ChrisPCarter Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 I'm thinking of getting some reloading gear but I've only just started reading up on it since starting to use a 20g and 410 more in the last year or so. I don't mind spending a bit of money upfront if it's going to make savings in the long run. I'd like to make up: 12g cartridges for clays and pigeons in reasonable quantity - I probably shoot about 500 a month on average, a lot more if I have a few good days pigeon shooting or a special trip out further afield clay shooting where I might get through a slab in a weekend. 20g mainly for pigeons and the odd bit of game shooting - At the moment I don't shoot many due to the cost, when it makes sense to use the cheaper 12g. 410 standard and subsonic for a few pigeons and pests - As above I don't shoot that many so costs are high relatively speaking. At the moment I probably only use a couple of boxes of each per month but I'd like to use a lot more if I can get the cost down to 12g prices or less. What would be the best kit to start out with that can handle all of these sizes but concentrating on 20g and 410 as these are what cost me most. Am I better off buying something cheap that will do all gauges initially and then get a better press for producing 12 gauge in quantity? Or is there something that will do them all quickly at a reasonable price? Am I likely to make much of a saving on 20g and 410? I usually just buy a slab of each so I guess they cost me about £70 for 410 and £80 for 20g depending on what I get. Likely savings for 12g? What else will I need regarding kit? Am I going to need a load of different powders to make these up? I'm thinking I could probably get by with 6 & 8 shot for most of what I do to start with. What are the rules re buying and storing powder etc? There's probably lots I haven't considered so feel free to fill me in! Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 You will almost never break even. I did once or twice. Can't be of much help. Reloading 12 with lead is a loss already, unless specialist loads. If you were dead set on reloading, reload the calibre you most enjoy shooting. You don't have to just reload exclusively. I shoot mainly factory now. The shells you mention are the better value calibre's. Cheapest kit loadall2 Lee. They don't do 410. Weighing Ballance. Needed - essential. Contact John at Folkestone engineering supplies. Last time I heard he sells reloading kits. All the stuff. Use any shotsizes you want. I like 4s No powder storage issues. No smoking. Aquire a book.read book. Ask questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 You won't save money unless you shoot a lot of 410. Add to that the time and the kit costs. If your loading 10 g or bigger or any shells that are small and pricey like 410 but the reason both ends are dear is few buy 5000 at a time and dealers don't keep them in vast quantity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) As above you will struggle to break even esspecialy if you are not crerative in gathering components shot etc. Used mec in 12 would be a start, with a new lee load all in 20ga. This way you are up and running with a 12 which you will probably load more on, and you have a cheapish working 20bore pres, you will get most of your money back should you ever decide to upgrade. Claygame is probably a good bet for you getting wads powder etc, decide what you want go down buy in bulk, and if you need any other powders or your new lee loadall you could pass Tim Hanoms on the old A1 at sth millford on your way up or down. Shot is a problem, its expensive to buy, but reclaimed lead shot is around at about 1 to 1.50 a killo dependent. Then there is producing your own can be ecconomical , sitts in hedges pinned post tells it all. Getting the lead could be a problem but it is an option and might i add another aspect of reloading you might want to undertake. If i can reload it i will it is a sure fire way of getting exactly what you need, produce your ammo to suit and pattern in your you own guns barrel etc and you have one more link in the chain you know you can trust. Cant beat reloading IMO. Edited March 25, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiep Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 For 410, it's entirely possible to load by hand. All you need is a hammer, nail and block of wood (for de-priming), a multibit-type screwdriver (with no bit in place, for seating new primers), a set of scales for the powder and shot, and a RTO tool (fitted in a cordless drill) for closing over the tops. Add primers, powder, wads, shot and a card for the overshot, and you're away to go. You will make small savings on 410. Minimal savings on 20. No savings on 12 (might be more expensive than buying for 12 bore) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 If your loading 10 g or bigger or any shells that are small and pricey like 410 but the reason both ends are dear is few buy 5000 at a time and dealers don't keep them in vast quantity Just about sums it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Hunter Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 I reload 12g Clay loads not to save money,but as part of my hobby of shooting.And hobbies do have a habit of costing money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPCarter Posted March 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Great this is the stuff I want to find out about. I am interested in reloading so I can make some custom loads too but I was hoping there might still be a small saving - I guess not, or at least not much! Which book would you recommend? I've seen a couple from USA but they appear to be very different materials and probably not much use. It reminds me of another hobby of mine, fly fishing and fly tying. I started tying flies thinking it might save me a few quid but years later I probably have hundreds, if not thousands of pounds worth of materials and I'm on the committee of the Fly Dressers Guild ha ha! I should have stuck to buying flies at a pound each from the local fishing shop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Lyman shotshell handbook 5th edition . it covers the basics and lots of technical details, everyone can learn from this manual no matter how long you have been doing it. Good thing about alliant is lots of data and you can get it all just by hopping on the A1 and heading south to Tim hanoms. you can order most things you will need from siarm in italy, without leaving home. time and fuel could make this your best option. