Nigel farage as our Ambassador to the US

[achosenman]

achosenman - you're absolutely right. And I'll never claim to understand human nature - I'm just a fascinated spectator.

 

I've seen the reaction you describe arising at local-election level when, as happens from time to time, some quite, eh, eccentric candidates emerge. I'm never surprised when they actually attract a substantial following at the ballot box - it's the electorate sending a message to the established order which says, "Look, this candidate is inept/bonkers/a fantasist/a liar/all of these. You know that and we know that. But right now he/she is vastly preferable to you!"

 

Of course, it's a dangerous game because just occasionally we find ourselves having to live and deal with the consequences of such a protest vote. It's the downside of democracy, I suppose, because democracy gives a powerful voice to the reckless angry and disaffected. Churchill called it "The worst form of government except for all the others."

 

To lighten the mood of the discussion, may I suggest that we start campaign for government by benign dictatorship? I'm available to take up the post, and of course I will commence my tenure by immediately removing the fee structure for FACs and SGCs.

 

Best regards!

 

The trouble is the message is not getting through. All that happens is the usual platitudes issue forth, then business as usual.

 

IMHO the message will only get louder and more painful the longer it is ignored.

 

On that lighter note, I too would like to be considered for Supreme Benign Dictator, I have all the answers...trust me

[big bad lindz]

 

In a word Yes. I only wish I had moved sooner

 

bbl - thanks for the clarification. My eye was drawn to the red writing and I didn't read the rest properly.

 

I see you're in the Dornoch area. Moving there must have made leaving the Central Belt a bit less painful - it's beautiful, isn't it?

[aldivalloch]

 

The trouble is the message is not getting through. All that happens is the usual platitudes issue forth, then business as usual.

 

IMHO the message will only get louder and more painful the longer it is ignored.

 

On that lighter note, I too would like to be considered for Supreme Benign Dictator, I have all the answers...trust me

Dooooh! We'll have to have an ELECTION!! See how quickly it all goes wrong??

[aldivalloch]

 

 

In a word Yes. I only wish I had moved sooner

 

 

I grew up in Strathspey, in a little village right in the middle of whisky country. Still miss it terribly. (The area, not the whisky!)

[Chris Bb]

Dooooh! We'll have to have an ELECTION!! See how quickly it all goes wrong??

 

The problem with elections is the government always get in.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Politicins are the problem, every time!

[12gauge82]

achosenman - you're absolutely right. And I'll never claim to understand human nature - I'm just a fascinated spectator.

 

I've seen the reaction you describe arising at local-election level when, as happens from time to time, some quite, eh, eccentric candidates emerge. I'm never surprised when they actually attract a substantial following at the ballot box - it's the electorate sending a message to the established order which says, "Look, this candidate is inept/bonkers/a fantasist/a liar/all of these. You know that and we know that. But right now he/she is vastly preferable to you!"

 

Of course, it's a dangerous game because just occasionally we find ourselves having to live and deal with the consequences of such a protest vote. It's the downside of democracy, I suppose, because democracy gives a powerful voice to the reckless angry and disaffected. Churchill called it "The worst form of government except for all the others."

 

To lighten the mood of the discussion, may I suggest that we start campaign for government by benign dictatorship? I'm available to take up the post, and of course I will commence my tenure by immediately removing the fee structure for FACs and SGCs.

 

Best regards!

One factor in your equation that I wonder if you've considered is that alot of the electorate aren't as dim as you think. I don't know what your background is but I don't mind admitting that I've had a fairly privileged upbringing, despite not needing to work I've chosen to, in what most would describe as working class jobs, this has given me a fairly unique prospective and the general feeling I get from people who think trump winning is a good thing is that the working masses have been downtrodden, underpaid etc for so long that it doesn't matter if trump etc is an idiot as the potential benefit outweighs the risk if it shakes up the status quo, as they feel things can't get that much worse for them anyway.

I can understand their reasoning as going from my working background in criminal justice, a person with nothing to lose can become a very dangerous individual indeed. The next few years will be interesting to see if politicians listen and how big business adapts.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

In the spirit;

 

[old man]

He can't be any worse than Blair was as the Middle East Peace Envoy.

Succinctly put.

[old man]

achosenman - you're absolutely right. And I'll never claim to understand human nature - I'm just a fascinated spectator.

 

I've seen the reaction you describe arising at local-election level when, as happens from time to time, some quite, eh, eccentric candidates emerge. I'm never surprised when they actually attract a substantial following at the ballot box - it's the electorate sending a message to the established order which says, "Look, this candidate is inept/bonkers/a fantasist/a liar/all of these. You know that and we know that. But right now he/she is vastly preferable to you!"

 

Of course, it's a dangerous game because just occasionally we find ourselves having to live and deal with the consequences of such a protest vote. It's the downside of democracy, I suppose, because democracy gives a powerful voice to the reckless angry and disaffected. Churchill called it "The worst form of government except for all the others."

