Bit of a shock trying to get some powder ordered in to my local RFD

[Zetter]

I am starting to get ready and gathering the stuff needed to reload my .17 hornet. As I get on well with my local RFD I thought I would get him to get in the powder, bullets primers ect if possible.

All I can say is crikey!

The lad in there went to their normal supplier for ammunition and the like for a cost but due to the issues with TNT and the like not now carrying explosives and ammunition the price for a pound of Hodgson 4198 powder delivered to them was about £76! Apparently £46 of this was carriage unless they ordered £800 worth of stuff!

Needless to say we both agreed I would be taking a trip down to reloading solutions in Kidlington in the near future who should have it in stock.

 

I knew the couriers decision not to carry explosives and ammunition would have a impact but blooming hell I didn't expect it to push carriage up to more than the actual item. This wasn't the RFD making a markup at all on this apart from vat as he was on the phone while I was there and has always done me good deals in the past.

 

[Walker570]

That is crazy, when a 250 slab of cartridges from Just Cartridges, dropped by my back door cost just £15 to deliver. No more or less dangerous.

[welshwarrior]

Unfortunately £46 is about standard now and is at cost so most I know I do will order stuff in but only when I have a long enough list now.

 

By the way it now comes on a pallet!!!

Edited December 1, 2016 by welshwarrior

[rbrowning2]

Walker570, cartridges are not the same as section 1 ammo and are 1.4s so less legal and hazmat issues for the couriers than powder 1.3c and ammo and especially expanding ammo or bullets at this time.

 

This all happened a few weeks back when TNT walked away form the gun trade.

 

My RFD is doing as welshwarrior not saying no just adding you to a list until they can justify an order the very poor profit margins the shop gets are not helping they say.

[cooter]

Try Paul at caseprepservices in Marston.

 

He has a fair amount in stock and the prices are comparable to anywhere else, and he is close to MK.

[Vince Green]

Its driving people towards making false declarations and getting mates to post stuff using My Hermes and the like. I'm told its not illegal (it is if you use the post office) just against their T&Cs.

 

You create a problem and people find ways round it

 

RFD I know is in talks to resolve the issue setting up a syndicate with other RFDs and sharing the cost of a van.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Vince Green

[Zetter]

Try Paul at caseprepservices in Marston.

 

He has a fair amount in stock and the prices are comparable to anywhere else, and he is close to MK.

Brilliant I will try that thanks mate thats a lot closer to me

[super sharp shooter]

Shame he only stocks rifle powders

[rbrowning2]

Its driving people towards making false declarations and getting mates to post stuff using My Hermes and the like. I'm told its not illegal (it is if you use the post office) just against their T&Cs.You create a problem and people find ways round itRFD I know is in talks to resolve the issue setting up a syndicate with other RFDs and sharing the cost of a van.

Interesting idea making a false declaration, I guess ok so long as nothing goes wrong and the courier then finds the contents and reports to the police and or HSE who then reach the conclusion both parties are not of suitable integrity to own a FAC or SGC.

Not worth the risk I would say.

 

The van idea is the way forward but I cannot see away that will not push up prices yet further or a long waits while the, on order list, grows to justify the shop ordering.

[Walker570]

Walker570, cartridges are not the same as section 1 ammo and are 1.4s so less legal and hazmat issues for the couriers than powder 1.3c and ammo and especially expanding ammo or bullets at this time.

 

This all happened a few weeks back when TNT walked away form the gun trade.

 

My RFD is doing as welshwarrior not saying no just adding you to a list until they can justify an order the very poor profit margins the shop gets are not helping they say.

Still no more dangerous one way or the other. Still crazy and an excuse to screw more money from the end user (not by the RFD by the way).

[cooter]

Shame he only stocks rifle powders

 

Try giving him a call, you might be surprised.

[kenholland]

just spoke to clay and game not looking good there either look's like I will have to collect everythink from the shooting show it's crazy let's hope some thing can be sorted soon.

[rbrowning2]

Still no more dangerous one way or the other. Still crazy and an excuse to screw more money from the end user (not by the RFD by the way).

 

I agree all ammo and cartridges classified 1.4s are no different in risk to transport but powder is classified 1.3c and hence the powers that be have decided it is more dangerous to transport than 1.4s. That's the idea of classification to determine risk.

Sending any dangerous goods undeclared via a non approved transporter is courting trouble.

 

Surly the gun trade association are looking at other couriers to replace TNT.

[Continental Shooter]

.... it makes me thinking that the offer i had from a friend of mine is not too silly ....

 

He's driving to UK with a load of 1.3 and offered to add to it a 10kg barrel of Tecna N; at first the £600 circa he thought it would cost seemed a bit scary and i wanted to offer a share to someone who was ready to drive up to Scotland to pick up ... but looking at delivery cost.... i better hurry and take up his offer ...

[Vince Green]

I was told something at the weekend, I don't know if its true but I will repeat it on here and I would be interested to know what other people think.

If the powder is posted (or shipped) from another EU country where they will still ship powder, the carrier in this country is obliged to deliver it because of reciprocal agreements.

 

There is no illegality in shipping powder its just a policy decision on the part of the carrier not to accept it in this country, but that doesn't negate existing EU wide agreements.

 

So that's it, what do you think? It won't affect me, there is no significant problems getting powder round here.

[Continental Shooter]

well, the fact that manufacturers use EU powders is testament to what you saying ...for the wholesalers.

 

for the retailers is all a matter of demand and supply; here the demand is low and there is not a business for the carrier so, they try and make it as difficult as possible

 

I've also just been made aware that shipping cost from continental Europe have risen; i was trying to place an order with SIARM and for just over 1000 hulls they wanted £56 in shipping.... all because TNT couldn't be ***** transporting primed hulls ....

