pigeon migrants

[ditchman]

Heavy shells for you Ditchy. Glad you connected with a few.

 

 

needless to say they were thro' the auto..........................what a beautiful day it was too....

[goober]

Main Sighting: Woodpigeon

73,500 woodpigeons heading SW. Main stream was following the coast but very high (most at 600-1000m some much higher) so easily missable unless looking directly upwards through bins. Some flocks way out over the Channel were higher and climbing past the vanishing point with Bins.

 

Local report from Tuesday.

There have been a few days of big numbers but hit and miss.Today a few passed from first light until only 8.30ish but I should see the main run over the next week.

I have started noticing younger birds and also much smaller birds mixed in but theses may be stock doves possibly.

Of the birds brought down,most were carrying a bit of fat and they seem to have hung around earlier in the week feeding in the hedges on berries.

Also noted today was a sudden fall in numbers of local birds which had been on maize stubble,hopefully not related to migrants passing through.

[ditchman]

WE HAVE LIFT OFF................was out this afternoon....glorious day...warm dry sunny.....and at 1 o'clock thro' to 3.30 the first of the migrants started coming thro....very high up....not big numbers today only about 5-600.....i had full choke and was using 34gm 5's....pulled 6 down for 9 shots well pleased with that.....i shall be out tomorrow and take some pics........

 

 

i WAS TALKING RUBBISH....went the next day ...nuthing............it was a few birds flighting.....still keeping my eye out tho'.........

[goober]

I was up early on Sunday morning at first light in a field next to my garden,a lovely frosty still morning.

After dropping an unsuspecting crow I began to see large,high flocks of pigeon but the flightline had moved a few hundred yards inland and so only a few smaller groups passed overhead,mostly out of range.

I continued to see probably 15-25 thousand passing high,one flock of probably 4 thousand in one long streak.

By 10am the flow had more or less stopped with a few strays catching up,ended with a crow and two pigeon.

As we still haven't seen the usual larger passage,I will presume they're a bit later this year and will show soon.

[ditchman]

I was up early on Sunday morning at first light in a field next to my garden,a lovely frosty still morning.

After dropping an unsuspecting crow I began to see large,high flocks of pigeon but the flightline had moved a few hundred yards inland and so only a few smaller groups passed overhead,mostly out of range.

I continued to see probably 15-25 thousand passing high,one flock of probably 4 thousand in one long streak.

By 10am the flow had more or less stopped with a few strays catching up,ended with a crow and two pigeon.

As we still haven't seen the usual larger passage,I will presume they're a bit later this year and will show soon.

 

 

what direction were they heading ?

[goober]

what direction were they heading ?

They were heading south west,I believe they leave around Penarth to head across Bristol Channel.

[Dr D]

I have a question on this subject. Every year we get an influx of birds. Has anyone here ever seen these migrants leaving GB and heading across the Irish sea. I have read about them heading across the channel, but never heading this direction? Also the birds I see only stay a few weeks and then disappear. But I always assumed Ireland was too far west for the European migration routes?

[Adge Cutler]

The following is from a 2012 topic in shooting magazine... This may have been done before but its always an interesting topic to discuss imo.. I think we do get a few thousand diverted migrants each year but I don't believe that Britain is targeted particularly by Scandinavian wood pigeon. I don't know if big flocks have ever been picked up on radar hopping over the north sea as other migrants have. The big flocks I witnessed early today were almost certainly resident birds amalgamated from the local populations which is extremely healthy at the moment. I reckon I could shoot 50 birds tomorrow if I could put deeks out on the primary school playing field ( that's no joke either )

 

Certainly worth another read.

 

First, let's get rid of one of the pigeon shooters? myths. It is not so long ago that many country people believed that each autumn woodpigeon flocked into the UK by their million to devour oilseed and other brassica crops. Many farmers and pigeon shooters, including my father, would say that these foreigners were smaller and darker in colour and didn't have a white neck patch.

In fact, only just a few months ago it was mentioned by a landowner on the ITV Countrywise programme when the problem of pigeon damage was being discussed. He claimed that thousands came in from Eastern Europe every year at the beginning of autumn. Today, serious pigeon shooters know that these are the newly fledged birds, seen mainly in early autumn, and there is no subspecies of woodpigeon in Europe.

