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So much for a fair referendum then


rodp
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He needs to be able to keep a working government, respected by Europe and the rest of the world, arguments brought down to a level of cherry picking through recent 'fails or success' would very much undermine the credibility of the U.K. As a whole.

It really does seem like such an easy task asking for an in or out referendum, reality is done wrong it'll wreck not only the Conservatives but the country too.

 

I think he's a very brave man taking the task on..... why do you think the other party leaders have shirked the subject for so long, self or party ruination is highly likely!

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The Tory's have kept a lid on their internal simmering Euroscepticism incredbily well recently, a few years ago it was a major issue for them and they don't want to look as divided as Labour - although they'd have to really balls up to look as bad as them at the moment.

 

I think paul223 is pretty much spot on.

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and he knows there is a genuine threat from UKIP unless he appears to be offering a say on EU membership, even if he isn't.

 

 

I don't see UKIP as a genuine threat in that sense, but UKIP have certainly made all the other parties sit up and reconsider/change/introduce some new policies, which can't be a bad thing.

 

:good:

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Remember although ukip didn't win too many seats they took a very large part of the UK vote country wide

If dave didn't make his referendum promise then it's far from unlikely we would have Nigel in number ten

If he doesn't forfill his promise then frankly it's game over because the public will not stand for more major lies from political parties

 

Not sure if the gag or rather part gag is to protect his own decisions from critic or protect the party. It might even be an attempt to swing the result

Either way it's a good negotiation tactic for us to have in what I honestly feel is a staged resistance to previously sanctioned ideas from the rest of Europe

The guys ain't dumb they know it's gone pear shaped it's just they don't want to party to end having great fun manipulating things in Brussels

Edited by kent
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"Remember although ukip didn't win too many seats they took a very large part of the UK vote country wide"

 

Didn't they get more votes than the SNP who have ended up with 56 55 54 53 52 ish MPs

 

Sorry, it's hard to keep track with all the scandals.

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Cameron has made a promise on the EU referendum. To have short term political gain. He knows leaving the EU will be bad for the UK and to the EU too. Not saying that the EU is good. Saying without it we gonna be outsiders again. So, the PM dug us /himself this s...hole. Now he has been trying to do damage limitations... A laughing stock in Europe with his demands. Just run to Germany, Hungary to beg for support. The Hungarian PM flew to Warsaw the day before to consult with the Polish PM what to say together. Meeting between Orban and Cameron: agreed on everything except the 4 year EU benefit ban, so achieved nothing. Again. A laughing stock in the UK trying to sell us the pathetic achievements. He is in the corner in this one. Big time.

Edited by londonercsecse
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Okay, I had a long conversation with a local MP about this very subject... and as far as I could gather (and some of the conversation I have to admit went over my head a little and I'm not too terribly thick), invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is a complete Red Herring and there already exists a perfectly fit and suitable method to utterly reject the EU and demands from Brussels within our own existing Parliamentary laws. We simply tell them to jog-on.

 

What the tabled method does (in a very condensed version) is this..

 

1). We have a referendum

2). Say the outcome is overwhelmingly in favour of telling the frog and sausage eaters to jog-on, and so we tell them to do one.

3). They all have a vote to see if we can leave them - but we're not invited to vote.

4). They decide it's their football and we have to play by their rules.

5). Status Quo remains, we're still stuck with it.

 

Have I understood all this very wrong or no?

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Okay, I had a long conversation with a local MP about this very subject... and as far as I could gather (and some of the conversation I have to admit went over my head a little and I'm not too terribly thick), invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is a complete Red Herring and there already exists a perfectly fit and suitable method to utterly reject the EU and demands from Brussels within our own existing Parliamentary laws. We simply tell them to jog-on.

 

What the tabled method does (in a very condensed version) is this..

 

1). We have a referendum

2). Say the outcome is overwhelmingly in favour of telling the frog and sausage eaters to jog-on, and so we tell them to do one.

3). They all have a vote to see if we can leave them - but we're not invited to vote.

4). They decide it's their football and we have to play by their rules.

5). Status Quo remains, we're still stuck with it.

 

Have I understood all this very wrong or no?

 

Okay, I had a long conversation with a local MP about this very subject... and as far as I could gather (and some of the conversation I have to admit went over my head a little and I'm not too terribly thick), invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is a complete Red Herring and there already exists a perfectly fit and suitable method to utterly reject the EU and demands from Brussels within our own existing Parliamentary laws. We simply tell them to jog-on.

 

What the tabled method does (in a very condensed version) is this..

 

1). We have a referendum

2). Say the outcome is overwhelmingly in favour of telling the frog and sausage eaters to jog-on, and so we tell them to do one.

3). They all have a vote to see if we can leave them - but we're not invited to vote.

4). They decide it's their football and we have to play by their rules.

5). Status Quo remains, we're still stuck with it.

 

Have I understood all this very wrong or no?

I think you have it about right.

Edited by Vince Green
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Okay, I had a long conversation with a local MP about this very subject... and as far as I could gather (and some of the conversation I have to admit went over my head a little and I'm not too terribly thick), invoking Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty is a complete Red Herring and there already exists a perfectly fit and suitable method to utterly reject the EU and demands from Brussels within our own existing Parliamentary laws. We simply tell them to jog-on.

 

What the tabled method does (in a very condensed version) is this..

 

1). We have a referendum

2). Say the outcome is overwhelmingly in favour of telling the frog and sausage eaters to jog-on, and so we tell them to do one.

3). They all have a vote to see if we can leave them - but we're not invited to vote.

4). They decide it's their football and we have to play by their rules.

5). Status Quo remains, we're still stuck with it.

 

Have I understood all this very wrong or no?

Or .............. they do what exactly ?

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1 Why will it be bad for the UK?

 

2 Why will it be bad for the EU?

 

3 Outside of what exactly?

 

1 It won't.

 

2 Because once we go key others (gross contributors) will follow until the whole pack of cards comes tumbling down.

 

3 A failed experiment. A quasi-communist super state. A totally corrupt bunch of self-servers. A completely disparate collection of nations that never will be able to work together. Need I go on?

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1 It won't.

 

2 Because once we go key others (gross contributors) will follow until the whole pack of cards comes tumbling down.

 

3 A failed experiment. A quasi-communist super state. A totally corrupt bunch of self-servers. A completely disparate collection of nations that never will be able to work together. Need I go on?

 

I think I get your point. :lol:

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This is my/his point. A vote won't matter. We vote no, they vote to ignore our vote, we're still in. Only we don't get a say on the vote they all have to see if we can leave or not.

 

Seems a bit of a EU magic trick and we already have a perfectly good existing Parliamentary law (see core theory) that can tell them to poke the lot, referendum or no. But there's no mention of that.

 

No conspiracy to shaft the UK citizens there then.

Edited by mick miller
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What has actually happened in recent years (since the EU Gestapo took charge) is that we get various new laws proposed in our Parliament that breeze through masquerading as English (or British) law that are nothing other than EU diktats passed down from the führer's in Brussels.

Edited by mick miller
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