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 your paying way too much at £80 per slab for 20g,last eley vip 28g f/w no6 cost me £64 for a slab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 You can reload 20 gauge for under £100/1K if you work at it. Finding free lead is a good start. I advertised a big pile of woodworking magazines for free on this forum. The chap who took them very generously rewarded me with 20kg of scrap lead. Win/Win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Lyman shotshell handbook 5th edition . it covers the basics and lots of technical details, everyone can learn from this manual no matter how long you have been doing it. Good thing about alliant is lots of data and you can get it all just by hopping on the A1 and heading south to Tim hanoms. . OR NOT! Best to order Alliant powder from folk that STOCK IT. Tim Hannams have not stocked Alliant for a good three or four years now! Look at the Rick Sapp book as well as the Lyman 5th Edition....only shotshell reloading books I class as junk are the ones Kenneth Couger wrote. In the USA a firm makes a copy of the Lee Loader kit type reloading set....the Lanes Loader....or Lane Loader, in 410 CircleFly do all the card & felt wads. Ballistic Products are worth looking at too. No ITAR from the USA on shotshell stuff....exempt. Look on fourten dot org dot uk for other 410 ideas. Brass cases would be an easier option for long term savings & easier reloading set up. 20-ga may still be a saving depending on loads & recipe used. 12-ga is more difficult to save money on, but still possible. I save a ton on this caliber but load only slug & a few buckshot. The fun & satisfaction of making your own ammo should not be overlooked....nor should the convenience of being able to fine tune to suit your needs & not being reliant on local stocks of whatever cartridge the big firms decide to produce. Check online for used presses. European sites as well as in the USA. I put a wanted ad on a USA forum....the reply came from a seller in Inverness! Last press I bought cost $90. Sells for £300 - £380 new in the UK. Will cost about $70 to ship over. MEC Sizemaster. Look & see what is out there. Stick to single stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 OR NOT! Best to order Alliant powder from folk that STOCK IT. Tim Hannams have not stocked Alliant for a good three or four years now! Look at the Rick Sapp book as well as the Lyman 5th Edition....only shotshell reloading books I class as junk are the ones Kenneth Couger wrote. In the USA a firm makes a copy of the Lee Loader kit type reloading set....the Lanes Loader....or Lane Loader, in 410 CircleFly do all the card & felt wads. Ballistic Products are worth looking at too. No ITAR from the USA on shotshell stuff....exempt. Look on fourten dot org dot uk for other 410 ideas. Brass cases would be an easier option for long term savings & easier reloading set up. 20-ga may still be a saving depending on loads & recipe used. 12-ga is more difficult to save money on, but still possible. I save a ton on this caliber but load only slug & a few buckshot. The fun & satisfaction of making your own ammo should not be overlooked....nor should the convenience of being able to fine tune to suit your needs & not being reliant on local stocks of whatever cartridge the big firms decide to produce. Check online for used presses. European sites as well as in the USA. I put a wanted ad on a USA forum....the reply came from a seller in Inverness! Last press I bought cost $90. Sells for £300 - £380 new in the UK. Will cost about $70 to ship over. MEC Sizemaster. Look & see what is out there. Stick to single stage. Well all i can say i got my last three tubs or alliant reloader 22 for the 7mm from tim less than 18 months ago could have been old stock he had left i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saddler Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 Well all i can say i got my last three tubs or alliant reloader 22 for the 7mm from tim less than 18 months ago could have been old stock he had left i guess. Tim was over from his home in Thailand about then for a holiday, so anything is possible: Tim has had little to do with the firm for about 15-20 years as he lost it to his ex-wife as part of the divorce. My last three or four years of Hannams catalogues don't show Alliant as available & I was told there were no stocks left: not going into WHY they lost the Alliant brand in a public forum, not their doing, just another thin skinned importer trying to empire build & chucking his teddy out of the pram! