Jay_Russell Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) Well since getting back into shooting a couple of years ago, and really carching the bug it's time to look into my own gundog. I've had use of a friends (also a gamekeeper) lab as and when she's available. I've been waiting until I've moved house which will be end of Jan. So.. the kind of shooting I do is a lot of rough shooting through fields and hedge lines, pigeon decoying and I am also part of a local walk one stand one syndicate which all the dogs I swear have no real training at all! I'd prefer something smaller than a lab ideally. I'm not really into mollycodarling dogs but I would enjoy it's company in the evenings. I am generally out for three hours with my gun most mornings as I do have a lot of ground I can shoot over. During the day he could be caged with me while at work I'd have an hour with it to exercise in my lunch and when I get home in the evenings living rurally there are plenty of fields for walking/exercise. So.. where do I start? I've been offered plenty of advice from the guys on our shoot but like I said there not the best trained dogs I've ever seen so I offer it to you PW fellows. I had thought about some kind of rescue dog or re homing a gundog if that even exists? I don't know I have a few months to form a conclusion. So open you.. thanks for reading! Edited October 19, 2016 by Jay_Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Hi Best plan here Send big bird a pm With your info and your requirements It'll be the end of the trialling season when you move so there will be plenty of good gun dogs that arnt quite up to trialling out there And big bird gets to hear about them A pup in January if available probably won't be ready for the next seasons shooting Anyway just my thoughts Tin hat on All the best Of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 How much ground would you want the dog to cover? If you have that much ground you might be better off with a hpr breed. Training will be more involved but you will have a dog that will cover 10x the ground a spaniel will. If you would rather it stay close then got for a spaniel. Don't worry about the other dogs on the shoot. That's just because they have not trained them well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 I was going to say a GSP, but you have to realise you need to be the boss man with any HPR but still con it into believing he is one of the pack. Once they know who is boss they will work their socks of for you. You have to learn to trust their nose over your belief. Many times with the GSP I had, he would run up the down wind side of a hedge stop turn round and come back but my friends with spaniels just could not believe there was nothing there and the keen little spaniels would tear the bottom out of that hedge for nowt. BUT, when that dog froze you could guarantee there was an opportunity. He also stalked with me and many times stood rock still like statue as deer walked closely by. He would lie at the base of my high seat and has had munties walk within feet of him, then look up at me as if to say "Did you see that?" "Why didn't you shoot it?" Yes, if you want a fun loyal canine friend you can't do much better than choose a German Shorthair. BUT, there again I love all working dogs ....... choices, choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee-kinsman Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) Based on the details you've provided I'd recommend a springer. They are without doubt the most versatile gundog breed and they are very easy to train. I have retrievers, cockers and springers, my best dogs are a Golden retriever and a cocker but my most versatile and adaptable dog is the springer. If the only shooting I ever did was walked up then I'd just have cockers, they are very exciting little dogs. If the only shooting I ever did was wildfowling or driven game I'd just have retrievers. If I want a dog for a little bit of everything for example, today wilfowling, tomorrow walked up and at the weekend beating, then I'd just have a springer. As a novice I'd advise you to Stay away from hpr's unless you are 100%certain that's what you want, they are very specialist. Hope that helps Edited October 19, 2016 by lee-kinsman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 U'll get loads of different answers as most folk have a prefered breed. I actually think a lab is more versitile than a springer, purely because of its think coat making it better in cold for water work if needed. And generally labs are easier to train. My labs beat and flush as well, they won't it cover like a springer but still go in if scent there, i have a ESS and them and the labs all do the same job really each have slightly different strengths/weaknesses but all would be decent rough shooting dogs But either lab, springer or cocker would be capable of doing wot u want with the right training. I'd also advise a more working strain rather than a FT strain. I'd also say don't bother with an HPR, in my opinion are not a good rough shooters dog (never been bred for it) and can be a pig to train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 I'd also say don't bother with an HPR, in my opinion are not a good rough shooters dog (never been bred for it) and can be a pig to train I only rough shoot with my hpr's. The reason I went down the hpr route was the ground I had to cover. I've been on shoots with spaniels and they work great but very close. It would take me forever and a day to cover my ground with one. An example would be one very rough field I did the other day with 2 hpr's. I did it as part of a shoot day a few years ago and it took 7-8 spaniels. If you class rough shooting as just hedge bashing then your probably right, a spaniel would be a better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Aye but hpr's are a pain to organise for a walk 1 stand 1 situation too, the way they're meant to work really only suits big open cover wether snipe bogs, rashy fields or heather. We used to have a quite a few, funnily enough the poorer trained ones were the best, the FT traiined ones were a complete nightmare going on point all over the place whle ur trying to beat in a line so u have to hold it up while handler walked over to it. More often than not they tended to be false points too, beating line obvioulsy doing wot its meant to and moving birds forward I've got 1 too and will have another can be great dogs in the right situation but there not the wonder dogs many have u believe and also can be very tricky for a novice to train. Massive differences in temperment between the breeds and even within the breeds (or even litters) can be massive difference between the slowest most biddabe pup in litter an the fastest most hard headed For me every dog is a comprimise of strengths and weaknesses, an hpr's strongest things are its range/distance it hunts at and pointing ability, if u don't want a far ranging dog that points (neithers things are positves on a walk 1 stand 1 situation) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Russell Posted October 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Thanks for all the comments so far, all very helpful. I'd rather my dog works close in front of me and even though I have a bit of land to walk over I certainly don't do it all in one go. The HPR dogs I've been reading about lately, I do feel they are probably not the right dog for me, as amazing as they are! I'm leaning towards the spaniels, working Cocker etc. I've just been looking at spaniel rescue, is this a route to look at or for a working dog is it better to buy from a reputable breeder? I'm aware that it will be 1-2 years until I have a dog thats trained for my needs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslad Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Personally i wouldn't touch a rescue dog, u don't know its breeding, history or anything else, esp as a 1st dog ur asking for problems. Also likely not docked. Big difference between a working bred and show bred line of any breed of dog. Also most working breeders would/should not breed of yappy/noisey dogs but doesn't bother pet/show breeders Know a few grouse keepers who only run rescue dogs thou get them for nowt and usually have a big pack of them. Ask the boys on ur shoot (watch there dogs, ignore the lack off training but watch them work, follow scent and see if there is 1 who finds most of the runners that other dogs can't and find out wot lines are in it) who the local breeders are and then speak to them occasionally they migh have older pups available. Bbut for a working dog (esp 1st time) i wouldn't get something too well bred with lots of recent FTCH's in pedigree, not needed for general shoot work, some can be hot/(nuts) Even i wouldn't insist on having a KC registered dog, as long as u definatrely know the breeding of ur pup, KC papers are worthless really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aled Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 May be of interest Jay Russell I'm not an expert on dogs, but Battersea does rehome working gundogs to shooting homes Keith Payne is the chap to speak to. Cheers Aled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriusgarrulus Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) A Springer Labrador cross often called a Springador might be worth considering. They seem to be slightly smaller than a full labrador and most other people I have met who have one for pet or working seem very pleased with them. I had one years ago before I started shooting and did obedience trials with him. He was very easy to train, keen on water and retrieving. Some on here have them as a gundog and are pleased with them. If you are in no rush it might be worth waiting till the end of the season when some decide to give up shooting. Often dogs are up for rehoming already trained or part trained if they have not been a pet as well. Edited October 20, 2016 by loriusgarrulus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fal Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 Based on the details you've provided I'd recommend a springer. They are without doubt the most versatile gundog breed and they are very easy to train. I have retrievers, cockers and springers, my best dogs are a Golden retriever and a cocker but my most versatile and adaptable dog is the springer. If the only shooting I ever did was walked up then I'd just have cockers, they are very exciting little dogs. If the only shooting I ever did was wildfowling or driven game I'd just have retrievers. If I want a dog for a little bit of everything for example, today wilfowling, tomorrow walked up and at the weekend beating, then I'd just have a springer. As a novice I'd advise you to Stay away from hpr's unless you are 100%certain that's what you want, they are very specialist. Hope that helps + 1 spot on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 Aye but hpr's are a pain to organise for a walk 1 stand 1 situation too, the way they're meant to work really only suits big open cover wether snipe bogs, rashy fields or heather. We used to have a quite a few, funnily enough the poorer trained ones were the best, the FT traiined ones were a complete nightmare going on point all over the place whle ur trying to beat in a line so u have to hold it up while handler walked over to it. More often than not they tended to be false points too, beating line obvioulsy doing wot its meant to and moving birds forward I've got 1 too and will have another can be great dogs in the right situation but there not the wonder dogs many have u believe and also can be very tricky for a novice to train. Massive differences in temperment between the breeds and even within the breeds (or even litters) can be massive difference between the slowest most biddabe pup in litter an the fastest most hard headed For me every dog is a comprimise of strengths and weaknesses, an hpr's strongest things are its range/distance it hunts at and pointing ability, if u don't want a far ranging dog that points (neithers things are positves on a walk 1 stand 1 situation) I agree with you. I wouldn't have one if I was beating and wanting it to stand on a peg. They are a total pain in the **** as they just want to be off hunting, well mine do. I went out yesterday with one of my GWP's and a friend with his Vizsla and we had 5 birds all shot off point and three very challenging retrieves. For me that's a perfect days shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_ox Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 I've only had springadors as a working dog and in all honesty I wouldn't want anything else. Whether beating through the woods and cover to standing on the peg and water work, they just know what they have to do, they really are amazing. I would definitly consider it, even the guys on our shoots are amazed with their versatility and how well they perform! Very good allrounder. That being said you have to nail the training or you're not going to get anywhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Russell Posted October 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Thanks guys for all your replies. Plenty there to digest. I have a trainer near me called frank Walker. I think I'm going to speak to him also, no doubt he will know local breeders and can help me choose the right breed and pup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 As well as Frank (who I train with - Lab) speak to Andy Waterhouse if you are considering a spaniel. http://www.romanrivergundogtraining.co.uk/ Thanks guys for all your replies. Plenty there to digest. I have a trainer near me called frank Walker. I think I'm going to speak to him also, no doubt he will know local breeders and can help me choose the right breed and pup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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