The meaning of migration

Check the dictionary for the meaning of migration and it reads: move from one habitat to another according to the seasons. No mention is made of those habitats being in different countries. So, with pigeon, yes, they do migrate, but generally within a restricted area. For example, large flocks of woodies are reported seen flying high over some of our northern counties, but that same flock is rarely reported travelling over other countries further South
Likewise, flocks leaving Essex are not reported over Kent on their way to France.

Continental pigeon

There are several experts who believe a few Continental flocks on their passage down through Holland and Belgium deviate northward in error, entering Kent, Sussex and maybe Essex. These birds are said to continue south-west to recross the Channel from the Hampshire, Dorset or Devon coast. This explains the movement south out to sea over areas such as Portland Bill. Yet, in contrast, flocks moving south from Wales through Devon are seen returning back into Cornwall. This gives further evidence that the so-called migrants are those that recently entered the UK into our southern counties.

Where are all the woodies?

Here in the UK, our woodie is largely sedentary; normally travelling a radius of 20 or so miles from its place of fledging. So, if that's true, where do they go? I believe a fair percentage move to urban areas during winter to feed on the numerous non-native species of trees and shrubs that provide seeds and berries during the colder parts of the year. Another attraction is food offered from bird tables. A staggering £300million is spent annually on bird feed.

Of course, their predators (including us shooters) are much less active in urban areas, too. Small as well as large flocks tend to retreat into the UK's extensive areas of woodland and forests during the early autumn, where they will remain until the acorn and ivy harvest is depleted. Attached to this, there will be a great deal of wheat scattered in the rides and around feed hoppers. In March, woodies were still being shot with acorns in their crops. Remember, they can largely feed in peace in the depths of these woodland areas and not have rockets and rook bangers sending them off back to where they came from, every time they attempt to change their diet. This is yet another reason for small bags being achieved on oilseed rape: they have a large alternative food source.

The Continental corridor

Pigeon do travel, but only within mainland Europe, from Scandinavia in the north through to their wintering areas in Spain. From the north, they move south along a corridor through Denmark, Holland, Germany, Belgium and France and fi nally across the Pyrenees into Spain. Ambushing these migrants through these mountains is a popular sport. Platform hides are erected and live birds are used as decoys. And as in the UK, package deals, including hotel accommodation are organised by specialist agencies.

So how do we know that a percentage of these birds crossing this high mountain range are not from the UK? The answer is records obtained from ringing birds here in the UK, both in the nest and captured adults. The British Trust for Ornithology (BTO) has been carrying out this work for many years, keeping accurate records of all reported recoveries. Of the many thousands ringed, only a small number have been collected on mainland Europe ? most of which can be counted on one hand. They were recovered in the Brittany area of France; and surprisingly, just one or two in the Calais area at our shortest crossing. It could well be that some of the adults ringed here in the South-East were from some of those flocks diverted temporarily northwards on their way to Spain.

As for immigrant woodpigeon invading us from across the North Sea; this has long been proved wrong. Ringing on the Continent has confirmed this, and no reliable reports have been recorded of flocks crossing over oilrigs, for example. One final factor is that there are no reports of birds dropping into the UK in the spring on their way back north from Spain. This, to me, is proof enough that there is no noticeable migration to or from our shores.

It,s estimated that we in the UK have at least six million pairs of woodpigeon; the largest density in Europe ! the BTO estimates that this bird has increased by around 79 per cent over the past 25 years. Therefore, the news is good: not only are they staying, they are also increasing.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Adge Cutler

[dead eye alan]

Very interesting I take it you meant 2012 in your introduction.

[Adge Cutler]

Very interesting I take it you meant 2012 in your introduction.

Quite so... now edited.

[oowee]

I think we need to let some of these birds know that North Somerset is a good place to be at any time of the year.

Thx for the post Adge an interesting read and good to know they wont need a passport after Brexit

[ditchman]

3 years ago (i think) there were many pages written on a "migration post"..........that would be worth a read again.......having trouble locating it....

[Whitebridges]

3 years ago (i think) there were many pages written on a "migration post"..........that would be worth a read again.......having trouble locating it....

 

Here's a couple of previous threads Ditchy.

 

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/266880-migrating-wood-pigeon/?hl=migration&do=findComment&comment=2355420

 

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/265524-thousands-of-pigeons-hit-devon/

 

I've seen vast migrations on a very big scale twice. Once when I was about five miles out at sea off Yarmouth and the other when I was on the eye at Blakeney point.