 

In past years, i ordered thousands of primed cases and never had to pay such a high transport fee even for much, much heavier parcels.... I was thinking on going with private courier; at least they might be able to transport 1.3 or 1.4 hazmat and; if i have to pay a hefty fee ... at least i can sneak in powders!

 

I am more and more appalled by these war and Brexit won't make it any easier for home loaders...

[rbrowning2]

Vince and continental shooter as much as the situation is making life difficult I think as per my previous post you are courting big trouble.

 

Any transport firm can refuse transport any goods they like. The transport of all hazard goods or materials is heavily regulated within the EU and worldwide. Look on the HSE. Website for explosives it is all their. the regulations define how and what dangerous goods can be moved by road, rail, sea and air, how they are classified and packaged. Explosives by their very nature are some of the most regular dangerous goods and every step of the transport process has to be done correctly.

 

You cannot commercial or privately just put them on any vehicle, on any old boat or train and move them to any old port or train station to cross the channel. It is all about protecting all users in the process and all other persons on the roads, boat etc and emergency service personnel in the event of an incident.

 

Yep the rules can be broken and the risk may appear very low, but breaking the rules carries significant fines and or a prison sentence, imagine the consequence of another fire on the channel tunnel because somebody was illegally transporting explosives.

 

I was told that SIRAM were illegally transporting primed cases and hence cheaply by not declaring them as dangerous goods class 1 and not using the correct packaging for shipping by road, sea or rail as they had no idea after sending them how they would crossed the channel. Doing it safely and correctly costs more as you have now found.

 

It is thanks to the rules that we all enjoy safe travel by road, rail, sea and air or would you be happy to know the train carriage behind you contains explosives or other hazard material be that biochemical or radioactive and the person transporting no idea about the dangers or what to do In an emergency.

 

When working, we had the same problem moving car air bags around.

[ronnie12342003]

dont we all transport explosives when we go shooting i had thousand rounds in my boot whats the law on this

[herby]

2,4,6-Trinitrotoluene and propellants can't be mixed!!!!

[Old farrier]

dont we all transport explosives when we go shooting i had thousand rounds in my boot whats the law on this

Depends where your going shooting

As said above lots of difference between traveling to the range with a few rounds of ammunition

To traveling on a train or boat or airoplane with others in the near vicinity

Until recently you needed a separate license to transport black powder

It's now on the same one

 

Some rules seem stupid until you think about them try taking a bottle of propane on a ferry

 

Sadly the rules mean it costs more for the end users

 

 

All the best

Of

[Continental Shooter]

Hi RB,

 

What i meant is a privately owned and authorised carrier, not any Joe Blog.

 

I know there are a few out there and BASC Scotland suggested a carrier but, p[possibly due to the low volume they never manage to call me back; surely, if i had a bigger order or more consistently spread out throughout the year, they will probably do business with me.

 

i don't want to be too pessimistic, but i can see we'll need sindacate to get things moving and spread the cost ...

 

I didn't know about SIARM. but all my parcels were correctly marked to the point that my first order required me to show up at customs to pick it up; thereafter i had no more issues with customs. What they said it was that the carrier increased the fee for hulls ...

 

Unfortunately, contrary to what happens in UK, i like weak primer so, for me is difficult to find primed cases with Fiocchi 615 ...

[kenholland]

vecton powder Folkestone engineering grab it while you can, have a look at web sight.

[Evilv]

Nitro powders are not explosive. That is why joe public can buy them and keep a decent quantity at home.

 

We transport far more flammable and dangerous materials like petrol and LPG around in huge quantities. Millions of us have ten gallons of petrol in a plastic tank parked on the drive or in a garage.

 

More and more stupid regulations are being chucked at shooters week by week. I phoned a local gunsmith about receiving a shotgun on my behalf from a person on this site who offered to RFD it up here to Newcastle, and the gunsmith said the police were increasing the regulations which meant I would have to send my certificate to the complete stranger so that he could write in the transfer section a line of details. Then he would send me the certificate back and the gunsmith at my end would release the gun to me...... What a lot of old b ,,,,ox. There was nothing wring before when two gunsmiths would arrange the matter between them and my certificate would be filled in at the receiving end. This is just obstruction for obstruction's sake. I checked with the Firearms department and teh guy there admitted the new arrangement would risk certificates being lost and stolen - SO WHAT IS THE POINT? Utter idiocy.

[rbrowning2]

Evilv, whilst it would be more convenient for us all if nitro was not classed as an explosive try telling that to the HSE the fact of the matter is that it is classified as a class 1 explosive, it may not be a relevant explosive so their is less control over who can buy it and how much you can have stored but the bottom line is no joe public cannot just buy it you need a SGC or FAC to possess it try reading ER 2014 it is all in the document.

 

As for the gun transfer process it has been discussed on the forum seach for it and you will then understand the logic behind it, even if it is again inconvenient for us to follow it.

[Evilv]

Evilv, whilst it would be more convenient for us all if nitro was not classed as an explosive try telling that to the HSE the fact of the matter is that it is classified as a class 1 explosive, it may not be a relevant explosive so their is less control over who can buy it and how much you can have stored but the bottom line is no joe public cannot just buy it you need a SGC or FAC to possess it try reading ER 2014 it is all in the document.

 

As for the gun transfer process it has been discussed on the forum seach for it and you will then understand the logic behind it, even if it is again inconvenient for us to follow it.

 

 

I'd like someone to provide me with the details of when there was last a disaster caused by transporting shooters powders about the country or when someone with the old style wood and brass furniture locked powder box ever blew up his neighbours because it wasn't made of plywood, divided into multiple sections and cost about £80.

 

The issue here is that a perfectly proper pastime is being regulated out of existence or affordability by quango generated gobbledegook. You might be fine with that.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Evilv