rodp Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 Hmm, already started to gag any opposition http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35288163 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) Its damage limitation. He knows how it will go and there are going to be fireworks so he is trying to keep a lid on things for as long as possible. That won't change the outcome, Edited January 12, 2016 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les*1066 Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 It's all a con anyway, Comrades ..... the votes have already been counted, and we are staying in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 He needs to be able to keep a working government, respected by Europe and the rest of the world, arguments brought down to a level of cherry picking through recent 'fails or success' would very much undermine the credibility of the U.K. As a whole. It really does seem like such an easy task asking for an in or out referendum, reality is done wrong it'll wreck not only the Conservatives but the country too. I think he's a very brave man taking the task on..... why do you think the other party leaders have shirked the subject for so long, self or party ruination is highly likely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) I don't really get the 'ruination' part, either on a personal or party level. What is the worst that could happen to Cameron? Losing the leadership and retiring to his Chipping Norton house and living in millionaire splendour? Edited January 12, 2016 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 The Tory's have kept a lid on their internal simmering Euroscepticism incredbily well recently, a few years ago it was a major issue for them and they don't want to look as divided as Labour - although they'd have to really balls up to look as bad as them at the moment. I think paul223 is pretty much spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 and he knows there is a genuine threat from UKIP unless he appears to be offering a say on EU membership, even if he isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 I don't think there is any threat from UKIP, this isn't about them or any particular party, it's about how he is to try to hold together a fracture in his party and govern the country, not an easy job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 and he knows there is a genuine threat from UKIP unless he appears to be offering a say on EU membership, even if he isn't. I don't see UKIP as a genuine threat in that sense, but UKIP have certainly made all the other parties sit up and reconsider/change/introduce some new policies, which can't be a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) Remember although ukip didn't win too many seats they took a very large part of the UK vote country wide If dave didn't make his referendum promise then it's far from unlikely we would have Nigel in number ten If he doesn't forfill his promise then frankly it's game over because the public will not stand for more major lies from political parties Not sure if the gag or rather part gag is to protect his own decisions from critic or protect the party. It might even be an attempt to swing the result Either way it's a good negotiation tactic for us to have in what I honestly feel is a staged resistance to previously sanctioned ideas from the rest of Europe The guys ain't dumb they know it's gone pear shaped it's just they don't want to party to end having great fun manipulating things in Brussels Edited January 12, 2016 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nial Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 "Remember although ukip didn't win too many seats they took a very large part of the UK vote country wide" Didn't they get more votes than the SNP who have ended up with 56 55 54 53 52 ish MPs Sorry, it's hard to keep track with all the scandals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyxologos Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 the votes have already been counted, and we are staying in. Hopefully! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted January 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 Hopefully NOT! You must have had a typo there, fixed it for you :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bb Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 Well, they recently had an equally fair free vote in North Korea and 97.7% of the electorate turned out for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted January 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 Well, they recently had an equally fair free vote in North Korea and 97.7% of the electorate turned out for it! And the other 2.3% got shot for not turning out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossberg-operator Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) Cameron has made a promise on the EU referendum. To have short term political gain. He knows leaving the EU will be bad for the UK and to the EU too. Not saying that the EU is good. Saying without it we gonna be outsiders again. So, the PM dug us /himself this s...hole. Now he has been trying to do damage limitations... A laughing stock in Europe with his demands. Just run to Germany, Hungary to beg for support. The Hungarian PM flew to Warsaw the day before to consult with the Polish PM what to say together. Meeting between Orban and Cameron: agreed on everything except the 4 year EU benefit ban, so achieved nothing. Again. A laughing stock in the UK trying to sell us the pathetic achievements. He is in the corner in this one. Big time. Edited January 12, 2016 by londonercsecse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 Okay, I had a long conversation with a local MP about this very subject... and as far as I could gather (and some of the conversation I have to admit went over my head a little and I'm not too terribly thick), invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is a complete Red Herring and there already exists a perfectly fit and suitable method to utterly reject the EU and demands from Brussels within our own existing Parliamentary laws. We simply tell them to jog-on. What the tabled method does (in a very condensed version) is this.. 1). We have a referendum 2). Say the outcome is overwhelmingly in favour of telling the frog and sausage eaters to jog-on, and so we tell them to do one. 3). They all have a vote to see if we can leave them - but we're not invited to vote. 4). They decide it's their football and we have to play by their rules. 