Scully Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 I think you will find that smokers.drinkers.druggies.and lazy people are currently denied some treatment as it would be a waste of time and resources to treat them while they continue with the activities that caused the condition in the first place.whats the point of doing a expensive bypass operation only to have them go home and reach for the fags and booze again or the lazy overeating getting surgery to reduce their bulk for them to stop off at McDonald's on the way home and fill up with burgers before retiring to their armchairs in front of the TV again.as with all things costs have to be weighed against the benefits as a whole. Not true in my experience. My mother, after a lifetime of smoking developed lung cancer at the age of 85 and was offered chemo' on the NHS. She refused. Two heavy drinkers I knew; one a good friend but now both dead, had limbs and partial limbs removed on the NHS, as a result of their excessive drinking. They carried on drinking. A good friends wife ( Big Shirl' ) has had one of those stomach band thingies fitted on the NHS after breaking her ankle and being told that unless she lost weight it wouldn't heal properly. She is still Big Shirl' and walks with a limp. Addiction is a terrible thing, that is why some people crave the very thing which is killing them. Ever been in that situation MIck? Nightmare. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just not as you claim in many circumstances. If people pay into the system they shouldn't be denied treatment; that's the whole idea. Those of us that can afford it pay into the system on behalf of those who can't afford it. It's not a perfect system and like any other is open to abuse, but what do you suggest as an alternative Mick? Shoot friends Dad is going for a hip replacement operation. He's 74 so his best years are clearly behind him, so if we follow the logic of some what's the point? It's not up to you me or anyone else to decide who should or shouldn't be denied treatment. Who's playing god now? One of my former GP's ( a smoker incidentally ) once told me, 'its not my job to tell you how to lead your life, but to try and put it right when it goes wrong'. I liked his attitude. I was watching a programme the other day when a well known GP/presenter was interviewed who said that currently the NHS spends £1.000.000 per hour 24/7 365 days a year on treatment of Type 2 diabetes as a direct result of obesity, and that figure was increasing all the time. She said it was unsustainable and that in a matter of a few years that figure would be up to £5.000.000 per hour.....this is JUST on treatment of type 2 diabetes remember. She forecast that if something didn't change then the NHS was heading for total collapse. The programme was about whether there should be government intervention through legislation against obesity, but no one could answer how it would work. Can you? I realise we've veered way off topic now, and for that I apologise; but it all comes down to the same thing, namely what do we treat on the NHS and who should or shouldn't benefit? It's ok and dead easy to have opinions, but things are very rarely as black and white as some would hope or claim, and stubbornly blinkered simplistic attitudes offer no solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Having lived in parts of the world where medical treatment was not state funded I find the attitude to the NHS in this country a bit strange. Some people think anything and everything should be possible, I'm afraid I don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) taking most of the views on here to there illogical conclusion, the NHS should not pander to Smokers Drinkers, Gluttons, including people who eat the wrong food Druggies Lazy people Energetic people Sportsmen, especially dangerous sports The accident prone Foreign people Sexually active (same sex) Over sexually active (opposite sex) Im sure theres plenty more I don't see why we should pander to people. If I didn't change the oil in my car would a warranty company fit a new engine when it fails? If I didn't lock my front door would the insurance pay out when I got burgled? Edited August 4, 2016 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 taking most of the views on here to there illogical conclusion, the NHS should not pander to Smokers Drinkers, Gluttons, including people who eat the wrong food Druggies Lazy people Energetic people Sportsmen, especially dangerous sports The accident prone Foreign people Sexually active (same sex) Over sexually active (opposite sex) Im sure theres plenty more I think you will find that smokers.drinkers.druggies.and lazy people are currently denied some treatment as it would be a waste of time and resources to treat them while they continue with the activities that caused the condition in the first place.whats the point of doing a expensive bypass operation only to have them go home and reach for the fags and booze again or the lazy overeating getting surgery to reduce their bulk for them to stop off at McDonald's on the way home and fill up with burgers before retiring to their armchairs in front of the TV again.as with all things costs have to be weighed against the benefits as a whole. I don't see why we should pander to people. If I didn't change the oil in my car would a warranty company fit a new engine when it fails? If I didn't lock my front door would the insurance pay out when I got burgled? I take it neither of you have ever taken part in any of the above, if not your perfect, if you have then where do we draw the line, oi you, you cant have treatment for your broken leg because rock climbing is against the rules, how much did you say you drink a week ?. thats not chips your eating is it, have you had your five a day, did you have your two miles brisk walk every day, have you ever lived in a house with a smoker ? ................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Its alright just worked it out the NHS should only treat WELL people save a fortune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Its alright just worked it out the NHS should only treat WELL people save a fortune the thread has gone way off topic now,yes the nhs should help people but people should also at least try to help themselves,i believe that everyone must realise by now that certain things do not enhance your health and it is unfair to expect others to pay for their excesses or the results of them,maybe when the health service has collapsed completely under the strain and we are all then left to the mercy if insurance or pay private or the charity hospital who will pick and choose who and what they treat you may look back and feel you have done well..i will never agree that it should fund the mrs i want to be a mr but then be a mrs to have a child then go back to mr all at the nhs expense.or i need surgery because my left boob is 10mm lower than the other or my bottom looks to big in my favourite blue jeans.if you want that get a job save your money pay for it yourself.you know the same as some do to get the life changing surgery that otherwise they might have to be on a waiting list of a couple of years for.like hip or knee replacements.i like scully have known people with these conditions but unlike him those i know had to either live in pain for a long while and some still are or bite the bullet and pay either from savings or loan.like most things in life look after it or lose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 I give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddoakley Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 That's easy, being female she changed her mind...again. Hahhahahhaha. Was just contemplating a serious post with my thoughts on the subject but this made me laugh! Brilliant Edd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 I give up. dont believe it,you said you were out within the first page of this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 dont believe it,you said you were out within the first page of this thread Someone has to try to dispel blinkered ignorance and bigotry Mick, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Someone has to try to dispel blinkered ignorance and bigotry Mick, unfortunately. And you have my sympathy.it must be a massive burden to you having all fall on your shoulders. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 And you have my sympathy.it must be a massive burden to you having all fall on your shoulders. ;-) Oh it's not a burden Mick; as I've said many a time...all it takes for ignorance and bigotry to prosper, is for good men to do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Crumbs, not quite sure why the taxpayer should pick up the bill for this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Crumbs, not quite sure why the taxpayer should pick up the bill for this! Neither is anyone else, but I think the conversation has moved beyond that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 The problem with science is when scientists start playing God you get trouble. Gender reassignment is treating the symptoms not effecting a cure as the original post of she/he/she has proven! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 The problem with science is when scientists start playing God you get trouble. Gender reassignment is treating the symptoms not effecting a cure as the original post of she/he/she has proven! The problem with that is that scientists don't play god; scientists play scientists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 The problem with that is that scientists don't play god; scientists play scientists. And of course they never get it wrong do they.as history shows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 as I've said many a time...all it takes for ignorance and bigotry to prosper, is for good men to do nothing. Exactly, which is why we should lobby our MP demanding that this gross waste of NHS funding is halted forthwith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 And of course they never get it wrong do they.as history shows Compared to god? They're only human Mick; where would we be without them? They can help generate life and save lives, and improve health Mick. In the context of this thread what have they got wrong ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretagentmole Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 The problem with that is that scientists don't play god; scientists play scientists. No they play God, they bring life to a situation where genetics/nature say it should not exist. Nature can create life, but if a human has a fear of procreation in the normal male/female way then their genetic strain is obviously inferior and destined to die out as they will not be able to copulate to create life. Scientists creating life for such people are playing God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Compared to god? They're only human Mick; where would we be without them? They can help generate life and save lives, and improve health Mick. In the context of this thread what have they got wrong ? Well in the context of messing with human nature I think phalidamide ranks as a pretty big fail.and of course it was others who lived with the consequences. Then more recent I believe it was the scientists who deemed it OK to feed animals parts of other animals.yet again they were not standing by the fires.bsc if you need a hint.on the human side a bit further back frontal labotomies in fact they had a couple of goes at that a few years apart and ended in human suffering.in the world of mental health the famous electric shock treatment people inasylums for most of their lives due to some clever science decisions.no doubt very minor in your view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 (edited) Exactly, which is why we should lobby our MP demanding that this gross waste of NHS funding is halted forthwith. It's a supposedly free world CT; good luck with that. Personally I'm not too bothered whether it's paid for by the NHS or not; it's not for me to decide, but I am bothered about some of the pig ignorant intolerant comments on here regarding people of cross gender. Lobby with all your might against what you see as a gross mis-spending of NHS funds, but please don't oppose it for the reasons Mick does. It didn't take him long to show his true colours by making the jump from accepting gay or cross gender to accepting pedophilia. Edited August 4, 2016 by Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Cup of tea anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 No they play God, they bring life to a situation where genetics/nature say it should not exist. Nature can create life, but if a human has a fear of procreation in the normal male/female way then their genetic strain is obviously inferior and destined to die out as they will not be able to copulate to create life. Scientists creating life for such people are playing God! They can't play god as they've proved god doesn't exist. In the case of this thread they haven't brought life to a situation where nature says it shouldn't exist because the man in question has female reproductive organs; all it takes for him to reproduce is the implant of a fertilised egg, and that is done on a daily basis in most countries the world over. Your sentence in bold is rubbish. Why should people be denied the chance to reproduce and have children for whatever reason, when science can help them do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 4, 2016 Report Share Posted August 4, 2016 Well in the context of messing with human nature I think phalidamide ranks as a pretty big fail.and of course it was others who lived with the consequences. Then more recent I believe it was the scientists who deemed it OK to feed animals parts of other animals.yet again they were not standing by the fires.bsc if you need a hint.on the human side a bit further back frontal labotomies in fact they had a couple of goes at that a few years apart and ended in human suffering.in the world of mental health the famous electric shock treatment people inasylums for most of their lives due to some clever science decisions.no doubt very minor in your view Like I said, they're human too Mick and I'd be amongst the first to criticise, but where would we be today if scientists stopped trying for fear of failing? As tragic as failings can and will be, make a list of all sciences failings against their successes, or make a list of everything we have today which is due to science and scientists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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