 

To lighten the mood of the discussion, may I suggest that we start campaign for government by benign dictatorship? I'm available to take up the post, and of course I will commence my tenure by immediately removing the fee structure for FACs and SGCs.

 

Best regards!

The proposed view that there is a downside to democracy, is in my view the stance of someone who would remove democracy from another for their own benefit? Maybe?

[Bazooka Joe]

Of course, it's a dangerous game because just occasionally we find ourselves having to live and deal with the consequences of such a protest vote.

 

 

Them at the top with their noses in the trough you mean that have to deal with it.

 

No consequence to those that are at the bottom of the pile, they didn't get anything to start with, so have nothing to lose by a protest vote.

 

I think Farage will be right this next election as well if May doesn't delivery......

[aldivalloch]

The proposed view that there is a downside to democracy, is in my view the stance of someone who would remove democracy from another for their own benefit? Maybe?

Absolutely right in this case - if you've been following the thread you'll have seen that achosenman and I have decided that we are going to become Supreme Benign Dictators!!

 

Seriously, though, I'm not advocating the destruction of democracy - I'm just trying to point out that, for best effect and for the greater good, our votes require to be cast sensibly and responsibly.

[aldivalloch]

 

Them at the top with their noses in the trough you mean that have to deal with it.

 

No consequence to those that are at the bottom of the pile, they didn't get anything to start with, so have nothing to lose by a protest vote.

 

I think Farage will be right this next election as well if May doesn't delivery......

Couldn't disagree more. "Them at the top", as you call them, are generally sufficiently insulated by their wealth and position as to have little to fear from protest votes.

 

Those "at the bottom of the pile", on the other hand, will always have something to lose - the opportunity for a better future for themselves and their children.

 

Have a look back over the twentieth century and ask yourself who it was who paid the greatest price for the aberrations of the rich, ambitious and powerful.

Who died in their millions in World War One? In their millions in the concentration camps of Nazi Germany? In the USSR's gulags? What about Iraq? Iran? Coucesceau's Romania? The Balkans? And now the Middle East?

[Bazooka Joe]

Those "at the bottom of the pile", on the other hand, will always have something to lose - gain....the opportunity for a better future for themselves and their children.

 

 

Hence Brexit.

[aldivalloch]

 

Hence Brexit.

Optimism is an admirable quality.

 

I find it difficult to share it with you, though, given that the "out" vote was obviously a huge surprise / shock to the government, with the result that they didn't - and, I suspect, still don't - have any clear strategy for moving Britain forward.

 

I'm old and a bit stiff nowadays. a few weeks ago, I needed to cross a fence to retrieve a ball. I said to my friend, who was with me, that when I was younger I would simply have jumped over it.

 

"Aye," he said. "You still could. The jumping's easy - it's where and how you land that's the problem!"

 

I fear that Britain didn't look before it leapt. Bumpy ride ahead, I fear.

[12gauge82]

Couldn't disagree more. "Them at the top", as you call them, are generally sufficiently insulated by their wealth and position as to have little to fear from protest votes.

 

Those "at the bottom of the pile", on the other hand, will always have something to lose - the opportunity for a better future for themselves and their children.

 

Have a look back over the twentieth century and ask yourself who it was who paid the greatest price for the aberrations of the rich, ambitious and powerful.

Who died in their millions in World War One? In their millions in the concentration camps of Nazi Germany? In the USSR's gulags? What about Iraq? Iran? Coucesceau's Romania? The Balkans? And now the Middle East?

I think you've failed to understand that social media is opening the eyes of the masses and have eroded the ability of media to control the masses. Imo You've also underestimated just how badly off some at "the bottom of the pile" are, they literally live hand to mouth and any further cuts would result in them unable to pay their mortgages and some to even feed their families, at that point the "elites" stand to lose everything, the bottom would fall out of the property market and the masses would riot. It's happened before, but you need to look further than the 20th century, the Aztecs, Mayans, incas, Romans etc, when the top of society takes too much and leaves too little for the bottom, the house of cards comes tumbling down. Edited November 25, 2016 by 12gauge82

[UKPoacher]

Optimism is an admirable quality.

 

I find it difficult to share it with you, though, given that the "out" vote was obviously a huge surprise / shock to the government, with the result that they didn't - and, I suspect, still don't - have any clear strategy for moving Britain forward.

 

I'm old and a bit stiff nowadays. a few weeks ago, I needed to cross a fence to retrieve a ball. I said to my friend, who was with me, that when I was younger I would simply have jumped over it.

 

"Aye," he said. "You still could. The jumping's easy - it's where and how you land that's the problem!"

 

I fear that Britain didn't look before it leapt. Bumpy ride ahead, I fear.