[Adge Cutler]

3 years ago (i think) there were many pages written on a "migration post"..........that would be worth a read again.......having trouble locating it....

 

Yes I think you are right .

 

I think it was this one.. Migrating wood pigeon ??

 

But I don't know how to link it

Edited November 8, 2016 by Adge Cutler

[ditchman]

Yes I think you are right .

 

I think it was this one.. Migrating wood pigeon ??

 

But I don't know how to link it

 

 

i see even then you were very active in your posting............

[Adge Cutler]

 

 

i see even then you were very active in your posting............

Oh yes ! very interested in Migrating ( or not migrating as the case may be ) wood pigeon and other birds..a fascinating topic

 

Did some ringing work for the BTO a few years back....brilliant .!

[goober]

Just found this posting off local bird watcher today:

 

Main Sighting: Lapland Bunting

1 Lapland bunting flying NE out over the saltmarsh; called twice but not seen. On the sea 2 great crested grebe and 3 common scoter. Waders picking up with 10 grey plover, 3 turnstone & 226 dunlin. A single brambling in the hawthorn along with a few redwing and fieldfare. Woodpigeon passage fizzling out with just over 1000 birds this morning compared with 10-70K most days over the last week or so.

 

I haven't seen these constant numbers,so I presume they have passed through on a slightly different flight line?

This years passage may be the least I have seen if it is indeed coming to an end.

[Whitebridges]

It would help goober if you updated the "From" bit of your profile.

[lakeside1000]

Its very interesting reading, I have spent over 55 years chasing them around the midlands and now out Norfolk way, I have seen these large flocks at high altitude but never heading out to sea,

In the 70's I regularly saw several thousand around November moving out of the woodland around Nottingham, but they never seemed to go far, even into the deep winter months when there was snow on the ground they were still around, I have lived in central France 9 years through the late 90's up to 2003 and used to be out shooting and fishing most weeks but never saw any large numbers of woodpigeon, one of the reasons I came back to the UK as I really missed my sport.

Some of my best days have been around Christmas and January when they have moved into the large flocks , especially on rape.

Personally I hope they don't follow all the brits out to Spain, I would get bored waiting for them to come back home.

Edited November 12, 2016 by lakeside1000

[Dr D]

Surely the opinion that migrant pigeons don't pass through the UK has to be wrong. The bto site and a number of birds observatories have counted them.

 

The Portland bird observatory counts pigeons heading across the channel every year, sometimes in their thousands?

 

There are definitely birds that cross the Irish sea each winter, because I have watched them coming in.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Dr D

[Adge Cutler]

Surely the opinion that migrant pigeons don't pass through the UK has to be wrong. The bto site and a number of birds observatories have counted them.

 

The Portland bird observatory counts pigeons heading across the channel every year, sometimes in their thousands?

 

There are definitely birds that cross the Irish sea each winter, because I have watched them coming in.

I think they do in limited numbers, deviate off their migration routes to Spain and southern Europe from Scandinavia. But we are talking of millions of pigeon making that particular journey each year. Expert opinion is that the UK is not a migration destination though but sometimes a convenient stop off point.

[anser2]

I suspect the real truth about wood pigeon migration is we do not know. There are plenty of sightings by eye of the birds moving across the country and sometimes coming in off the sea , but the latter records do not seem to happen every year.I have seen wood pigeons coming in off the sea and indeed some years ago there was a continuing movement for several days and I shot quite a few on the Norfolk Coast as they came in from the NE off the sea and crossed the saltings towards the farmland. Every year about 1000 wood pigeons are ringed in the UK. But almost all of them are ringed in the summer when winter migrants are not going to be in this country. About half (500) are ringed as youngsters in the nest and the mortality of pulli birds is known to be a lot higher than adults and its likely that a high percentage of these young pigeons perish close to the nest sites. Wood pigeons are not easy to catch in numbers with the equipment most ringers use , mist nets and again the main time when wood pigeons are likely to be caught in mist nets is in the spring and summer while they are looking for nest sites or brooding. Again local birds that are not likely to move far. I suspect that very, very few winter wood pigeons are ever ringed and of course these are the very birds that need to be ringed to prove or disprove we have a large population of winter migrants in this country. It amazes me that a bird like the wood pigeon , being a major farming pest has not been ringed in larger numbers. One would have thought the old MAFF or DEFRA or todays Environment Agency would have contracted some ringers with special catching gear to carry out work on them. I suspect they could be caught in large numbers with cannon netting gear of a similar type as used to catch waders or wild geese. Untill we do catch large numbers of winter wood pigeons the question of winter migrants into the UK will remain speculation.