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 For the shotguns i use one powder only Vectan AS does all my clay and pigeon cartridges... Chris see you are in north yorkshire where about are you..if close you could call for a coffee and have a look at my gear might give you some ideas on kit needed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deershooter Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 For the shotguns i use one powder only Vectan AS does all my clay and pigeon cartridges... Chris see you are in north yorkshire where about are you..if close you could call for a coffee and have a look at my gear might give you some ideas on kit needed.. As might be suitable for 20 gauge but it's a big NO NO In .410 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkeye Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 As might be suitable for 20 gauge but it's a big NO NO In .410 I only reload 12g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Tim was over from his home in Thailand about then for a holiday, so anything is possible: Tim has had little to do with the firm for about 15-20 years as he lost it to his ex-wife as part of the divorce. My last three or four years of Hannams catalogues don't show Alliant as available & I was told there were no stocks left: not going into WHY they lost the Alliant brand in a public forum, not their doing, just another thin skinned importer trying to empire build & chucking his teddy out of the pram! This teedy throwing is rife around reloading, its why we are struggling to get bulk powder at a realistic rate anymore. Edited March 25, 2016 by TONY R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted March 25, 2016 Report Share Posted March 25, 2016 You will almost never break even. I did once or twice. Can't be of much help. Reloading 12 with lead is a loss already, unless specialist loads. If you were dead set on reloading, reload the calibre you most enjoy shooting. You don't have to just reload exclusively. I shoot mainly factory now. The shells you mention are the better value calibre's. Cheapest kit loadall2 Lee. They don't do 410. Weighing Ballance. Needed - essential. Contact John at Folkestone engineering supplies. Last time I heard he sells reloading kits. All the stuff. Use any shotsizes you want. I like 4s No powder storage issues. No smoking. Aquire a book.read book. Ask questions. sums it up beware reloading can be very interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 Great this is the stuff I want to find out about. I am interested in reloading so I can make some custom loads too but I was hoping there might still be a small saving - I guess not, or at least not much! Which book would you recommend? I've seen a couple from USA but they appear to be very different materials and probably not much use. It reminds me of another hobby of mine, fly fishing and fly tying. I started tying flies thinking it might save me a few quid but years later I probably have hundreds, if not thousands of pounds worth of materials and I'm on the committee of the Fly Dressers Guild ha ha! I should have stuck to buying flies at a pound each from the local fishing shop! Hi. PM me...I think I can help you....with advice AND equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 in 20g you'll make saving on heavy-magnum loads, possibly start to save on regular loads after the 1k shells if you recycle shells, sooner if you have free lead. when i Started made the following assumptions: Vectan powders @ £19.5 x 1/2 KG a load of 27gr No 5 @ £3.4 x Kg B&P Wads If you use a normal recipe (in my case i was using 1,35 x 27) the calcs for 1000 shells would be as follow Powder 1.35 Kg = £51.3 Lead 27 Kg = £91.8 1000 B&P= £19 Total= £162.1 At the time, was pretty good for the load the problems start when you get hooked and start experimenting with new powders, recipes, etc.... or when you get tired of recycling and re-priming old shells and buy new ones But for me is an extension of the my shooting passion, and there is no better satisfaction than landing quarry with something you thought, develop and produced yourself. Beside, where I live there's probably one of the most expensive gunshop on earth so, either i go local and waste a fortune, go far and waste petrol, use just cartridges or... spend a little more to make my own .... no brainer really!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 Do these reloads work without primers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TONY R Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 He will most probably not have taken them into account, due to his night time job stripping. Was a good way of getting thousands of primers for little money. I bought and sold that many scrappers i paid for what i have now and they will last me a lifetime, two lifetimes perhaps and there will be many more like me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBob Posted March 26, 2016 Report Share Posted March 26, 2016 I reloaded for years, nowadays I couldn't even come close to factory ammo, especially if thete's a discount, or special offer. Just Cartridges are selling the 3" Fiocchi magnum .410 for £246 a thousand, Ian Coley £245,you will find better if you look around. You will not be able to match these prices, especially if you factor in the time, effort and hassle. Might be better to split a thousand with a mate, or simply save up over a couple of months. You're paying a fortune for twenties. The Countryman, Derby, has Eley Hi-Flyer, fibre 28g at 238 a thousand, for example. You can find deals if you look. Four individual slabs, at eighty quid a throw, is £320 ! Save up, or split with a mate........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Continental Shooter Posted March 27, 2016 Report Share Posted March 27, 2016 Do these reloads work without primers Ipse dixit the problems start when you get hooked and start experimenting with new powders, recipes, etc.... or when you get tired of recycling and re-priming old shells and buy new ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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