Thousands of children are at risk of brain damage after eating game th

[Maldred4]

Its in the Daily Mail so it must be true.......Every last word and picture

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3268402/Thousands-children-risk-brain-damage-eating-game-killed-lead-ammunition-new-report-claims.html

[Scully]

Wonder who leaked this little snippet to the media.....again?

[panoma1]

Another attempt by Swift and the other members of the ban LAG to keep their unsubstantiated claims in the news and the pressure on DEFRA to ban lead shot by leaking the confidential content and unscientific conclusions of a one sided, biased report to the media.

 

The death throws of a biased and discredited organisation?

[wymberley]

Paul 100 commented, "seems a shame not to after you've shot them". Brilliant!

[subsonicnat]

once Again a defeated SWIFT and Co, Rearing their ugly heads in a last Ditch Death Throw..

Always believed that man to be a Fox in The chicken Coup.

Vindicated on all these years of looking in this mans eyes, Turncoat comes to mind.

Do have some other words ,but would be struck out on here.. "B".

[Savhmr]

I understand that the Forestry Commission may be requiring stalkers to use copper bullets in due course because of this non-issue. It's funny how twisted logic of a non-issue somehow always seems to manage to result in change, irrespective of what the law does (and often after knee jerk reactions in law). From what I understand, they do perform well though.

[wyatt]

Keep catching my youngest eating her boogies. When asked why she says they 'taste nice'. Kids eat all sorts of things which aren't good for them, until someone has some evidence that this is bad I'l let mine eat whatever I can get into them. They're fussy enough as it is.

[Harnser]

No body has eaten more lead shot than me over the years . Other than growing an extra finger on each hand and and having Tourette's making me shout out more game ,more game , I am fine .

 

Harnser

[B25Modelman]

Over the past years they have been more at risk sending them to church....ohhh no I should not have said that.

Edited October 14, 2015 by B25Modelman

[wyatt]

Over the past years they have been more at risk sending them to church....ohhh no I should not have said that.

Wife wants to take mine to church. Told her I'd fight to the end to take them shooting instead, much more of an education. Flipping catholics, pretend to say sorry and aparently it's all forgiven..

 

Now about that lead.. still no sound evidence is there!

[B25Modelman]

Wife wants to take mine to church. Told her I'd fight to the end to take them shooting instead, much more of an education. Flipping catholics, pretend to say sorry and aparently it's all forgiven..

 

Now about that lead.. still no sound evidence is there!

only that it probably came off the church roof

[Davyo]

Simple solution,don't eat meat.

[Beagle boy]

Never mind lead shot what about lead pipes in the ground? Ha ha

Surly if lead was as bad as they say it would be ripped out of the ground.

Cheers rob

[Savhmr]

Never mind lead shot what about lead pipes in the ground? Ha ha

Surly if lead was as bad as they say it would be ripped out of the ground.

Cheers rob

 

For the most part, it has been. There was a concerted push starting with privatisation in 1989 for all lead communication pipes (the ones between the mains in the road and your house) to be replaced, mostly using HDPE or MDPE and most households (not all) will have been done. There are also lead pipes within some older homes still, but even many of those were replaced under government funded schemes to rid the UK of lead in domestic water pipes. Lead pipes were only made to certain diameters, often no larger than an inch and a half because structurally, that is about as large as they can be made for pressurised systems, so you wont find many, if any, under our roads. Most older pipes under roads will be cast iron. Depending on the water hardness in your area, lead pipes are not always dangerous, as heavy scaling in hard water areas protects the end consumer to some degree from contamination. In soft water areas, it's a different matter though...

 

The whole lead debacle and the LAG agendas unwittingly signed up to by some (who later resigned) is all about pushing through evidence as yet unsubstantiated and very obviously avoiding any suggestion of scrutiny or peer review. We just have to hope that DEFRA and the FSA agree that no action or change should be made unless and until such independent peer review of the flawed "science" happens. Anything else would be negligent.

 

As mentioned previously, there is no clear receptor path for ingestion of lead from eating contaminated veg or cereal crop sincemost plants wont uptake lead readily, if at all, so the debate and "evidence" has to centre around lead traces from shot channels in game. The easy answer is to cut out the shot channels as lead will hardly have had time to circulate in the bloodstream of the animal shot and contaminate the meat, so what evidence there is, seeks to "prove" that lead is present in sufficient quantity on most shot game to instigate a public health risk of significance. Thing is, the FSA and others could find no evidence of this from their own work. It was only RSPB/WWT and others who actively pushed their agendas based on largely flawed and unsubstantiated claims using statistical evidence as yet unchallenged by formal peer review. It's a farce and an insult, and DEFRA hopefully will not be taken in by the scaremongering until at least some balance has been restored to the presentation of true, reviewed evidence.