 

Footnote . The number of Wood pigeons ringed in Norfolk in -

 

2012 - 157

2009 - 206

2000 - 65

1995 - 53 Thats aprox 0.2% of all species of birds ringed in the county in these 4 years and only 0.1% will have been adults, far too few to give much in the way of overseas recoveries. Despite the low numbers ringed 5 Norfolk ringed wood pigeons have been recovered abroad , 3 from France including one ringed in Ormesby St Margaret as an adult in December 2010 and was shot in Sare, Pyrenees Atlantiques 1069 km SSW.

Edited November 13, 2016 by anser2

[marsh man]

answer2 .... Interesting post about ringing pigeons , I have shot many 1000s of Wood Pigeons spanning close on 50yrs and I am not saying I have looked on the legs of every pigeon I have shot because I haven't but up unto 2 yrs ago I have never had one with a ring on and talking to the game dealer he hadn't seen one neither.

 

Then on the 24th June 2014 my long wait finally came to an end , as a coincidence you mentioned Ormesby St Margaret in Norfolk , well the one I got with the ring number ( FH 56824 ) was at least 2 years old , sex unknown and rung at Ormesby St Margaret on the 10 th May 2014.

 

Unlike the one you were talking about that ended up in France and travelled 1069 km , mine only lived a few weeks after a ring was put on its foot and travelled the grand distance of 3 km SSE .

[Adge Cutler]

I suspect the real truth about wood pigeon migration is we do not know. There are plenty of sightings by eye of the birds moving across the country and sometimes coming in off the sea , but the latter records do not seem to happen every year.I have seen wood pigeons coming in off the sea and indeed some years ago there was a continuing movement for several days and I shot quite a few on the Norfolk Coast as they came in from the NE off the sea and crossed the saltings towards the farmland. Every year about 1000 wood pigeons are ringed in the UK. But almost all of them are ringed in the summer when winter migrants are not going to be in this country. About half (500) are ringed as youngsters in the nest and the mortality of pulli birds is known to be a lot higher than adults and its likely that a high percentage of these young pigeons perish close to the nest sites. Wood pigeons are not easy to catch in numbers with the equipment most ringers use , mist nets and again the main time when wood pigeons are likely to be caught in mist nets is in the spring and summer while they are looking for nest sites or brooding. Again local birds that are not likely to move far. I suspect that very, very few winter wood pigeons are ever ringed and of course these are the very birds that need to be ringed to prove or disprove we have a large population of winter migrants in this country. It amazes me that a bird like the wood pigeon , being a major farming pest has not been ringed in larger numbers. One would have thought the old MAFF or DEFRA or todays Environment Agency would have contracted some ringers with special catching gear to carry out work on them. I suspect they could be caught in large numbers with cannon netting gear of a similar type as used to catch waders or wild geese. Untill we do catch large numbers of winter wood pigeons the question of winter migrants into the UK will remain speculation.

 

Footnote . The number of Wood pigeons ringed in Norfolk in -

 

2012 - 157

2009 - 206

2000 - 65

1995 - 53 Thats aprox 0.2% of all species of birds ringed in the county in these 4 years and only 0.1% will have been adults, far too few to give much in the way of overseas recoveries. Despite the low numbers ringed 5 Norfolk ringed wood pigeons have been recovered abroad , 3 from France including one ringed in Ormesby St Margaret as an adult in December 2010 and was shot in Sare, Pyrenees Atlantiques 1069 km SSW.

V Interesting..

 

I believe plenty of woodpigeon have been ringed in Scandinavia, particularly Finland and also NE Europe since the 70's... These do turn up in France, Spain and Portugal but very rarely in GB it seems. So it would seem to suggest that GB is not a destination for the Northern woodpigeon from the colder parts.

 

Flocks of birds as small as 100 redwings can be picked out on modern radar equipment these days but as far as I'm aware no records of the influx of Thousands of Pigeons from the continent (which would probably look like the Luftwaffe on the screen. ) have been disclosed.

 

Sedentary pigeons in GB have been increasing in numbers year on year since the 70's whereas in some parts of Europe there has shown a decline.

[Dannyboy220]

Is that true? Radar can pick up birds?

Wow!