5). Status Quo remains, we're still stuck with it. Have I understood all this very wrong or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) Okay, I had a long conversation with a local MP about this very subject... and as far as I could gather (and some of the conversation I have to admit went over my head a little and I'm not too terribly thick), invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is a complete Red Herring and there already exists a perfectly fit and suitable method to utterly reject the EU and demands from Brussels within our own existing Parliamentary laws. We simply tell them to jog-on. What the tabled method does (in a very condensed version) is this.. 1). We have a referendum 2). Say the outcome is overwhelmingly in favour of telling the frog and sausage eaters to jog-on, and so we tell them to do one. 3). They all have a vote to see if we can leave them - but we're not invited to vote. 4). They decide it's their football and we have to play by their rules. 5). Status Quo remains, we're still stuck with it. Have I understood all this very wrong or no? Okay, I had a long conversation with a local MP about this very subject... and as far as I could gather (and some of the conversation I have to admit went over my head a little and I'm not too terribly thick), invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is a complete Red Herring and there already exists a perfectly fit and suitable method to utterly reject the EU and demands from Brussels within our own existing Parliamentary laws. We simply tell them to jog-on. What the tabled method does (in a very condensed version) is this.. 1). We have a referendum 2). Say the outcome is overwhelmingly in favour of telling the frog and sausage eaters to jog-on, and so we tell them to do one. 3). They all have a vote to see if we can leave them - but we're not invited to vote. 4). They decide it's their football and we have to play by their rules. 5). Status Quo remains, we're still stuck with it. Have I understood all this very wrong or no? I think you have it about right. Edited January 12, 2016 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodp Posted January 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 Okay, I had a long conversation with a local MP about this very subject... and as far as I could gather (and some of the conversation I have to admit went over my head a little and I'm not too terribly thick), invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is a complete Red Herring and there already exists a perfectly fit and suitable method to utterly reject the EU and demands from Brussels within our own existing Parliamentary laws. We simply tell them to jog-on. What the tabled method does (in a very condensed version) is this.. 1). We have a referendum 2). Say the outcome is overwhelmingly in favour of telling the frog and sausage eaters to jog-on, and so we tell them to do one. 3). They all have a vote to see if we can leave them - but we're not invited to vote. 4). They decide it's their football and we have to play by their rules. 5). Status Quo remains, we're still stuck with it. Have I understood all this very wrong or no? Or .............. they do what exactly ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 leaving the EU will be bad for the UK and to the EU too. . without it we gonna be outsiders again.. Why will it be bad for the UK? Why will it be bad for the EU? Outside of what exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Bb Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 1 Why will it be bad for the UK? 2 Why will it be bad for the EU? 3 Outside of what exactly? 1 It won't. 2 Because once we go key others (gross contributors) will follow until the whole pack of cards comes tumbling down. 3 A failed experiment. A quasi-communist super state. A totally corrupt bunch of self-servers. A completely disparate collection of nations that never will be able to work together. Need I go on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 1 It won't. 2 Because once we go key others (gross contributors) will follow until the whole pack of cards comes tumbling down. 3 A failed experiment. A quasi-communist super state. A totally corrupt bunch of self-servers. A completely disparate collection of nations that never will be able to work together. Need I go on? I think I get your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 roll on the vote cant wait for it,the sooner were out the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) This is my/his point. A vote won't matter. We vote no, they vote to ignore our vote, we're still in. Only we don't get a say on the vote they all have to see if we can leave or not. Seems a bit of a EU magic trick and we already have a perfectly good existing Parliamentary law (see core theory) that can tell them to poke the lot, referendum or no. But there's no mention of that. No conspiracy to shaft the UK citizens there then. Edited January 12, 2016 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick miller Posted January 12, 2016 Report Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) What has actually happened in recent years (since the EU Gestapo took charge) is that we get various new laws proposed in our Parliament that breeze through masquerading as English (or British) law that are nothing other than EU diktats passed down from the führer's in Brussels. Edited January 12, 2016 by mick miller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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