and again its down to choke if you have 3/4 or full choke in the gun you have a dense enough pattern ,at 60 yards to kill them cleanly and that's what you need at range completely the opposite to what your saying Fully agree, you need several pellets in a bird to be likely to make a clean kill, with an open choke you MIGHT get lucky and have a hit in the head, a broken wing or something, more likely to get a few feathers (Been there, done that) Edited October 13, 2015 by kitchrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 we all shoot a 60 yarder every now and again, i am just interested in what distance from the muzzle pellets start to drop and by how much, i watched a u tube dvd of digweed regulary shootin 100yd pigeons and the crow mans famous 90yd pheasant are they shooting high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) we all shoot a 60 yarder every now and again, i am just interested in what distance from the muzzle pellets start to drop and by how much, i watched a u tube dvd of digweed regulary shootin 100yd pigeons and the crow mans famous 90yd pheasant are they shooting high Try reading this Dad, hope it's not too much info, it did my head in! NB the shot sizes are US, slightly different. Sorry it's all about smaller pellets, but the principle is there. Clearly, larger pellets will retain energy better and fall less (kinetic energy starts out higher, wind resistance only a small increase - do the maths on mass vs frontal area of a sphere) https://www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com/downloads/shotgun_statistics.pdf NB2 Digweed shoots extra tight chokes. That gives him better pellet density at longer range of course. Edited October 13, 2015 by kitchrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 we all shoot a 60 yarder every now and again, i am just interested in what distance from the muzzle pellets start to drop and by how much, i watched a u tube dvd of digweed regulary shootin 100yd pigeons and the crow mans famous 90yd pheasant are they shooting high There is no way that George Digweed regularly kills 100 yard pigeons. It is BS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotguneddy Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I use wotevers available don't seem to notice the difference, but everyone's different had to use Kent velocity's 28-7s on Sunday crow shooting there still good at 40 yards but did notice it wasn't killing them as clean as I'd liked and had to give them another but still got them that's the main thing. Good post always like hearing other people's choice of ammo and shooting related posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 There is no way that George Digweed regularly kills 100 yard pigeons. It is BS! hes a great shot we all know that but I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDog Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 There is no way that George Digweed regularly kills 100 yard pigeons. It is BS! I agree Digweed does not shoot pigeons at 100 yards or even ninety or eighty yards. It is just not possible. That he or anyone else should even try to kill them at that range is shameful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotguneddy Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 I agree Digweed does not shoot pigeons at 100 yards or even ninety or eighty yards. It is just not possible. That he or anyone else should even try to kill them at that range is shameful. Well said jdog totally agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 There is no way that George Digweed regularly kills 100 yard pigeons. It is BS! WHAT, I agree with you again??????? And FieldsportTV channel should not promote that he does as it will encourage some of the rest of us to try... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Try reading this Dad, hope it's not too much info, it did my head in! NB the shot sizes are US, slightly different. Sorry it's all about smaller pellets, but the principle is there. Clearly, larger pellets will retain energy better and fall less (kinetic energy starts out higher, wind resistance only a small increase - do the maths on mass vs frontal area of a sphere) https://www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com/downloads/shotgun_statistics.pdf That info in the chart is good stuff and the drop isn't more that a couple of inches in difference load v load x speed. Eley used to display loads of info like this about target ID at range ECT. I wonder if it is still out there somewhere. I never think along the lines of how is this cartridge different to that one. To do so just makes another thought dimension. I just think about the target and bang. The lead goes down the barrel. If I put the lead on the target a couple of inches difference in where the shot pattern is at 35 > 40 yards is aint going to make a great deal of difference to the outcome. I don’t even look at whether the cartridge is an Eley or Winchester or Lyvale or any make it is just a cartridge that holds the shot. As in my previous post >> #14 I wrote >> I had a bit of this earlier in the year when we were flighting pigeons into the wood. I was using homeloads of 30 and 32 grms of #6. In one flight I only brought two down and heavily plucked about ten. The next flight I got about ten and plucked two. Same cartridge same set up it was just me. If the target is within the capabilities of the cartridge and gun and you put the lead on the target clay or other then it should do the job. If it doesn't then either you aren't on target or it's too far away. As far as I am concerned if they go bang and the lead is in there and I put the lead on the target it is going to do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh man Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 That info in the chart is good stuff and the drop isn't more that a couple of inches in difference load v load x speed. Eley used to display loads of info like this about target ID at range ECT. I wonder if it is still out there somewhere. I never think along the lines of how is this cartridge different to that one. To do so just makes another thought dimension. I just think about the target and bang. The lead goes down the barrel. If I put the lead on the target a couple of inches difference in where the shot pattern is at 35 > 40 yards is aint going to make a great deal of difference to the outcome. I don’t even look at whether the cartridge is an Eley or Winchester or Lyvale or any make it is just a cartridge that holds the shot. As in my previous post >> #14 I wrote >> I had a bit of this earlier in the year when we were flighting pigeons into the wood. I was using homeloads of 30 and 32 grms of #6. In one flight I only brought two down and heavily plucked about ten. The next flight I got about ten and plucked two. Same cartridge same set up it was just me. If the target is within the capabilities of the cartridge and gun and you put the lead on the target clay or other then it should do the job. If it doesn't then either you aren't on target or it's too far away. As far as I am concerned if they go bang and the lead is in there and I put the lead on the target it is going to do the job. fortune summed it up a treat , find a cartridge you like and stick to it , then if your having a poor day you then know its you and not the cartridge . I don't understand all this speed ( f p s ) stuff , when I pull the trigger all I am thinking about is hitting what I am firing at , and if I do all well and good and if I don't , well that's my fault and not the cartridge . I was always told , shoot within your capabilities , meaning the gun and cartridges are good enough but are YOU . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 There is no way that George Digweed regularly kills 100 yard pigeons. It is BS! Have you seen the warm cartridges dvd on you tube he claims to have measured a hedgerow at 100yds from his hide and he was knocking down pigeons flying along it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitchrat Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 fortune summed it up a treat , find a cartridge you like and stick to it , then if your having a poor day you then know its you and not the cartridge . I don't understand all this speed ( f p s ) stuff , when I pull the trigger all I am thinking about is hitting what I am firing at , and if I do all well and good and if I don't , well that's my fault and not the cartridge . I was always told , shoot within your capabilities , meaning the gun and cartridges are good enough but are YOU . It's all in the head really, if you think you've got the right ammo/choke combination I'm sure you shoot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Have you seen the warm cartridges dvd on you tube he claims to have measured a hedgerow at 100yds from his hide and he was knocking down pigeons flying along it Just watched said video. Maybe i missed it, but i heard no mention of a hedge 100 yards away. All i can say is, just try patterning those cartridges at 100 yards and see what they look like. Those pigeons didn't look 100 yards to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I remember watching this earlier this year, andy crow shooting at firebird targets fron 60 up to 100 yards its the first 7 mins of the episode https://youtu.be/ZrjCJHprAnA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 motty. 2.20 mins in the narrator says nearing a 100 yds sorry for the inaccuracy. also g.d. shoots long range pigeons is worth a look at 85 yds if he can see their vitals worth a look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotguneddy Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Does it really matter I'm sure everyone's heard there fair share of lies on these forums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShropshireSam Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 I don't think GD ever makes any claims....its the TV reporters who do that for him. With the question regarding pellet drop, on the video of GD shooting clays at ever increasing distances he does state at some distance that he has to start compensating for the drop as well as lead...but can't remember what that distance was....80 yards??? Not something I'm ever going to have to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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