 

If, as the LAG claim, their report is technically difficult to challenge due to the technical nature and statistical basis, then it ceases to become evidence and it is just formal speculation.

[wymberley]

"It's a farce and an insult, and DEFRA hopefully will not be taken in by the scaremongering until at least some balance has been restored to the presentation of true, reviewed evidence."

 

It is correct to say that, 'bullpoo baffles brains'. Fortunately, on this occasion it appears that it's failed to do so. As a peer review is to be undertaken, it would be good to know who by and what qualifies them to do so. Given this information, we could then possibly determine if the results of their work are both independent and valid.

Edited October 16, 2015 by wymberley

[Scully]

It isn't just the deliberate misinformation, exaggeration and plain bias which annoys me, but also the fact that once misleading information is in the public domain producers of consumables such as cereal crops can set a cynical precedent for claiming their products are lead free if they think it will increase sales, whether there is a risk from lead or otherwise, and once one manufacturer goes down this route others will follow.

If a company which produces cereal crops informs the grower of those cereal crops they wont buy off him unless he can guarantee there is no lead shot dropping onto his land then that landowner will ensure none does.

It's all about marketing a product, and facts are never allowed to interfere with profit.

In this scenario, as unlikely or likely as it is, we are then heading down the route of a lead shot ban via the back door.

[Les*1066]

Quote: 'But according to the Sunday Telegraph, the findings of the report has led to a split in the Lead Ammunition Group, with landowners, shooters and game dealers resigning from the group en masse saying there is no 'sound scientific evidence' to support the claims'.

 

It surprises me that they ever signed up to it in the first place.

[panoma1]

Quote: 'But according to the Sunday Telegraph, the findings of the report has led to a split in the Lead Ammunition Group, with landowners, shooters and game dealers resigning from the group en masse saying there is no 'sound scientific evidence' to support the claims'.

 

It surprises me that they ever signed up to it in the first place.

It was apparantly not just the lack of scientific evidence to substantiate the claims of the anti lead (anti shooting!) side, it was their outrageous conduct, misinformation, deliberate disregard of process and blind stonewalling bias which led to the resignations.

 

The pro lead "side" couldn't do other than take part, if the "anti" lead side were allowed to report to DEFRA and the FSA unchallenged, lead ammunition would probably be banned on a catalogue of lies, misinformation, emotive claptrap and anti shooting bias by now?

 

The anti shooting lobby will stoop to any level to get shooting restricted and ultimately banned this is what the pressure by the covertly anti shooting RSPB and WWT on DEFRA and the FSA was all about.........typical lefty/extremist/terrorist tactic......to them the end justifies the means.

[Savhmr]

It isn't just the deliberate misinformation, exaggeration and plain bias which annoys me, but also the fact that once misleading information is in the public domain producers of consumables such as cereal crops can set a cynical precedent for claiming their products are lead free if they think it will increase sales, whether there is a risk from lead or otherwise, and once one manufacturer goes down this route others will follow.

If a company which produces cereal crops informs the grower of those cereal crops they wont buy off him unless he can guarantee there is no lead shot dropping onto his land then that landowner will ensure none does.

It's all about marketing a product, and facts are never allowed to interfere with profit.

In this scenario, as unlikely or likely as it is, we are then heading down the route of a lead shot ban via the back door.

 

Absolutely....and of course as we all know, there's absolutely no health consequences from ingestion of steel alloy compounds and Bizmuth now, is there? (hint...yes there is).

[McSpredder]

Rhys Green (RSPB) and Deborah Pain (WWT) assert that “consumption of <1 meal of game a week may be associated with a one point reduction in IQ in children.” A recent government report suggests people living in Scotland are much more likely to eat game “fairly regularly” than those in the rest of UK. Figures given were 7% of the population for Scotland, compared with 5% for UK as a whole (ie Scots are 40% more likely to be regular eaters of game).

 

With such a large difference between Scotland and rest of UK, any effects on IQ ought to be easily measurable. Do school exam results indicate that Scottish children are more likely to be of low intelligence than children from other parts of UK? Is there any other evidence suggesting that low IQ is more prevalent in Scotland than in elsewhere?

 

Presumably rates of game consumption might be higher in rural areas than in cities. Is there any evidence that people living in the Highlands or Perthshire or Dumfriesshire are more likely to have low IQ than those from the central belt of Scotland? Is there evidence that the population of other sparsely populated areas of UK (eg Cumbria, North Devon, Mid-Wales, Fermanagh) have measurably low intelligence levels?