 

I agree that there was and still is not set plan for Brexit. That is because no one knew just how entangled the UK had become in the sticky mire of Brussels. However, there is one over riding reason why the UK should not fear leaving the EU and that is because we knew where the EU is heading and that is a far scarier prospect that whatever going it alone could mean.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

[Bazooka Joe]

I think you've failed to understand that social media is opening the eyes of the masses and have eroded the ability of media to control the masses. Imo You've also underestimated just how badly off some at "the bottom of the pile" are, they literally live hand to mouth and any further cuts would result in them unable to pay their mortgages and some to even feed their families, at that point the "elites" stand to lose everything, the bottom would fall out of the property market and the masses would riot. It's happened before, but you need to look further than the 20th century, the Aztecs, Mayans, incas, Romans etc, when the top of society takes too much and leaves too little for the bottom, the house of cards comes tumbling down.

 

 

There should be a "like" button on this forum....add the French Revolution to it as well...

[Danger-Mouse]

 

....add the French Revolution to it as well...

 

That one leapt to my mind too.

 

However the guillotine would never pass all the H&S rules we have these days

[UKPoacher]

 

There should be a "like" button on this forum....add the French Revolution to it as well...

 

Problem with the French Revolution is that they just swapped one ruling class for another. The people at the bottom of the pile were still there even if they did have a short period of feel good factor.

[Yellow Bear]

 

Problem with the French Revolution is that they just swapped one ruling class for another. The people at the bottom of the pile were still there even if they did have a short period of feel good factor.

Just like socialism/communism then

[aldivalloch]

I think you've failed to understand that social media is opening the eyes of the masses and have eroded the ability of media to control the masses. Imo You've also underestimated just how badly off some at "the bottom of the pile" are, they literally live hand to mouth and any further cuts would result in them unable to pay their mortgages and some to even feed their families, at that point the "elites" stand to lose everything, the bottom would fall out of the property market and the masses would riot. It's happened before, but you need to look further than the 20th century, the Aztecs, Mayans, incas, Romans etc, when the top of society takes too much and leaves too little for the bottom, the house of cards comes tumbling down.

I'm very well aware how badly-off those "at the bottom of the pile" are.

 

And here's something I struggle to understand - your belief that "the masses" have been controlled by the media (presumably the press, radio and television), but are now undergoing liberation through social media.

 

The social media, in my experience, are every bit as misleading, manipulative, dishonest, ill-informed, scurrilous, etc, as the conventional media.

 

And in what way would a further fall in the quality of life of "those at the bottom of the pile" occasion the loss of everything for the elite? Have a look back over history and you'll see that the elite have an impressive capacity for surviving upheaval. Or, in some cases, a new elite has very quickly emerged to replace the old. It's Animal farm out there.

 

By the way, your grasp of history is actually more than a little lacking. Go and research the factors that brought to an end the Aztec and Inca empires. You'll see the word "Spain" figuring quite prominently.

[12gauge82]

I'm very well aware how badly-off those "at the bottom of the pile" are.

 

And here's something I struggle to understand - your belief that "the masses" have been controlled by the media (presumably the press, radio and television), but are now undergoing liberation through social media.

 

The social media, in my experience, are every bit as misleading, manipulative, dishonest, ill-informed, scurrilous, etc, as the conventional media.

 

And in what way would a further fall in the quality of life of "those at the bottom of the pile" occasion the loss of everything for the elite? Have a look back over history and you'll see that the elite have an impressive capacity for surviving upheaval. Or, in some cases, a new elite has very quickly emerged to replace the old. It's Animal farm out there.

 

By the way, your grasp of history is actually more than a little lacking. Go and research the factors that brought to an end the Aztec and Inca empires. You'll see the word "Spain" figuring quite prominently.

Some education for you.

 

http://www.aztec-history.com/fall-of-the-aztec-empire.html

 

I agree that empires fall and a new "elite" generally rises, however that doesn't mean the elite of the day don't lose all when civil unrest breaks out. Now I'm not suggesting that's going to happen anytime soon, however I belive we are seeing the start of a new era of politics and if those in power do not adapt to it then unrest way very well follow. Social media is very powerful, why do you think the goverment passed new laws to shut it down after the rioting that spread through london after Mark Duggan was shot, social media is of course also full of lies but if you can't see that all media outlets have their own agendas maybe a trip to spec savers is in order? This is mainly because they're all owned by rather wealthy individuals, case in point, the Panama papers, rather under reported don't you think?

[aldivalloch]

Some education for you.

 

http://www.aztec-history.com/fall-of-the-aztec-empire.html

 

I agree that empires fall and a new "elite" generally rises, however that doesn't mean the elite of the day don't lose all when civil unrest breaks out. Now I'm not suggesting that's going to happen anytime soon, however I belive we are seeing the start of a new era of politics and if those in power do not adapt to it then unrest way very well follow. Social media is very powerful, why do you think the goverment passed new laws to shut it down after the rioting that spread through london after Mark Duggan was shot, social media is of course also full of lies but if you can't see that all media outlets have their own agendas maybe a trip to spec savers is in order? This is mainly because they're all owned by rather wealthy individuals, case in point, the Panama papers, rather under reported don't you think?

I note your advice that I should take a trip to SpecSavers. Perhaps we can go together, because you clearly haven't assimilated the third paragraph of my post.... not exactly full of glowing praise for the conventional media, is it?