 

[wymberley]

Rhys Green (RSPB) and Deborah Pain (WWT) assert that “consumption of <1 meal of game a week may be associated with a one point reduction in IQ in children.” A recent government report suggests people living in Scotland are much more likely to eat game “fairly regularly” than those in the rest of UK. Figures given were 7% of the population for Scotland, compared with 5% for UK as a whole (ie Scots are 40% more likely to be regular eaters of game).

 

With such a large difference between Scotland and rest of UK, any effects on IQ ought to be easily measurable. Do school exam results indicate that Scottish children are more likely to be of low intelligence than children from other parts of UK? Is there any other evidence suggesting that low IQ is more prevalent in Scotland than in elsewhere?

 

Presumably rates of game consumption might be higher in rural areas than in cities. Is there any evidence that people living in the Highlands or Perthshire or Dumfriesshire are more likely to have low IQ than those from the central belt of Scotland? Is there evidence that the population of other sparsely populated areas of UK (eg Cumbria, North Devon, Mid-Wales, Fermanagh) have measurably low intelligence levels?

 

Of all the posts on the subject of lead/NTS this one stands out head and shoulders above the rest - this inspite of the fact that there have been other truly excellent ones. Why? Because education/school performance tables are readily available. Consequently, compiling the statistics obtained from the Government's own figures it would (for those with the appropriate nous) be straightforward to reflect the point that Mc is making. Laid out in an appropriate format a report of this nature would almost certainly be picked up by the national media organisations. The result would be nothing short of having the rug very firmly being pulled from under Pain and Green to such an extent that they'd have great difficulty in recovering the moral high ground, if at all. There really is something delightful about being given the opportunity to turn the argument put forward by such despicable people around and use it against them.

 

So, BASC, CA, whoever, you've been handed the opportunity to cover yourselves in glory on a silver platter and you really, really should not waste it.

Edited October 16, 2015 by wymberley

[Savhmr]

Quote from McSpredder's excellent post:

 

"Rhys Green (RSPB) and Deborah Pain (WWT) assert that “consumption of <1 meal of game a week may be associated with a one point reduction in IQ in children.”

 

Response: "Senior staff at the RSPB and WWT must eat a hell of a lot of game meat then!"

Edited October 16, 2015 by Savhmr

[panoma1]

Rhys Green (RSPB) and Deborah Pain (WWT) assert that “consumption of <1 meal of game a week may be associated with a one point reduction in IQ in children.” A recent government report suggests people living in Scotland are much more likely to eat game “fairly regularly” than those in the rest of UK. Figures given were 7% of the population for Scotland, compared with 5% for UK as a whole (ie Scots are 40% more likely to be regular eaters of game).

 

With such a large difference between Scotland and rest of UK, any effects on IQ ought to be easily measurable. Do school exam results indicate that Scottish children are more likely to be of low intelligence than children from other parts of UK? Is there any other evidence suggesting that low IQ is more prevalent in Scotland than in elsewhere?

 

Presumably rates of game consumption might be higher in rural areas than in cities. Is there any evidence that people living in the Highlands or Perthshire or Dumfriesshire are more likely to have low IQ than those from the central belt of Scotland? Is there evidence that the population of other sparsely populated areas of UK (eg Cumbria, North Devon, Mid-Wales, Fermanagh) have measurably low intelligence levels?

 

Note the wording......"may be associated with one point reduction in IQ in children" another number plucked out of the air dressed up to appear as fact! And designed to scare and mislead the public into supporting a ban on lead ammunition.

[Jega]

What a load of absolute tripe from the tree hugging lentil munching sandal wearing retards ,people of my era were brought up in homes which had 100% lead plumbing ..yep all the pipe work in our houses was lead up until about 1970 ish or so .

In my own case thats about 13 years of drinking water that was delivered through lead pipework,which equated to a hell of lot more exposure to and ingestion of lead than a few bits of shot in a rabbit or the like .

Like many on here i've also been eating shot game for the majority of my life and all this with no ill effects whatsoever.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Jega

[panoma1]

What a load of absolute tripe from the tree hugging lentil munching sandal wearing retards ,people of my era were brought up in homes which had 100% lead plumbing ..yep all the pipe work in our houses was lead up until about 1970 ish or so .

In my own case thats about 13 years of drinking water that was delivered through lead pipework,which equated to a hell of lot more exposure to and ingestion of lead than a few bits of shot in a rabbit or the like .

Like many on here i've also been eating shot game for the majority of my life and all this with no ill effects whatsoever.

That's the point jega, how do you or more importantly they know what your IQ would have been (as opposed to what it is now) if you hadn't drunk water through lead pipes or eaten game shot with lead ammunition?

 

They are trying to dress speculation up as fact! Where is the scientific evidence/proof to support their assertions?.....there ain't none!